New Scumware Program??

[buckworks.com]

http://www.180solutions.com/n-case/advertisers/how.asp

Do we have yet another scumware fight on our hands? Bleah.

[Alan Perkins]

Not sure. How do you define scumware?

Personally, I don't like what they're doing and wouldn't choose to install this program. That doesn't make it wrong, though.

At a glance, I see no evidence of

a) Any kind of affiliate fraud
b) Modification of displayed content (including insertion or modification of hyperlinks)
c) Passing off

which are the kinds of activities I associate with scumware.

[WebSavvy]

I am familiar with that website. I downloaded the game called YoMamaOsama from twistedhumor.com. They secretly install the advertising from 180solutions.com on your computer without ever disclosing this to you.

I was suddenly getting very large popup windows that would open themselves up claiming the entire viewing area of my computer screen. The ads contained therein were highly suggestive and some were pornographic.

I uninstalled YoMamaOsama from my computer. The files for 180soultions.com did not "uninstall" with it.

After 2 weeks of asking twistedhumor.com where these hidden files were located, and them just ignoring my pleas for information, I threatened to sue them on the basis that it was installed into my computer w/o my knowledge or consent. I was not given any option to decline the installation nor was I provided with a means or information of location, in order to delete the program. I explained to them that the ads were not suitable for minors under the age of 18 and having a small child in the home that could be exposed to this would leave them wide open for a law suit.

Well, the very next day (after 2 weeks of getting no where) they emailed me the download URL to the uninstaller for wnad.exe which is what removes the disgusting ads from 180solutions.com

[Alan Perkins]

Debi, who did the fault lie with in your opinion?

Seems to me it would lie with the company that installed that software on your computer without your permission, rather than the company that provided the software (which IMO is horrible but legitimate) in the first place.

[WebSavvy]

In my opinion twistedhumor.com is the guilty party.

[buckworks.com]

From their site:
The second thing n-CASE does on the user's system is display highly targeted interstitial adverisements as the user surfs the Internet.

Translation: "highly targeted interstitial adverisements" = "popups."

I'd define scumware as

1) a program that installs itself surreptitiously and doesn't uninstall easily
2) parasites on MY content to display THEIR ads, in one form or another.

It's true that popups don't modify page displays in the same way that TopText does, for example, but they seriously degrade the user's experience and clearly are positioning themselves to divert traffic away from the site whose content actually earned the visitor. As website owner, I consider that a form of theft.

Savvy1's story shows that their "highly targeted" claims are baloney.

But then, a company whose business model is based on spying and theft is unlikely to be totally honest in the claims it makes to the advertisers it is trying to woo.

Grrrr....

[buckworks.com]

One more thing... Alan, I don't understand what you mean by "passing off." Care to elaborate?

[ihelpyou]

180Solutions is a classic example of SCUM. The software that allows this piggybacking to take place is just as guilty. They are BOTH SCUM. No one can tell me that the downloaded software company does not know what kinds of ads 180solutions shows. They know. No one can tell me that the company does not know how hard it is to uninstall the 180solutions software. They know. BOTH are scumware.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.180solutions.com/Flash/180_ver5.html

Read it. They are SCUM.

They are also a Truste partner. Savvy1, you should let Truste know your experience with the scumware company.

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by buckworks.com
they seriously degrade the user's experience and clearly are positioning themselves to divert traffic away from the site whose content actually earned the visitor. As website owner, I consider that a form of theft.Elisabeth, don't get me wrong, I am with you 100% in sentiment. But users can choose to view the Web how they want, using whatever browser and plug-ins they want. So, as long as the users are not being misled, there is no real case. OTOH, I believe site owners should have the ability to detect different browsers and serve appropriate content to them, or choose not to serve content to certain browsers (or browser equipped with certain plugins).

Originally posted by buckworks.com
I don't understand what you mean by "passing off." Care to elaborate?In short, pretending to be somebody else or creating the false impression of being sanctioned by them . Using their content, their branding, their trademarks, etc.

[WebSavvy]

180solutions would just make the claim that they are not in any way responsible for how other software creators/vendors will bundle or piggyback their [180solutions] software within their own programs.

The piggybacking of 180solutions ad software was done by twistedhumor.com. They [twistedhumor] claims they need to do this because their program creators need to be able to eat.

The programs are created and donated by their creators. These people do not get paid for software they "donate." They are not compensated in any way.

So just was starving software creator are they trying to feed by forcing X-rated ads in front of the eyes of minors?

180solutions has to be aware that ad campaigns being created by their publishers/advertisers contain material that is questionable.

[buckworks.com]

But users can choose to view the Web how they want, using whatever browser and plug-ins they want.

It's funny how the makers of these programs howl about "user choice" but they don't believe in the concept enough to provide an easy, obvious way to turn the things on or off at will, or make them easy to uninstall.

To be a valid principle here, "user choice" must work both ways, and it should be as easy for a user to "unchoose" as it was to "choose" in the first place.

I don't see that happening.

Elisabeth Archambault

[ihelpyou]

The makers know for a fact if they FULLY disclosed exactly what was being installed on the users computer, the user would choose "not" to install the spyware/scumware. This is why there is never full disclosure or there is NEVER an easy way to uninstall the scumware, nor is there EVER an uninstall where both programs are completely removed at the same time.

Both are SCUM. Period.

[Alan Perkins]

Good points, Elisabeth.

In addition to user choice, webmasters should have the ability to choose. So a webmaster should be able to easily say "I'm not serving you my content because you are using a browser/plugin/filter/translator I don't approve of". But only the "good" comply with the "laws". :(

[Tim180]

Hi there,

My name is Tim Ulrich, the Director of Strategic Alliances for 180Solutions. I was just doing some searches within Google and stumbled across this thread. I felt I needed to post a response.

At no time has 180Solutions bundled with any product from Twisted Humor. We have never had any relationship with their company. Additionally, our product installs with an executable called "msbb.exe". We do not have anything to do with "wnad.exe".

Every distributor that bundles us must submit a sample bundle to us before they begin distribution. We require that each distributor have a stand alone screen in their installation process that messages users about n-case. They cannot hide the messaging at the bottom of their EULA, or just have a little one line description. We provide them with some examples, which they can modify, but we have final approval. See http://www.180solutions.com/n-case/installscreens.htm for some samples.

Apparently wnad.exe is something from another company (see http://www.cexx.org/osama.htm for more information.)

I hope this answers your questions. I'd be happy to answer any others you may have. Feel free to email me with any concerns you have.

Tim Ulrich
Director of Strategic Alliances
180Solutions
timu@180solutions.com

[WebSavvy]

Tim,

I beg to differ with you. 180solutions was indeed piggybacked with a program from twisted humor. Perhaps this was done without your knowledge, but it was done. I know, it was on my very own computer.

The ads URL in the browser were from 180solutions.com
Yes, I know wnad.exe if from another company. As I stated previously, it is the uninstall from twisted humor to remove the piggybacked adware that was embedded in my computer.

Regards,
Deborah

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Tim! :hi:

I am of the belief as is MOST every webmaster on the net that NO software should be bundled with any Spyware of ANY type whatsoever.

If you wish to be a part of that stuff, then maybe you should not be allowing other companies to piggyback with you on anything at all.

I personally will not load Anything on my puter now unless I know for an absolute fact what the heck else is in the software.

I am sick and tired of sleazy companies spying on me and trying to deceive computer users into things.

[ihelpyou]

I think you would agree Tim that your software trys to deceive the computer user into believing that any and all popups are coming from the site that they are visiting.

Why the heck don't you or anyone else fully disclose in disclaimers, that any new user or illiterate user can understand at the download location, what the heck it is that is Actually in the darn software????

Why please.