DMOZ Beta

[newriver]

Oh Boy!
Looks like http://www.alltheweb.com has some DMOZ beta thing happening currently.
I just searched for "disability insurance" to check rankings (cough...#1) and saw they had DMOZ category beta test links up in the results.

[MsSearch]

Very interesting...i'll have to keep my :eyes: on this one...

(BTW, NewRiver, this is not the Brag Podium :cheers: --but I've just found a #1 ranking for one of my keywords...i usually don't check FAST )

[markymark]

These aren't DMOZ as far as I can tell. They are more like what Wisenut and Teoma are doing with their category link thingies.

They are also reconfiguring searches to include common phrases which they didn't before. IE: If you do a search for UK search engine positioning , you will see a box on the left explaining what they have done and giving you the option to search again without this (default) feature.

These are interesting developments to say the least. Hopefully this will increase the relevancy of results which has always been Fast's weak point.

[Hope]

Definately NOT dmoz. These are Wisenut results. I had never paid much attention to them before, but I think I will have to now.

<wonder if I should start bragging again>

[MsSearch]

Wisenut displays snippets of text from my page whereas FAST/alltheweb displays my DMOZ description (this only happens for some of my client sites)...I haven't been 'keeping up' with FAST lately, but would anybody have an explanation for this?

[markymark]

These aren't Wisenut results either - but they are a similar thing to what both they and Teoma (and Northern Light before them) are doing.

I haven't seen any ODP results for my clients coming up nor for myself.

But this default attempt at intelligent searching is what is interesting me the most. Creating advanced searches by default based on what Fast know to be commonly used phrases (ie: uk "search engine" positioning) is a good move on Fast's part and I think it may bring up more relevant results. I haven't looked into it in any depth yet, but we desperately need a decent competitor to Google in the pure SE stakes.

[newriver]

And you people call yourselves SEO's...ha!<just kidding>
These are most definately DMOZ category links.

Example Study:

Beta FAST Topics:

Human Resources > Health and Welfare Plans Insurance > Multi-Line > US > Wisconsin Business > Major Companies > Publicly Trad...
Insurance > Employee Benefits > US > Group Insurance > Multi-Line > US > California Insurance > Health
Insurance > Multi-Line > US > Multi-State Legal Information > Social Security Law Insurance > Carriers > Life and Health


These are the beta category links that come up for a "disability insurance" search. When you click on a category link, you will see the sites listed in that category. You will not see the dmoz editor description, but the meta info instead.

As an example, search for disability insurance at http://www.alltheweb.com and click on the category link Insurance>Health

you will see http://www.guardiandibrokerage.com http://www.disabilitybenefit.com and some critical cash site. This is a category I edit in DMOZ, and these are the sites in it. Don;t be mislead because the title and description do not match the title and description in dmoz, they are the sites in the category (data is a bit old), but with the sites meta info showing in fast.

[newriver]

BTW, how can you look at the category's showing and not recognize them as DMOZ?

[ihelpyou]

wrong thread. :rolleyes:

[ihelpyou]

Very strange what they are doing. I cannot figure out exactly what it is yet. Although, the way it is layed out, I cannot see many searchers actually clicking when the results are right below for the sites. Will have to watch this closely.

[markymark]

New River,

You may be partially right. However, this is far from the whole story as to take my example again - uk search engine positioning - there are category links to a folder called Engine Positioning Software, G-Vis search . I am fairly certain that G-Vis don't actually have their own category in ODP, as much as they would like to.

There are ODP structures appearing, but are these actually ODP sites ? I can't get any of the categories I edit to appear, so I await your confirmation.

[newriver]

Just spent a couple hours testing theories, this is what I have found. This is quite interesting!!

You enter a search at Fast.
The beta section lists two things:
A. DMOZ categories they feel are relevant. You can tell they are dmoz cats by the >symbol between words.
B. Relevant sites grouped in some new formula I have not cracked yet. Relevant site groupings are separated with commas.

Take his example of uk search engine positioning:

Beta FAST Topics:

UK > Internet > Search Engine Submitting
Internet > Web Promotion > SE Submitting
Engine Positioning Uk, Web Site
Engine Positioning Software, G-vis Search
Engine Submission, Explodeit Search
Engine Placement Positioning Courses
Engine Positioning Services, Active Media
Uk Search, Engine Positioning, Uk Affiliat...
Enhancement Uk Promotion

The bolded section is dmoz data, the italics are the second formula we're working on.

Take the first bolded link of UK>Internet>Search Engine Submitting while the text of the link does not match word for word the entire cat from DMOZ, it contains what Fast beliebves to be the relevant words from the cat. Match the results from that link to this.
all the web link to the first dmoz link
http://www.alltheweb.com/search?q=uk+search+engine+positioning&c=web&l=any&av=&cn=cs4&cr=S.0

to

http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/Web_Design_and_Development/Promotion/Search_Engine_Submitting_and_Positioning/Submitting_Services/Premium_Services/M/

[markymark]

New River,

you can call me Mark - I prefer this to he ;) . Are you sure that the second link you posted is the one you meant to as this covers only companies beginning with M.

I am in agreement that the first categories with the > symbol seem to be Dmoz but I want confirmation.

Hang on and I'll be back soon.

[markymark]

Okay, mate, I think you may be right. Hard to tell in my category as the same sites turn up over and over for search engine positioning, but it looks about right to me.

I'm still more interested in the fact that Fast are re-writing searches by default to include popular phrases. I think AV tried this not that long back, but with poor results. This is potentially a very positive development in my view.

[ihelpyou]

I think I know what the other listings are other than the DMOZ cats. Fast has a beta thing going now that allows sites to pay a fee to be listing on the top of results. Does anyone think this could be it? I am thinking so.

Mel might know as I believe he is a tester.

[markymark]

The Fast beta program is just a paid inclusion program with a neat internal site search thing thrown in, it doesn't affect placement. Unless, y'all know something I don't. I come up in a few of these categories as do my clients and I didn't join the Fast Beta thingy when I had the opportunity.

[newriver]

Interesting thought of paid listers....my search term only has dmoz data in it.....does anybody have thoughts as to how we could verify this?

[MsSearch]

Found this on alltheweb.com.....


Beta FAST Topics result navigation
We have added technology that analyzes the results from a query and dynamically groups them into categories similar to open directory when appropriate or to dynamically created categories. This is also a feature that will be made available to the OEM customers in the next release. For the user it means improved relevancy and ease of navigation. They can see all of a certain type of result in one place. More information on dynamic clustering (http://www.alltheweb.com/info/new-1101.html#fasttopicsqa).


Gives insight into what is happening at FAST and the changes they are implementing...

[ihelpyou]

Very good MsSearch! Seems to explain a few things.

[newriver]

Interesting move on the part of allthweb. Recently I was wondering what the effect the way lycos displays results would have on alltheweb, this is a great move to differentiate their results from Lycos.

I hope alltheweb can use lycos much like google used yahoo to gain ground.

I got a news flash for you alltheweb, just update your database more often than google, and you'll do it!!

[ihelpyou]

Good analogy newriver about google and yahoo and alltheweb and lycos. They should do that. Would be very good.

[janardan]

I spent some time on Fast, DMOZ and Google comparing, and have an idea. It can be that now Fast includes into their beta directory only the sites that are present in the major directories (probably ensuring their quality in this way). Mostly, they are from ODP and, consequently, from Google. Here I found that ODP sometimes refuses to recognize their listings, but if Google shows backward links of ODP categories, they, of course, exist (I checked it too). But Fast doesn't take ODP titles and descriptions. Fast uses page's HTML title and meta description. In case there's no meta description it uses the description from ODP listings. There was a case when a site had a Yahoo! description - as I saw from backward links, there were no ODP and Google inclusions.

Hope, it can be interesting but, of course, requires deeper investigations.:read:

[nudetravel]

FAST's beta Topics definitely include the ODP cat where my site is "cooled" (quick brag) if you click on the topic link, and then click on "more results like these" it is pure DMOZ. However, I don't know how they are coming up with the top couple of results before you click on the more results?