Why should I submit

[staple]

I see someone on this site considers this an "up and coming" directory, but I currently see no reason to submit especially when it cost!

Most of the interior pages have extremely low PRs - thats not worth paying for in my opinion. Now if it was like dmoz where the interior page was a 6 or 7 then sure, but I dont see that happening on any of these so called "up and coming" directories.

I assume they are all operated by someone here?

Im not trying to be a dick, just not sure why it would be worth it to pay for inclusion in this and similar directories.

[Farhan]

You can become an editor and submit your website for free. A directory link is a link and helps in your overall optimization strategy. I couldn’t find the paid option, where's it?

[staple]

Uhmmm it would be located anywhere you see "ADD URL" heh!

As for this being a good link because its another directory - I would argue that unless its returning a decent PR its of no use.

Most people prefer to use search box forms rather than dig 4 to 5 pages deep into a directory.

Furthermore Id argue that the $40 you spend here is likely to produce very little traffic! Thus spend your money somewhere else - inktomi maybe heck you may see a few hits from them anyways.

[MakeMeTop]

I always submit to JoeAnt. Trust me, I wouldn't do it if I didn't think it was worth it. It is!

Fast inclusion, gets crawled by other SEs, some categories are now showing up in my backlinks and you get some (not much) traffic. What more could you want?

[ihelpyou]

Hi staple:
As for this being a good link because its another directory - I would argue that unless its returning a decent PR its of no use.

Most people prefer to use search box forms rather than dig 4 to 5 pages deep into a directory.

Furthermore Id argue that the $40 you spend here is likely to produce very little traffic! Thus spend your money somewhere else - inktomi maybe heck you may see a few hits from them anyways.
You would be wrong by giving PR more stress than what it deserves.

Digging into a directory is not the issue when you submit to a directory.

Sure, you can spend $40 elsewhere, but where can you spend it "one" time and be listed forever? You can't, except to directories.

[staple]

Why in the world would anyone pay $40 for half a dozen hits strung out over a year?

Come on - are newbies actually buying what your selling?

MakeMeTop - if your wasting your time submitting to directories like this Id assume your no where near the top.

Listed forever? It seems they are attempting to set up an editor structure similar to dmoz and thus it will eventually be subjected (if it ever would take off by chance) to the same editor manipulation.

I however dont see any of these so called "up and coming" directories every taking off - sorry.

[Hbird64]

Staple,

you don't need to submit your site to our directory, we are not waiting for your submissions. Other people are very happy with us.
I think when you have 3,000,000 impressions and 500,000 uniques a month you are up and coming.
Another thing is how many hits to you receive directly through DMOZ? People find DMOZ links in Google and then go through the site/page they were looking for. We have on the moment I write this 159.000 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=+site:www.joeant.com+joeant) links in Google.

Several pages have a PR0 because we use several ways to build an url. The links from the frontpage don't have a / at the end, but a sessionID, we use that for tracking. If you add a / you get most times a PR. Try for example http://www.joeant.com/DIR/cat/5720 (PR0) and http://www.joeant.com/DIR/cat/5720/ (PR5).
We have also a nice way to get backlinks for referrals to JoeAnt.com. Link to a specific site and each topic that a visitor through your site visits get a referral to your site. See referrals on our info pages.
If you search the backlinks in Google for Mom2Mom List (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=link%3Awww.mom2momlist.com) you'll find 5 backlinks from JoeAnt.com.

Hugo

[ihelpyou]

Hi staple, I feel you are confused as to the purpose of directories and why you should submit to them. I can only tell you to read up in here all you can.

But yes, don't submit if you don't want to submit. How does any site on the internet get to be successful? Unless you are a large company and are now jumping on the internet, it takes along time to become successful. You don't build a site and all the sudden have one million visitors flocking to it. You are saying that clicks and traffic from a directory is an important thing. Well, I don't really care if I ever get one visitor because of a link in JoeAnt. (I have) That's not why my sites are in there.

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by staple
I see someone on this site considers this an "up and coming" directory ... I assume they are all operated by someone here?No, these forums don't benefit financially from promoting JoeAnt. And if you want to be picky over Doug's English (hint: not enough hours in the day), JoeAnt could be said to be "up and coming" according to its Alexa traffic stats (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=medium&compare_sites=&url=http://www.joeant.com/#top).

It's up to you whether or not you spend the $40.

Originally posted by MakeMeTop
Fast inclusion, gets crawled by other SEs, some categories are now showing up in my backlinks and you get some (not much) traffic. What more could you want? Some (more) traffic? :D

[Hbird64]

According our stats so far this month we're gonna make 1,000,000 uniques and 4 million search queries this month.

Hugo

[JoeAnt]

Staple,

Why ask for opinions if you're not willing to listen to what they have to say? Your mind is made up. That leaves us with the motive of your post. While it would be nice to convince you differently, you'll never know whether or not we're worth it until your site has been indexed with JoeAnt.com. How's this deal? Reply to this post with your URL and as long as it complies with our guidelines, I'll add it to JoeAnt.com. We'll list it for two months. If you like the traffic, come back as an editor and resubmit it, or you can chose to use our Speed-Pass option. The decision will be yours.

[Hbird64]

We removed this week the SessionID's on the front page because they were making JoeAnt too slow. Also the many visitors do, but that we don't see as a problem (yet) :D

The spiders can now visit all pages and this should lead also to better PR's for each page. http://www-va.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=+site:www.joeant.com+joeant shows already 169,000 links today.

Hugo

[Quadrille]

According our stats so far this month we're gonna make 1,000,000 uniques and 4 million search queries this month.
All that tells us is that the SEO industry has way too much time on it's hands ...

As a directory, as Doug and others have pointed out, it will be a long time before this directory has a real value to the searcher (unless a partnership is formed (as ODP / Google).

So if we're being honest, the reason people pay their bucks is to get that extra link; no more, no less, no bs required.

And that's fine; people who have the money must make a judgement on value, and many very experienced folk are paying.

The concern is - and this is where my point is much wider than JoeAnt - how long will it last?

Directories are popping up on a weekly basis, all asking for about $40.00; most with acres of empty categories, and few with enough (genuine) visitors to shake a stick at. By genuine, I mean searchers for info, not SEO checking on self or competition.

Surely there must come a point that Google (and others) will say "Enough Already?" - and it is a legitimate question; Does the Internet need hundreds of directories, all containing SEO-nurtured sites and little else?

Please note, I'm asking because I'm interested, and I'm posting in this thread because it seems the most appropriate out of all the directory forum threads I've looked at - and I know the JoeAnt folk don't mind getting right to the point! ;)

[Glo]

First you are missing the fact that anyone can get a listing without paying in dollars. It will cost them the time it takes to join, submit their site(s), and wait for them to be reviewed, then make any changed that might be required. So, the money issue for getting a listing on JoeAnt is just another option, unless the sites owner is trying to get an affiliate driven site listed. They have only one option and that is to pay for a listing in the Independent Business Affiliates section of JoeAnt.

Directories are popping up on a weekly basis, all asking for about $40.00; most with acres of empty categories, and few with enough (genuine) visitors to shake a stick at. By genuine, I mean searchers for info, not SEO checking on self or competition.

I absolutely agree. JoeAnt should be focusing on the end user, which is the average surfer, not the average SEO and/or Webmaster, though both can and should benefit from what JoeAnt has to offer. The average surfer would benefit from having a well organized area for them to find relevant information on any subject they might be looking for and the SEO/Webmaster community will get direct traffic as a result.

I believe that most directories started out with the average surfer in mind. However, I also believe they all have failed in drawing the average surfer to their directories, even the ODP has failed in getting and keeping Internet users. Even the most novice Internet user has heard of search engines, though few really know how to use them. Some will know about the directories associated with free email, message boards, and free home pages like Yahoo and a few others. But they still don't know how to use a directory and most just use the search feature. They haven't realized the benefit of using a directory because most directories do not come with directions. ;)

I believe that if a directory wants to be viable to the average Internet user, they will have to supply them with something more than a well organized list of Web sites just to get them to the site. Then they will need to educate them on how to use the directory in a way that is easy and satisfying.

Does the Internet need hundreds of directories, all containing SEO-nurtured sites and little else?

To put it bluntly, no but most directories do not depend on SEO/Webmaster submissions. Well, the free submit major players don't. Editors can hunt down and list sites without ever knowing the owner and most free, human edited directories encourage editors to add sites they find.

Will they last? Most won't, in my opinion. JoeAnt is hear to stay and will continue to evolve. Of course, I would say that since it's a project I believe in and have invested a huge amount of time in. Others will continue to grow and will make it if they focus on their potential users, make them a priority, and give them what they want.

What does the average user want? Different folks want different things and no directory and/or Web site can supply everyone with what they want. I, personally, don't know what the average user wants but I have some ideas that may be explored further someday. Directories will have to become much more creative in the future if they want to become a major player in an ever changing environment.

Just my 2 cents worth. Good questions, Quadrille! :cheers:

[Bernard]

Originally posted by Hbird64
We removed this week the SessionID's on the front page ...

Not sure how I missed that a week ago. Great news! :cheers:

[MC]

Just my 2 cents worth
Nah - I would certainly value it much higher!!! :) To put it simply - I couldn't have put it better...

Just two comments:
All that tells us is that the SEO industry has way too much time on it's hands ...

The implication, if I understand correctly, is that SEO check the position of their site in the directory. If so - they REALLY are wasting the time - the position is fixed anyway!
Surely there must come a point that Google (and others) will say "Enough Already?"
Enough WHAT exactly? Will Google BAN directories?? Will they blacklist them? Ot just legislate against volunteering to work for one? Don't see that happening any day now.

IMHO. a site (and I mean ANY site) will survive if there are enough users that support it. It's that simple. Based on the figures hbird64 published - Joeant certainly has that. :cool:

MC

[Glo]

MC, I think what Quadrille was referring to when he/she wrote "Surely there must come a point that Google (and others) will say "Enough Already?'" is that Google might get tired of indexing every page of a directory because it can become redundant, especially with all the new directories popping up. Instead, Google and others may just spider the main page of a directory and leave out the internal pages. Not saying that will happen, only that I believe that is what Quadrille is eluding to in his/her comment.

Edited to add: Thanks for compliment, MC! :)

[MC]

Glo, predicting what Google will/will not do is harder that winning the lottery :)

I may have missed / misunderstood what Quadrille said, but however I look at it - it doesn't sound plausible.

Sure, it is POSSIBLE that Google will decide to do something of that nature programatically, but it will be a major shift in policy. There are many problems in implementing it, none of them trivial. Perhaps the fundamental one is 'what's a directory'? When does a collection of 'links' pages become a directory?

It is also POSSIBLE that Google will hand-select 'undesirable sites' and ban them individually. As a dominant force (not to say monopoly) they can do that too, no? Should that happen, the Internet will have a very different landscape indeed. :cool:

MC

[Quadrille]

Enough WHAT exactly? Will Google BAN directories?? Will they blacklist them? Ot just legislate against volunteering to work for one? Don't see that happening any day now.
Calm down, calm down ... I was - as others spotted - alluding to the possibility that Google et al may someday decide to treat at least some directories as portals / link exchanges.

I am not saying this will happen, but as the number of directories is increasing rapidly, with no evidence of a growing directory usage, then I'd advise against dismissing the possibility. I raise it as a possibility - and a question ...

IMHO. a site (and I mean ANY site) will survive if there are enough users that support it. It's that simple. Based on the figures hbird64 published - Joeant certainly has that.
Sorry, but as a business model, that falls rather short. Business sites need dollars, and that does not necessarily increase in direct proportion to users.

As it happens, JoeAnt is one of very few directories that does have unique features, and I'd guess it is one of those least likely to be burned if there's fallout (even safer if they tie up a few deals with major sites, but I guess that's another story).

Sure, it is POSSIBLE that Google will decide to do something of that nature programatically, but it will be a major shift in policy. There are many problems in implementing it, none of them trivial. Perhaps the fundamental one is 'what's a directory'? When does a collection of 'links' pages become a directory?
Not so sure. Google has routinely decided to exclude whole classes of site on the basis that their only purpose is promotion of other sites. When you look at some directories, can you really say it ain't so? Technically, it's a doddle; the only issue is where to place the line. 'Twas ever thus.

As I said, I'm raising this because I'm interested; I'd have thought that it was an issue of some concern to anyone supporting a 'useful' directory - Just as every site manager asks the question "How do I make my site special", I'd suggest every directory manager must be asking themselves "How do I make my directory useful"

And I repeat, I'm not taking a dig at JoeAnt; but there doesn't seem to be a 'general' directories forum.

[altyfc]

Originally posted by Hbird64
According our stats so far this month we're gonna make 1,000,000 uniques and 4 million search queries this month.

Hugo

That's going some... well done!

That was obviously some time ago now... what are you up to these days?

Keep up the good work

Aaron

[Quadrille]

The implication, if I understand correctly, is that SEO check the position of their site in the directory. If so - they REALLY are wasting the time - the position is fixed anyway!

Ah, but don't forget the daily searchking to see how competitors are placed. Sorry, I think I meant 'searching' ;)

[merrick_lozano]

Originally posted by Hbird64
We removed this week the SessionID's on the front page because they were making JoeAnt too slow. Also the many visitors do, but that we don't see as a problem (yet) :D

The spiders can now visit all pages and this should lead also to better PR's for each page. http://www-va.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=+site:www.joeant.com+joeant shows already 169,000 links today.

Hugo

Glad you removed the session ID's, most of the categories on the homepage now have the PageRank they deserve, which then trickles down to other pages.

[Jolly Beggarman]

Alexa only works if you click and download their toolbar and that is the only way you get your site up!! and there is alot of fraud clicks going on to get their sites to the top.. I feel there is no merit in Alexa stats!

JB

[Glo]

I feel there is no merit in Alexa stats!
Okay, but what does Alexa's stats have to do with this thread?

[Jolly Beggarman]

Until I said something there was a comment on the first page from you guys bragging about Alexa results..... But since you edited your comment that was on the first page of this thread!!! I see your asking what my comment has to do with this thread... I was answering someone from JoeAnt's comment who was bragging about their Alexa results.. thats all"

Alexa is the biggest manipulative site on the internet, and anyone who would rely on that info. is fooling themselves and going to make a bad decision!!! plus anyone can get top results with enough Alexa toolbars...

So to answer your question there was a comment on the first page but since removed after my comment!! hmmmm!!

JB~:cheers:

[Glo]

No one from JoeAnt edited out anything from their posts regarding Alexa. I think you misread or misunderstood a post made by Alan Perkins, who did comment on Alexa's stats on the first page of this thread. Alan is not a JoeAnt representative. All the stats boasting coming from JoeAnt was done by Hugo (Hibird) and he used our own stats record, not Alexa's.

Since there were no specific comments to Alan's post , I doubt anyone here is placing more value on Alexa than it warrants.