Recommended Australia Search Engine for PPC Ad

[Ridwan]

Hi People,

Could some one provide me a list of best performance search engine/directory in Australia for PPC Advertisment.

What would be their position compare PPC Adv in Google as example.

Regards,
Ridwan
http://www.cncdesign.com.au

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Ridwan! :hi:

I don't know but maybe one of our many Aussie members can help you out in here.

[Kal]

Hi Ridwan :hi:

I would say stick with Google AdWords and target your ads to Google Australia users. As far as I know, Google is the most popular search engine in Australia and far outperforms any of the others. I think you can create a direct account with Google Australia if you want certain sponsorship category exposure, or you can set up your Google AdWords account with Google.com to only be shown to searchers from Australia (whether they use Google.com or Google.com.au).

For a while there, you could get good results from a PPC LookSmart Australia listing because of the results being shown on NineMSN, but now that LookSmart is ending their relationship with MSN this month, I'm not sure how long the NineMSN relationship will continue for or whether it would be worthwhile. I haven't used Overture in a while so I don't know if this is possible, but if they allow regional targeting, you could set up a PPC campaign with them to target Australian searchers using their partner sites (e.g. Yahoo.com.au etc).

I am not aware of any other high performing PPC players in Australia at this stage. Sounds like a business opportunity! Hope this helps.

[Chris_D]

Hi Ridwan,

Kal's summary is spot on. The only thing worth adding is that the Australian Market will get interesting in about 2 weeks time, when Overture Australia has its official launch (on 19 Jan I think).....

Competition.

Chris_D

Sydney Australia

[Kal]

ooooh that's right! I forgot all about Overture Oz launching. Interesting times indeed ;)

[Dez]

Hi,

as a newbie here I hope you won't mind my suggesting that you might
perhaps want to consider a local Australian Search Engine?

http://WebSearch.COM.AU

recently completed development of a self serve Sponsor Listings + Text Box
ad system, for as little as AUD$0.30c per keywork / phrase targeted pay per
click for a google(tm) like Text Box, or AUD$0.60c per keywork / phrase
targeted click for Sponsored Listings.

Cheers,

Dez

ps: yes, I am "affiliated" per se, with http://WebSearch.COM.AU

[Chris_D]

Hi Dez,

I'd be interested in getting some more information on websearch.com.au

I just read your description of websearch here (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2142&perpage=10&pagenumber=7) in another thread.

I'm writing an article on Australian search right now. Send me a sticky if you want to talk off line.

Best regards

Chris_D
Sydney

[tm3user]

I'm trying to get additional info on http://WebSearch.COM.AU however the ads page is blank (to me at least).

If anyone can point me in the direction of info on signing up with websearch and/or other AU only engines, I'd appreciate it.

Obviously, we'll do Overture once they launch, and are already live on PageSeeker (which I can strongly recommend) and Google AU only.

Thanks

[Dez]

Hi tm3user,

> I'm trying to get additional info on http://WebSearch.COM.AU however the
> ads page is blank (to me at least).
>
> If anyone can point me in the direction of info on signing up with websearch
> and/or other AU only engines, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Obviously, we'll do Overture once they launch, and are already live on
> PageSeeker (which I can strongly recommend) and Google AU only.

you say you got a blank page on the link to "advertise on websearch"?

perhaps try clicking directly to http://Ads.WebSearch.COM.AU ?

I've just checked from a couple of different gateways and got the page to load ok, and haven't seen any errors - but I'm always willing to admit that it's possible that something is broken - where are you clicking to get to the ads page?

I'd welcome your support with ppc ads / text box or sponsor listings at any time of course and anything I can do to assist, just let me know - feel free to email me directly at: ( dez at websearch dot com dot au ).

Cheers,

Dez

[medkraft]

Hi Ridwan,

As of January 26, there will be 3 PPC services available in Australia.

1) Google Adwords (Google and Content Syndication sites)

https://adwords.google.com.au/select/?hl=en

2) LookSmart - (NineMSN, GoEureka, OptusNet)

LookSmart was the first PPC provider in this market. The minimum CPC is a little expensive (minumum $1.50 CPC) here which may change as they just lost Yahoo to Overture. The rumour mill has it that NineMSN will continue to use LookSmart results until at least June 2004.

https://www.looklistings.com.au/llbb/index.html

3) Overture (Yahoo AU, AltaVista AU)

They were to launch on Jan 19 but pushed it back a week to get as many advertisers online as possible before launch. The online service won't be accessable until after the 26th.

Google is the most popular search engine in Australia and far outperforms any of the others

True. However, if you ingore NineMSN and Yahoo, you'll miss close to half the potential Australian market.

[Chris_D]

Hi medkraft and welcome to the forums.

Yes - you are absolutely correct - Looksmart is still the PPC provider - at the moment - for NineMSN Australia.

So although the rest of MSN globally dumped Look$mart yesterday - NineMSN here in Australia will keep them for the moment.

I agree - NineMSN probably won't keep them for very long - I don't think they can afford to......

The only reason I would have ever paid Look$mart was to get into NineMSN/ MSN. And hopefully - that reason will go away sooner than later ......

Chris_D
Sydney

[medkraft]

Personally, I really don't care whether NineMSN uses LookSmart or not. I'd like to see LookSmart survive soley for the extra competition. The important point is that most marketers ignore NineMSN (and LookSmart) and therefore miss a large chunk of the available traffic.

[medkraft]

It looks like LookSmart AU is about to cease to exist as we know it. Sensis/Telstra, owners of the Yellow Pages, just bought the Australian assets of the company.

While Sensis said they would honour the NineMSN deal, they'll likely get the boot in the near future.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8452263%255E15306,00.html

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums medkraft! :hi:

LS is slowing closing the doors.....

[Kal]

Yep! Watch for Google Australia or Overture Oz to go a-courtin NineMSN now :rolleyes:

[Whodeani]

Hi,

May I suggest you use a 3rd party business that manages all the available Search Engines for you.

D:O)

[eyeVU]

...

[Whodeani]

Yes,


D:O)

[searchenginemarketing4u]

I would watch out for Overture Australia :)

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the new members! :hi:

First off:

I don't agree with either one of those companies you both posted as one you all posted is a BIG SPAMMER.

Second:

There are MANY qualified companies that offer these services, just not them. I edited them out. I find it strange two new members jump in to promote these companies.

[skarraman]

Had the feeling this thread would be edited sooner or later. :cheers:

I would be looking at the quality of the information that is being posted by members over somebody giving themselves a wrap.

[ihelpyou]

LOL I was just informed that BOTH those companies you two new members promoted in here are BIG Spammers. I knew the one was, and now the other as well.

sheesh. I have to babysit in this place almost 24 hours per day.

Now I'm thinkin the new people are in cahoots.

[Whodeani]

First... I am suprised that my posts were edited and that us 'newbies' are being accused of somehow being in cahoots.

I can understand that commercial organisations often use threads like these to promote their businesses but this instance is not one of them..

OK...

I found this thread while searching Google for info on SEM. In my business (which is in no way associated with the company in question... something I will clarify later), I get paid to provide companies... large companies... with pre-marketing advice.

Recently a client came to me and asked for advice on developing an online marketing strategy for their new web presence.

I did my homework comparing DIY approaches such as dealing direct with companies like Overture and Google vs using a 3rd party.

In my clients case they didn't have the time to manage such a program themselves nor the neccessary expertise to trial and error the various terms to develop such a campaign themselves.

it was also just prior to Xmas and they were keen to launch a program quickly to capitalize on one of the busiest times of the year for them.

I explained that they worked like a media buyer in that they would manage all the various engines and would charge a small premium for doing so.

So their choice was a slower, cheaper DIY aproach vs a faster slightly more expensive approach with them.

As it turns out the campaign has been a huge success. Obviously I can not quote actual revenue figures but the company in question has had a substantial increase in online generated revenue.

I have no idea what you are referring to in respect to one of them being a 'spammer' but from what I understand of their processes... namely a direct XML feed into most of the major SE's, I would be suprised if you were referring to them in respect to this specific service.

As to my aassociation with them? I received no commision, kickbacks or whatever from my recomending their services to my client.

The nature of my business is that I act as an independant advisor on marketing matters... something that would be impossible to do if I was receiving a kick back from a recomended supplier.

Of course if you have proof I, or the other poster are associated with these suppliers then provide it. Not everyone that recomends a commercial organisation works for them... or is associated with them.

I simply mentioned them by name as I have had a very positive, very recent experience with their services.

Whats wrong with mentioning them by name...?

Looking forward to your next reply... Hopefully you won't censor mine.

D:O)

[ihelpyou]

They are well known as such.

Oh sure, success might be had, but what about long term success? Doubtful. If a site is banned that 'had' good success, how successful would they be then?

Actually, since I'm the owner of this place, I can pick and choose what to edit, etc. It's only fair. If I came to your house, and wrote something on the paper hanging on the wall and you did not like it, you would throw it away so as no one could see it. It's the same thing.

I simply don't like the promotion of companies I'm dead set against. If you read in here, you can clearly see I rarely edit things. All members can do as they please.

[Whodeani]

I think I know where the confusion has come from.

The original post was referring to PPC (or CPC) advertising.

My response was that they provide an excelletn service to manage this across multiple SE's.

As I originally stated, they work like a buyer putting your advertisement across multiple SE's and charge a small premium over direct CPC rates with the major SE's.

The responses to my feedback have focused on "Spamming" and "Cloaking" which is likely to be referring to regular SEO optimisation service... which they also offer.

To the best of my knowledge, the way the 'Company x' service works (for CPC campaign management) can not be "spammed" or "cloaked".

As I ave not dealt with them on regular SEO matters I can not comment on wether or not they "Cloak" or "Spam" these results.

Ans yes... if you were to hire a 3rd party and they got you banned that would be bad but that is impossible with using a company like 'company x' to manage a multiple SE CPC campaign.

Yes, it's your forum and you have the right to edit whomever you like... but it wouldn't be much of a forum if all posters simply reflected your opinion.

Robustly respond and critisize posts you disagree with but allow various posters to have their say unedited... unless of course it's a blatant advertisement (which my original post was not).

Thanks...

D:O)

[ihelpyou]

Dean: How many times do I have to edit out that name?

I understood ALL the while what you meant about ppc stuff. That ain't the point.

A spammer is a spammer. I won't stand for the fact of someone talking about a spammer like they were this great company. I don't care if they were successful or 'not'. You said through PM that it should not matter how a company does things. I say to you to read up in here about ALL our discussions on spam, etc.

You come from a strictly marketing type background. Many in that segment have NO clue and listen to those so-called "gurus" who know absolutely "nothing".

You found the right place now. :)

[Whodeani]

Can I ask you this...?

This company that you would prefer I not mention... Have you had any direct dealing with them...? (For that matter have any of the 'experts'...?)

They are a large company, unlike most of the so called SEO experts on this forum (I have checked a few of their websites) and 'may' have staff whom have overstepped the mark while trying to deliver on a clients unrealistic expectations.

Once again I state, the people I dealt with there have been excellent... and the work they did, even with my limited 'marketing' knowledge... was 'spamming' and 'cloaking' free.

This comment I find particularily interesting...

"You come from a strictly marketing type background. Many in that segment have NO clue and listen to those so-called "gurus" who know absolutely "nothing"."

I have never said I was a guru or expert on SE marketing... but thats irrelavant.

SEM, SEA and SEO are merely tools or 'output devices' much like printing or advertising in a newspaper.

Yes you need people that understand how to use these devices but a bad product, service or poorly developed campaign 'well marketed' via any delivery device... especially Search Engines will still perform poorly for a client.

Ultimately it's up to marketers to develop a website thats compatible with whichever campaigns they are managing and then seek relevant 3rd parties to assist where appropriate.

The value add that 'company x' brought to my client went way beyond simply placing ads with the major SE's (something I am more than capable of doing if this was all that was required).

They were not simply interested in delivering traffic... they made sure that the traffic was highly targetted and went through to the relevant conversion point on my clients website (the quote request page).

On top of this, they then modified the campaign (based on this tracking) to ensure that the terms used attracked people ready to buy... not just ready to get more information.

On top of this they provided excellent research on my clients industry sector... which has proved very usefull beyond the SE campaign they developed.

Now... most of the major SE CPC services do not offer either the ability to track between the page they send the client and the website owners 'sweet spot' page (in my clients case the 'Quote Request' page)... Nor do they provide the neccessary advice to modify campaigns on the fly to better target 'buyers'.

I am keen to see what the other SEO experts provide that compares to the experience I had with 'company x'.

BTW... A private message is sent privately for a reason.

D:O)

[medkraft]

What type of spam are they guilty of: cloaking, email, blatant posts, HTML tricks, etc.?

I'd be interested in seeing some proof myself about these companies.

[Chris_D]

Whodeani wrote at 24-01-2004 16:34/04:34PM:

So their choice was a slower, cheaper DIY aproach vs a faster slightly more expensive approach with them.

So you, and your client, didn't actually use that company's services that you are so intent on promoting?? The client went for the "DIY" approach???

And you keep on posting about how good this company's services are - but you haven't used them??

Thou doth protest too much whodeani.

Tell me - which engines did they offer you a "direct XML feed " into, Dean?

[ihelpyou]

I'm done Dean. You know where I stand thru here AND in PM.

These forums will "never" let anyone promote a spammer. Anyone who uses "bad practices" will not be promoted. Period. End of story.

You can go on and on and on and on all you wish, but if you would take a few to read ALL the many posts I've wrote in here about "bad practices", you can clearly see my stand. Why do you think the term "best practices" is a part of the name of these forums?

[medkraft]

So you, and your client, didn't actually use that company's services that you are so intent on promoting?? The client went for the "DIY" approach???

Chris_D I believe you misread Whodeani. He said in his post that the choice came down to using either DIY or a third party provider. His client went with the third party provider, hence the great results.

Note: I'm not affiliated with Whodeani (I've nver met him) or the third party provider in question.

[Whodeani]

"So their choice was a slower, cheaper DIY aproach vs a faster slightly more expensive approach with them."

As in they had a choice 'between' doing it themselves and using a 3rd party (whom was slightly more expensive than doing it themselves).

They chose to use the 3rd party company.

Sorry for the confusion...

D:O)

[Whodeani]

Thats my point... a lot of the critisism here is from people that have 'heard' something without necessarily having direct contact with these businesses.

My point is a service was required that this company more than delivered... I would have no hesitation in recomending them to future clients.

D:O)

[ihelpyou]

Nope. A good member in here has 'direct' contact with a former client of their's. "Direct"

We know what techniques they use.

[Whodeani]

But you haven't had direct contact with them... as I have.

I think I am therefore in a much better position than you to offer objective critisism of their work.

Once you have worked with them... with one of your own clients... I would love to chat with you and compare notes... until that time your comments are not 'direct' they are 2nd hand and should be treated as such.

I would say that your comments (and those of the so called experts) are highly subjective (as no doubt you feel are mine).

While everyone seeems to be quoting 'best practices' whatever... No one has provided proof that 'company x' has done any 'spammming' or 'cloaking'. Speaking with a member who has direct contact with an ex client... Lame...

I have direct contact, working with them while working with my client. I would define that as 'direct'... not you being advised by a member whom has spoken with an ex client.

Maybe I am wrong. I would be curious to see what other forum posters think.

I find it typical of companies that compete in this space (and yours is one of them... mine is not) that they are quick to critisize the large players in this industry... without being able to back up their accusations.

I can asure you... and other readers of this forum... that 'company x' has an excellent reputation in Australia and has a range of large clients that you could only dream about.

Best of luck with your business. It's a pity though that your clients aren't exposed to individuals and companies that choose to have a different opinion to yours.

Edit away... ;)

D:O)

[ihelpyou]

Sheesh Dean, Losit already. This is getting old.

I'm very sure I could get my member to tell the whole world in here if that is what you want. Are you kidding me? Do you want me to explain in detail what cloaking is and give you an example?

Come on.

Thread closed.


Naw, I ain't closin. I can't believe you want us to embarrass your great SEM company. Go ahead, push this if you want to. I suggest you stop while you can. :)

Large company that competes with me? Don't think so. They ain't no competition for me and never will be Dean. I'll take my many more smaller clients any day than have a couple large clients. Besides, ask that SEM company if they explain to their clients that techniques they use are spam? They don't tell their clients.

[Whodeani]

Hi Neil,

Sounds good... But before everyone gets carried away... It's worth noting that my 'recomendation' was based on Ridwans initial post...

--

Hi People,

Could some one provide me a list of best performance search engine/directory in Australia for PPC Advertisment.

What would be their position compare PPC Adv in Google as example.

Regards,
Ridwan
http://www.cncdesign.com.au
--

... And the follow up posts by other members.

The Australian market is extremely fragmented and getting research on which SE performs better than the other is very difficlt... as is finding out which ones can deliver the type of target market that the client requires.

It was with that in mind that I suggested a 3rd party... 'company x' that could do the initial research (audience relevance) and manage the process of setting up a CPC campaign across various Search Engines.

I still feel my original and subsequent posts (based on direct contact with 'company x') were relevant and that Ridwan should consider this advice when choosing wether to go it alone or use a 3rd party.

Re: "I can't believe you want us to embarrass your great SEM company."

I can't see the point given a) the service they provided my client was not one that could involve "Cloaking" or "Spamming" and b) they, in the specific circumstances of working with me and my client, provided service above and beyond what was asked.

If you and your fellow posters can stay on topic then bring it on...

BTW... It would be great to hear from some of the other experts in here... whom I assume have had direct contact with 'company x' (IE worked with them on behalf of one of their clients).

D:O)

[Dez]

what was the question again?

[Chris_D]

Thanks for clarifying that Dean - I misunderstood 'their choice...'

I'm still curious as to which engines they provided your client with a "direct XML feed " into.

[Whodeani]

Hi Chris,

Not sure which 'specific' ones... sorry... it was a large campaign (600 terms) across many engines.

D:O)

[ihelpyou]

Client buys a 'new domain, which 'company x' hosts, which redirects the clicks (from the normal Google SERPS) to the clients domain.






Does anyone think that is an ethical technique? LOL Don't think so. When the client cancels, he loses everything. The client has to start from scratch again. His "real" domain is never touched. Is that 'optimization' or SEO in any sense of the word? NO.

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by Whodeani
Hi Neil,

Sounds good... But before everyone gets carried away... It's worth noting that my 'recomendation' was based on Ridwans initial post...

--

Hi People,

Could some one provide me a list of best performance search engine/directory in Australia for PPC Advertisment.

What would be their position compare PPC Adv in Google as example.

Regards,
Ridwan
http://www.cncdesign.com.au
Ridwan's initial post was asking for search engines and directories, not SEM companies. Your reply was off-topic and irrelevant. If you were an established member with an established reputation, we could set your reply in some context. But a new member who, with their first post, drops off-topic, irrelevant links into the middle of a thread will get short shrift, since 99 times out of 100 that's all they are here to do.

Stop wasting our time, please.

[ihelpyou]

Very good point Alan.

With that, thread closed.