Yahoo Update?

[OptWizard]

From what it looks like yahoo updated its search...With this update it makes me feel even more they are using some sort of Google PR in an algo one way or another. One of my experimental guestbook sites was top 10 in Yahoo and now with this update it is down to 196?

This make me feel that google has some sort of effect on the Yahoo search results. I noticed a big change in other urls as well...

Any one else have any ideas?

[french dread]

well yahoo results are influenced by google results only for web results I think.
yahoo don't "update" in that sense that it is not a SE but a directory

[OptWizard]

I know that...but they are updating...The new results are TOTALLY different than they were yesterday....Plus I also noticed...the number 1 google site has now made it to number 2 on yahoo when it was no where yesterday...I am still thinking some type of google influence...This same pattern happened last time Yahoo did an update...

[MakeMeTop]

I completely agree with you OptWizard - and although many have tried to contradict this - it has been consistent for a while. See the comments at http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1040&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

[OptWizard]

Thank you Make...

People keep saying I am crazy but I have seen this in at least the past 3 yahoo updates which make me believe that have or use some sort of algo...They no longet just use TITLE...DESCRIPTION...TOPIC...URL...I have proved this theory wrong already....

The question now is what algo is Yahoo using or are they just using some sort of google algo?

[MakeMeTop]

OK - my 2 cents.

For initial rankings (for a new site) - Yahoo likes title, description, category AND URL - all to have the primary key phrase. After about 4 weeks you get a drop - based on Yahoo looking at click-through factors which also consider the newness of your site.

Then - about a week before the main Google update (when they update their whole PR module) - the PR gets fed to Yahoo and they apply this to the rank of the site. Low PR? Low rank!

At the next update - the PR from Yahoo kicks in and the position in Yahoo rises - get a few more PR boosts and you will rise. Only after about 3-4 months will Yahoo's click-thru algo effect the rankings. But even that can get destroyed by a Google penalty - when the site will drop to the bottom!

I monitor over 100 Yahoo sites and have seen exactly this happen for many months - in fact I posted this idea on WMW more than a year ago. Nice to see that someone else has also seen what (to me anyway) is pretty obvious :)

[Farhan]

MakemeTop,
I may agree to this partly, as no matter how much stuff google feds to yahoo on the PR thing, yahoo still relies on titiles and descriptions and yes on the clickthrus A LOT!

In this recent update at Yahoo, one of my site got the 1st position, whereas the other one coudnt even make it to the first page, though they both have a PR of 6 and rank great at Google.

Yes, of course, one that ranked well on yahoo has a keyword rich titile and description and the other one doesnt.

[Farhan]

Okay I agree completely!

I did an extensive research on various keyphrases, and found that Yahoo and Google match some results now.

Importance of ranking high on Google or having a strong PR has significantly increased now!

So for Ranking good on Yahoo, Now you need to have a Good PageRank, provided you have a good title and description as well.

I guess, this may improve the quality of results on Yahoo to at least some extent.

[MakeMeTop]

Yep - you're right. ;)

Thanks for taking the time to check the theory out.

[OptWizard]

Make me...
So we were right hmmmm

>>>yahoo still relies on titiles and descriptions<<<

I found this to be a very little part of the equation...I noticed 2 sites with the same title and one description was better than the other 1 was .com 1 was .net same url...the site with the crapy description was ranked higher...

I still think Google has a huge effect on Yahoo...be it PR or some sort of algo from google...

And from what it looks like get top 10 google you are almost a lock to be in top Yahoo when they update...

[highman]

By Jove!!!

Ive been out of action for several months, and now catching up quickly, you're dead right this is great news as I have no problems with Google rankings and hence my Yahoo! rankings are great....

Thats made my day :cheers: If any of you lived close enough I'd get you a beer!

ps. I wish Yahoo! would add a background colour to their pages.... such a school boy error!

[ihelpyou]

hmm. I do agree that Yahoo has made some good changes in the algo but cannot see where Google PR plays a big part. Many sites I check have a PR of 6 and ranked in the top 10 on Google, including my own site, but do not rank in the top 30 on yahoo. My site is #5 at this moment in Google and #52 on the same term in Yahoo. I still do think a spam filled title and Url mean a lot to yahoo, just not as much. They are getting better.

[Farhan]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
.......I still do think a spam filled title and Url mean a lot to yahoo, just not as much. They are getting better.

I hope they start treating the site titles like Looksmart, then i am sure, yahoo would be a good place to search.

[OptWizard]

>> I still do think a spam filled title and Url mean a lot to yahoo, just not as much<<

Has not worked for me..tested this out and as i said above i noticed 2 sites one a .com one a .net both spam filled url and one is way higher than other..I do think it helps a little but no way near as much as it used to...

GOOGLE IS THE KEY...

[Hasenfefer]

"My site is #5 at this moment in Google and #52 on the same term in Yahoo."

Doug,,,how long have you held that #5 spot on Google?

[ihelpyou]

hmm. Been of the first page of results for about a 1 1/2 years or somthing like that. In other words, along time.

[OptWizard]

Doug...and whats the PR for the site? This seems to be a key..I have looked at yahoo and the top 5 sites have a PR of a 6 or more

[ihelpyou]

That particular site that has been on the first page at Google has a PR of 6 and is my site.

[OptWizard]

Hmmm that is strange....
Cause from what I seen google and yahoo results are very similiar lately...Unless they are rolling this out with each new update

[MakeMeTop]

>strange....

Not necessarily! If the sites above have a similar or higher PR and/or have more of the main 4 other rank boosters and/or are new and/or have a higher click through ration then this will have more of an effect on rankings in a particularly competitive area.

I would post an example - of how I can show this in action in a competitive area where I have several sites - but better not ;)

[Mel]

I assume we are talking about yahoogle here.

It has always been my understanding that Yahoo supplements its results with those from Google: If a search fails to find a match within Yahoo's own listings, then matches from Google are displayed, otherwise Google matches appear after all Yahoo matches.

This being the case why woudn't they match?

If I search on for a particular phrase on "web pages" I am ranked #3 if I do the same search on web sites I get two yahoo directory listings followed by the same Google results so I am now renked #5.

The same search on Google direct returns a rank of 5.

[Farhan]

Originally posted by Mel
I assume we are talking about yahoogle here.

No we are not! :)
We are talking about the pure yahoo results! ( at least I am)

[Mel]

For yahoo.com here are the top five search results for that old standby search engine optimization compared with Google results:

Yahoo..................................... Google
1. http://www.se-secrets.com/ - spider-food.net
2. http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey -hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey
3. http://www.123searchengineoptimization - www.bruceclay.com/
4. http://www.search-engine-optimization-placement.com- www.clickz.com/search/opt/index.php
5. http://www.subia-search-engine-optimization - www.rankwrite.com/

Forgive me but I fail to see much correlation there and the rest of the top ten are similiar, so I am confused.

[kneelsit]

My own experience here is that position depends on how you search . If it is a bin search on Yahoo
then google results seem to cut in. At least that has been my experience since I was downgraded by google.
A directory search, however, still places me near the top.

[MakeMeTop]

>pure yahoo results..

Yes - we are all talking about Yahoo directory results - not Yahoo/Google.

We are talking about major influence on rankings - not it being the sole influence. In competitive areas - things like click-throughs, title, newness of site, description etc., will come into play - specifically if PageRank is similar - so the SEO phrase is a tough one to see it on. However, if you monitor 100+ sites in different categories - the trend is very clear.

[OptWizard]

look at the number 2 site for yahoo and then the number 1 for google for SEO
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/01/23/index1a.html

hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/01/23/index1a.html

and thats a competitive word...

[Farhan]

I see a major reshuffle in Yahoo again! ( well has proved great for me) has anyone else seeing something new?

[OptWizard]

Yes another reshuffle...Seems like they are shuffling every 2 weeks?

[liltiger]

morning*S*- great board! i've found this one very informational*S*. Yahoo yes did another shuffle*is thankful because it boosted my sites!*. Actually I have found that generally they do the major updates to the searches every wed. evening and minor updates on sat. *S*

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums liltiger! :hi:

[OptWizard]

Yes this seems to be try about the update but like every 2 weeks.

My theory on the Yahoo Algo

1- Title Description Url and Category are important. This seems to be the main concern on the intial submit and placement.

2- Once placed within the directory clickthrus and google pagerank come into place.

3- Clickthrus more important than the google algo.

4- Seems like Google comes into play as deciding factor in placement.

Most of the tops sites have a PR of 6 and have been in the directory for a while.

My theory

[liltiger]

i have to aggree with you on the algo*nods*..

and thanks for the welcome to the board:)

[kneelsit]

You guys seem pretty knowledgeable on Yahoo.:)

Can any of you tell me if Yahoo takes note of a change in Business Name to amend the titles they currently show. It is 4 years now since I contacted them. ?

[kneelsit]

My apologies Liltiger - Welcome to the forums:hi:

[OptWizard]

Kneelsit...One company I made a webiste for changed company name and it took Yahoo about 5 months and they changes the title on there own. I did not even email them. So in time they will change it or try the change form.

[ihelpyou]

All you can do is submit a change on their change request form and hope they notice it and make the change.

[MsSearch]

...or in a year, when they start re-reviewing sites they may come across the site you mentioned and change the title.

But i would fill out the change form in the meantime, as Doug already suggested...

[kneelsit]

Many thanks for that info :)

[profitpark]

Hello everyone, I'm new here! About Yahoo updating, I noticed interesting results when searching for the key phrase "online casinos" It's highly competitive according to WordTracker...but none of Yahoo and Google's top 10 results matched. The site with a PR of 7 is nowhere to be found on Yahoo's web site listings...and those that found it to the top in Yahoo have no PR on Google. Any opinions?

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums profitpark! :hi:

Personally, I don't see many similiarities between the Yahoo web sites and the Google SERPS.

[Farhan]

Welcome to the forums profitpark:hi:

As stated before,
Google's Pagerank is just one of the many elements which sum up to rank on yahoo. Other factors such as keyword rich title, description, domain name, and click thrus play an equal or maybe a greater part of the yahoo's ranking algo. The site which has a 7 Pagerank, may be missing one or more of the above mentioned factors.

You said that sites which are on yahoo, had no pageranks?
Yes, I've checked three of the sites and none of them had a pagerank. However, they will eventually get a PR, if they are not banned on google for some other reasons.

[zElement]

Seems like I have been penalized by Google and need help to get back in. Could anyone help with ideas?

I have been, initially, positioned on the 5th page under "web marketing services" keyword search. But I was greedy and decided to optimize my site further. I added alt text and changed the description tag a little... a day later I was removed from Google completely!

Since then I've been trying to resubmit again, but so far have no luck.

Can anyone help with an advise? Please visit my site at www.zelement.com and provide a critique.

thank you in advance,
zElement
azavodnik@zelement.com

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums zelement! :hi:

No, simply tweaking things ain't gonna do it. It seems you have been dropped completely from Google if you were in previously. The PR bar is greyed out and you don't have any pages in Google anymore.

What did you do?

[zElement]

what IS gonna "do it", ihelpyou?... any idea?

[Blue]

Welcome to the forums zElement! :hi:

I don't know if this has anything to do with it but your code ends here:<noscript><IMG src="http://stats.web-side.com/pphlogger.php?id=azavodni&st=img" border="0" alt="Web-Sid It looks like it's cut off. Where are your < /body> and < /html> tags?

[ihelpyou]

What is going to do it?

Oh my. It could be anything and everything. No one knows but Google and possibly you as you are the only one who knows about your own site and it's past.

Read up in here about how/why sites get penalized or banned. Could be anything at all. It could also be what Blue said. Could be anything.

You have not given us enough info to know very much.

[Mel]

This post should be moved to the Google thread. This is the Yahoo thread.

[zElement]

I'm glad u've noticed it, Blue!

this could be the reason as Google crawls to check for broken code.

hopefully now I'll be indexed again.

thanks again, Blue!

[SubmissoR]

For several sites I had that lost PR, they were dropped out of yahoo too, but the PR was returned last month, and now they are all doing well again at Yahoo. Yahoo!

Although those sites aren't doing that great at google, because not all the pr was restored, just some of it. Hopefully the yahoo traffic will make up for it.

[Blue]

Your welcome z! Let us know if that solved your problem.