In-House Web Hosting or Outsource?

[Bojon Sluz]

I work for a company that hosts their own web site. We are planning to create five or six new sites. I don’t know anything about servers or hosting. Neither does anyone where I work, the guy who did know something left a long time ago. We have two people who know just enough to be dangerous but that’s all. They like the idea of hosting the sites our selves because we own the equipment and they assume it will be cheaper. (this company has little or no money to spend) Money is the real issue.

In my situation what are the advantages to hosting your own sites vs. having someone else host the sites?

What would you recomend and why?

Thank you for your time.

[qwerty]

If money is the issue, then yes, hosting it yourself will cost less... until something goes wrong. Then you're in for big trouble.

If you're going to host a site yourselves, you absolutely have to have someone there who's knowledgeable about servers -- especially when it comes to security. All you need is one hacker to get through and trash the site. They may deface it, crash it, or they might harvest confidential information out of it. And once you've been hacked, it'll cost an awful lot to come back from it. Moreover, what do you do when you experience a power failure? Do you have diesel generators that will keep your server running indefinitely?

Of course there are disadvantages to having someone else host the site too. You have to pay for it, of course (but it's less than you'd spend on hiring a full time administrator), and you have to be prepared to deal with their support people. But unless you really know what you're doing, it's too important to do it yourself and hope your luck holds.

[Bojon Sluz]

Thanks,

You’re right,

If you have any stories about things that went wrong with hosting your own website and how much it cost in time and money please post them. I know exactly how much outsourcing will cost.

Another expense that I know nothing about is training. I know that I’ll need to learn new things if we host the sites ourselves. I have no experience with servers; I don’t know the first thing about it. What will I need to learn? How long does it take to learn and how much does the training cost?

[WebSavvy]

Hi Bojon Sluz,

If you're interested in hosting your own sites on your own servers, it's the best way to go. (it's what I do also)

UNIX servers are the best. Make sure you have PHP & MySQL installed. You can find a colo facility for a reasonable fee, some only charge in the neighborhood of around $50 a month to colo your server.

Running the server is a breeze if you have WHM (webhost manager) and CPanel (for clients)

I've also used PLESK before (it's awful and very weird)

The colo company will setup the server for you, then all you have to do is login to your WHM panel and begin adding the domains you wish to host.

You setup a hosting package in WHM by assigning how much space and bandwidth. Then add the domain, auto-assigns an IP address, you select which hosting package you wish to assign that domain and WHM auto-fills the DNS records for you.

Then all you have to do is go to your domain registrar and point your site to the name servers of your server.

It's very, very easy and not as complicated as this all sounds. I own 8 servers of my own, and it's not that much to take care of or delegate.

If you have a good colo facility, whenever your servers need new hardware, they will install it/or update it (depending on your needs) for a small service fee.

Hope this info helps.

cheers
:cheers:

[Bojon Sluz]

Thanks, for the advice I sincerely appreciate it but unfortunately we will not be able to implement any of it.

Let me give some more background on my situation. We have a server that an armature built. It is in a closet in the office and is not going anywhere. They think that $8.00 a month is too expensive for outside web hosting. They would never pay $50 a month to colo our server or for a professional to setup the server properly. The company I work for says they have no money for IT and will only use people who are willing to work for free or small amounts of trade.

We had an e-mail glitch about a month ago so they found someone who was willing to work for trade to gain job experience. He spent a month on it and finally crashed the operating system last week. The server still refuses to start up. Now the same guy is reinstalling a windows operating system and trying to get it to work. This is the first server he has ever worked on. We still have no website or email at this time.

I truly believe this will lead to a disaster and I am trying to propose that we cut our losses and host our site with a professional service. The time wasted already would have paid for several years of hosting but my boss thinks that in the long run his plan will be less expensive.

Please help me out.

What I need is easy to understand reasons why this approach will never work.

Or how we can get it all to work perfectly forever for free.

Or why the expense of time spent fixing problems caused by incompetent work will out weigh the expense of having the site hosted by a pro.

Or why the expense of time spent training the web guy how to retrieve the server logs and statistics on a Windows server with no C-panel or web host manager will out weigh the expense of having the site hosted by a pro.

To sum it all up my boss knows nothing, and has no money to spend on IT.
I don’t know how to explain to him that keeping the server in the office and maintained by people who don’t know what they are doing is not as cheap or easy as he thinks.

Or maybe it is… I don’t know the first thing about this stuff. All I know is that I always use hosting services and everything is cheap, easy and reliable.

Thank you for your time and help with this.

[dragonlady7]

>To sum it all up my boss knows nothing

That's pretty common. My company wastes money like crazy in its quest to save money.
I wish you luck; it's very hard to overcome that mindset that it's cheaper to do it yourself. They just don't think about how much they're spending on time. And we have our share of cheap employees that cost the company more in errors and lost time than a real qualified person would.
So... Really, I wish you luck, and if you figure out how to convince the boss to do the more practical thing, let us know how you did it!! There's always some hope-- I got the boss to buy a more expensive software suite so that I could do my job better, and I give thanks for it almost daily. It would have been impossible for me to do the project I'm doing now with the old, cheap, inferior software we were using.

[Advisor]

Sounds like you've basically already answered your own questions.

You can do it for free as you are, and have it not work. Or you can pay to have it done right.

Easy enough to understand, and their choice to make.

Good luck, whichever method you choose.

Jill

[Bojon Sluz]

Thanks Jill,

I guess I'm not very good at explaining this in such a way that my boss will understand.

I do know that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

I just don’t know all the technical details about the potential difficulties and hazards of having an armature set up the server in the office.

I don’t know what to ask the server dude about what he’s doing.

I know that I’ll need to be able make forms work and check the site statistics but if you don’t know what you’re talking about it’s easy for someone to give you a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

He’s got the boss convinced that every thing will be fine.

I am convinced that the server guy is an idiot and it’s going to be a disaster but I can’t explain why.

Is everything going to be fine or is this a disaster waiting to happen.

[Advisor]

Beats me, not my forte!

I've moved this thread to the server and admin thread, so hopefully you'll get some additional feedback from others who know that aspect of the biz.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Bojon! :hi:

hmm. In your case I'd tell 'you' to trust your instincts. You said you thought he did not know what he was doing so tell your boss that. You don't need to be a server guru to do that. If your boss knows you and trusts you, then he will listen to you.

But I have to tell you, if you, your boss, or anyone else but this guy knows about the administration of a server, that should be enough for your boss. Tell him to co-locate the server somewhere and give a "good" administrator a little money per month to run it. There is Much more to it than getting forms to work right. :)

Good luck.

[Bojon Sluz]

Thanks Jill

[Bojon Sluz]

What more is there?

I'm still in the dark.

I don't know what to ask so that I don't get screwed.

We aren’t going to get a good administrator.

No one knows anything about servers. We have no IT guy.

We are not going to co locate the server – they built a special closet for it in the office.

When I express my concerns, I’m asked about specific issues but I don’t know enough about this stuff. All I can do is ask general questions but all I get back is BS and mumbo jumbo.

The boss knows that I am a designer not an IT guy and takes this guys word for everything, partly because he’s willing to work for free and how are we to know if he’s full of S*** or not.

What are some specific questions that I should be asking?

[Advisor]

Again, you've already asked and answered the specific questions:
We aren’t going to get a good administrator.

No one knows anything about servers. We have no IT guy.
And your server and sites are not up and running, right? What makes them think they ever will be if there's nobody to do it? Servers don't suddenly start working without someone who knows how to run them.

[qwerty]

I have to go back to my original point. As much as I respect Deb's (Savvy1's) opinion, I don't think it's easy to host a site on your own without any experience. Easy for her, maybe... not so easy for me.

I used to be (among other things) the network administrator for a small company. The bosses knew I knew nothing about this kind of thing, and they sent me to a couple of courses, but that only helped a little. I had things up and running, and I was generally able to get things going again if anything went wrong (often by trial and error), but who knows if I was doing things right? Maybe everything I did slowed down the network (it was pretty slow) a little more.

Obviously, they were looking to save some money. They had me doing a bunch of different jobs there, and we managed. They actually thought I was some sort of wizard with this thing -- they still call me with questions now and then. But we did not host our own web site. It was our main source of new business, and there was no way they could afford to take a chance on letting me screw that up. So while they wouldn't pay for a real network admin, they paid for hosting their web sites.

[Bojon Sluz]

Hi Jill,

This guy talks a good story but it’s all Mumbo Jumbo and double talk. They think he is doing a good job but in reality he’s screwed everything up. He just blames the last guy that didn’t know anything either.

Hi qwerty,

That’s the situation here, but they aren’t going to pay for any classes.

They think they’re going to get something for nothing.

I think they’re wasting their time.

I don’t know what to ask to prove this guy is an idiot or on the right track.

Specifically, what should I be asking this guy?

Thanks for your help.

[foghorn]

Hosting your own sites can be one of the most expensive undertakings you will ever do, and very frustrating. It may sound like you are "saving" $20 or $30 a month, but it can end up costing you a hundred times that much in downtime, and in your own time that you will have to invest in solving problems that will inevitably come up. If you want to do it for fun or to learn, that's one thing. But to host your own sites to save money? No way.

I've seen people who do it full time, and still aren't very good at it, even after spending months on the learning curve. Hosting is cheap these days. Get somebody good to do it for you, and give them the headaches...

[bojon]

Thanks Foghorn,

That’s what I was thinking.

I was hired about a month ago to design and market a new website for them. In the two years that they have had their website up they have never been able to check the statistics from the site. We have no idea how many people visit our site or where they come from or what they are searching for when they find us.

When I ask the server guy how I’ll be able to do check the statistics after he gets the website back up he just gives me a bunch of mumbo jumbo about accessing a database.

I don’t know what the hell he’s talking about.

I don’t think I’m asking the right questions.
I’m not specific enough.

I wish I could say to the boss…

“If we are going to host the website ourselves in the office we will need this piece of equipment, and these software packages. We will also need to learn how to do this that and the other thing. Or else this, that and the other thing could happen witch will cost this much money and waste that much time.”

Someone told them that if they want to do it right they will need to host the website them selves so that they have better control. They also said that hosting your own website is less expensive as well as prestigious. Now they are determined to make it work because they have invested so much time and money in it and they still think it’s prestigious and cost effective in the long run. They also think that because we have the equipment, we should use it or it’s a waste of money.

I guess if we had a sewing machine in the office we’d all be sewing our own uniforms together because we have a perfectly good machine and we wouldn’t want it to go to waste. Then I guess we should start raising chickens and growing our own food.

But anyway, I still don’t know what to say.
All I can do is offer my semi-uneducated opinion about web hosting.

What would you ask someone who wanted to set up a server for you. What features and software would you need to get your job done and why.

Thanks.

[qwerty]

You mentioned that he was installing Windows on the server, although I don't know which Windows OS in particular, but that means the site is going to be hosted on MS's web server, IIS. It's going to generate log files, but it's a huge pain to go through those without first processing them through some log file analysis software.

If you got the site hosted, the hosts would most likely provide you with something basic for free, so you'd be able to check the stats online. But it probably won't be sufficient.

However, whether you host or not, there are pretty good free tools out there. They're generally not as good as the expensive ones like NetTracker or WebTrends, but I'm currently testing out a free app called SmarterStats (http://www.smartertools.com/). You might want to look into that, whichever way you end up going with the hosting situation.

I don't know what your server guy meant when he was talking about a database... unless he thinks any file containing data is a database. Somehow I doubt he meant that he was going to build a client/server application for you to track the site's stats.

And "prestigious"?? What do they mean by that? Very few people will ever know who's hosting your site, unless you go with some awful free host that throws their logo onto the site and starts serving pop-up ads on it.

[ihelpyou]

Hey bojon,

Yours is the classic case of a company who has no clue and will never get it and will never succeed. Any smart person understands these days you have to spend money to make money. Those who don't are living in 1995 still. Unless your boss suddenly sees the light of day and wakes up one day to smell the coffee, you will drown in sorrow and lost monies.

If I were you?.... I'd be finding another employer, and quickly. Sorry, but that's the bottom line.

[chrishirst]

Hi bojon,

I was a system admin for 5 years keeping 5 servers up and running (2 M$ Exchange 2 File servers 1 webserver) and there was very rarely any peace.

I now work for myself and run 1 webserver with 1 client site left on it and my demo sites and that one server takes up 1 maybe 2 hrs a day, checking logs for the latest in script attacks, making sure nothing has hung, check the AV, check for the latest updates check the firewall logs etc etc, my outsourced sites on the other hand cost £130 a year (~$190) each and take absolutely none of my time up, The sites do but somebody pays me to do that, The last site will be moving off my server next month and I can relax a little because it won't have to be up 24hrs a day 7 days a week, that's someone else's problem now!

Outsource definitely for 1 site.


Chris

[JuniorHarris]

My automobile needs repair work...I can take it to the shade tree mechanic or I can take it to a professional. One will typically guarantee the work and complete in a timely fashion, however the other may not!~

It's like using those free web host providers...you get what you pay for. And when something goes wrong, do you have any recourse...after all it is free?

If the site is only a hobby site, then by all means continue to use the chinese-fire-drill administration you have in place...however, with intermittent down time, it will most like never perform well (not that you can even check)...as well as possibly inhibit indexing by the engines.

What happens when the power goes out or the internet connection is down? Most [good] host providers have power generators as well as redundant backbone connections to the internet. Another question is bandwidth....which would be an issue if/when the site ever took off.

OutSource!~

[foghorn]

I had the same thought. Who in their right might would change the transmission in their car, unless they just loved the work. Personally, if I did it the car would never run again. And it would eventually be that way if I started dinking around with hosting. No one can be an expert at everything, except of course, company vice presidents.

[webgator]

If the website and/or email is vital to your business, than hosting it yourself without any expertise is completely foolish. If the websites aren't important enough to either hire someone or pay money to a web hosting company, then maybe they should shut them all down and forget about being on the internet.

We do seo, design and ecommerce for clients that suddenly look at thier bills and ask why they can't do it themselves and when they try to, they make a colosal mess of everything. We personally outsource all our IT stuff because no one here knows enough about servers.

This attitude that you can do everything yourself is counter productive, that is why there are experts. I wouldn't attempt to fix my own electrical work or drill my own teeth for cavities, and forget about trying to fix the car...yet your boss thinks web
hosting is easy.

Ok, enough of my rant for the day.

[quickcat]

Hi guys,

I just got a great idea how this business can save $$$. Go out of business! They are halfway there already - no email, no website.

They need to take those really bold next steps - why pay office rent when there may be a handy cave nearby, or build your own lean-to, it's easy! Who needs a phone - smoke signals are much cheaper and a great way to recycle rubbish.

Let's face it - the only people who work for free are the ones who can't get paid to do the work. I might put in a few hours on a proposal for a large potential client for free, but when I can't get paid for my time and skills, I know it is time to do something else.

In a situation like this, your best choice is to RUN!

Kathy

[TiMoGo]

I have been self employed for many years. It is mainly because I would have told my boss what a complete idiot he/she is being! Why anybody would work for that kind of jerk is beyond me.

So, how do you fix the problem? What do you tell your boss? Don't tell him/her anything.... Just find the local newspaper classifieds and read them at work. Nobody will know you aren't doing anything. But if somebody does notice, tell them you are looking for people that are advertising how they like to work for free and know everything. (I swear that section is in their someplace).

Sorry, just my unsolicited 2 cents. 8)

[dustbuster]

Don't know if this is too late to post for your problem bojon but here it goes (if the dude hasn't got the server up and running by now it should be pretty obvious that he doesn't know what he's doing.).

Questions to ask
These are very basic questions which if not answered or waffled on can shed some light on their ability.

What Operating System is the server running?
If they just say 'Windows' it's not good enough. The most common OSs for Windows webservers are
-Windows NT 4
-Windows 2000 Server

What webserver will you be using?
IIS is the most common webserver used on windows.
Apache can also be used.

What will you be installing support for?
Some things to consider you might need
- SSI (Server Side Includes)
- SSL 2.0 (Secure Socket Layer)
- MSSQL (Database Engine)
- MySQL (Database Engine)
- ASP (Progamming Language)
- PHP (Programming Language)
- Perl (Programming Language)

What FTP service will you be installing?
FTP (File Transfer Protocol) is used to transfer files to the server from remote machines. If he gives you a specific name search for it on Google.

Various Stuff
You may want to ask if the server will have a web-based e-mail client as this is sometimes handy.

If something goes wrong will this person be able to fix it or at least tell you what's wrong and how long it will take? If they can't do this within 24hrs they are not qualified.

If your boss really wants to have the server in the office a proffessional administrator is the best way to do it. This person could be paid on an 'as needed' basis in case of emergencies or routine maintenance.

If you have concens with the anwers just post the questions here and what reply you got.

D.

[captainccs]

Outsourcing is the way to go, no questions about it. Not only do you get knowledgeable people running the servers, you can pick a top notch datacenter with very fast connectivity to the Internet, something that an in-house server is not likely to have.

I would pick a server that runs the best open source software:

Linux, Apache, php, MySQL, phpMyAdmin, and cPanel

That, of course, precludes any Windows box. Mind you, even if you do this there will be plenty for you to learn to run the web sites: site design, SEO, etc, etc.

You can get top notch shared hosting for $35 a month for all your 5 or 6 web sites, I would not go with the real cheap ones because you are liable to be disappointed. The guys who host my sites, HTTPme.com, are top notch and offer all the above. I outsource my web hosting! :)

Edited to add the hosting company's domain

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums DustBuster! :hi:

Thanks for the very good post!

captainccs, sure you can post the link! :)

[captainccs]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
captainccs, sure you can post the link! :) Thanks Doug!

I'm very happy with HTTPme.com, a top notch hosting service with a top notch community of people helping each other. :thumb: