Paid Inclusion Question

[Advisor]

Does anyone know if when you submit a URL through Inktomi's paid inclusion program, whether or not they remove other URLs from the same site, which you didn't pay for?

In other words, I have a few pages from my site indexed already (for free). However, I'm thinking I would like my main page in and updated (I think they have a really, really old version). But I am nervous that if I pay for one URL, they'll delete the other URLs that they already have in hopes that I'll pay. I know when the program was new, there were rumblings of this happening. Does this still happen (if in fact it ever did). Should I just leave well enough alone, or is it worth the money? One of the reasons I'm interested is so I can be familiar with the program in order to start using it for clients. I figure I might as well test it with my own site first.

Thanks!

Jill

[MakeMeTop]

No - the pages are not removed. I do paid-inclusion on 3 pages on my own site - but all the 90 odd site pages are in the index. None have ever been removed - they take a while to update though. Indeed, new pages are added as the Slurp 'main' spiders still crawl the site on a regular basis.

Be warned though that putting your own home page in paid-inclusion can have some strange effects. Sometimes changes don't show until the 'real' Inktomi DB updates at the end of a month and sometimes it will show the changes straight away - and once in - you need to keep paying to have the home page stay there - or it will drop out for a few weeks when you stop paying - until the next 'real/BOW' DB update.

[highman]

I struggled with INK paid sub. for months, could not get an index page anywhere near the top, I eventually gave up (there is a thread with this documented) and thought 'sod' ink put my resourses elsewhere.
After 3 months of not changing a thing I suddenly noticed a rise in traffic from MSN, checked and there it was sat #1 behind the LS listings.
So from initial paid inclusion to getting in the BOW index took 3 months.

Not sure if that helps you or not :confused:

[Jaer57]

I also did paid inclusion.

Are you saying it can take 3 months to get in the Dbase?

[highman]

no no, not to get in but to move to the BOW which is where your listing then gets a boost, if you are fighting with other sites in BOW then the only way you can compete is to be in BOW as well

[Advisor]

Perhaps I just need another cup of coffee, but I can't for the life of me think of what BOW stands for. Anyone?

And thanks, all, for the info. I think I'll probably try my main page just to get familiar with the system, but will not have any high expectations!

Jill

[Jaer57]

Good Morning

I'm new to dbase submission and I feel a bit ignorant here.

I don't know what a BOW is.

Is my SFI site going to do anything without further effort on
my part or is there something I need to be doing?

[ihelpyou]

hey Barry, you explain the 'BOW' thing. It's Sunday and my brain does not work in total on Sunday's. :)

[Advisor]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
hey Barry, you explain the 'BOW' thing. It's Sunday and my brain does not work in total on Sunday's. :) Thank you, Doug! I thought it was just me who was messed up from too much wine last night. <Go Pats!> ;)

Jill

[MazY]

I'll hazard an educated guess.

Click here (http://www.bestofweb.com/) to find out the answer... :)

I have no idea if it's right but it's the only BOW I know of!

[Advisor]

Hmmmm...Best of Web. Makes sense. Perhaps they're talking about the fact that Inktomi supposedly gives a boost to those in the inclusion program (or is it a penalty for those that aren't?). So the "best of web" means you've got that boost. Or maybe it's Boost of Web?

J

[ihelpyou]

Inktomi has 3 databases;

One are sites in the "BOW" database, in other words, sites that are in there for good and can be either paid Url's or free ones.

Another is sites that have been submitted for free and are struggling to get into the "BOW" database.

Another is sites that are paid for and are struggling to get into the BOW database.

That is a quick overview of things. Remember, it's Sunday. :)

[highman]

Sorry to be short n sweet (family meal on table) but NFFC sums it up best here (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum1/1267.htm)

[Alan Perkins]

There are more than three INK databases. A slightly fuller explanation can be found on this page:

http://www.inktomi.com/products/search/web.html

Inktomi Content Discovery Technology discovers, critiques and harvests content to ensure that the search user experiences the freshest and highest quality search results available on the Web. The system examines more than 1.7 Billion URLs to analyze the characteristics of each page and the link structure that connects the pages to create the Inktomi WebMap. From this WebMap database, Inktomi chooses the highest quality documents for each of these search indexes: Eurocluster (110M Documents), the Asia Pacific cluster (55M Documents), the Best of Web cluster (110M Documents) and GEN3™ (500 M documents). Content is also injected into the indexes from content partners providing high quality and human edited content into the Index such as directory, news, multimedia or subject content. Finally, editorial rules are applied to the index to improve data quality by removing spam and other low value content.

[highman]

To Sum up

If your having trouble with INK, ie you have a lowish competitive keyword / phrase which INK will get you on the first / second page of say MSN, AND you cant make any headway with your listing, its prob. because the other sites in INK are in BOW and your not.

If you use INK how it should be used (for v.low pop. keyphrases) then the above scenario does / should not apply.

Its only when you push the limits of INK that you may encounter the BOW db and its wieghting factors.

HTH

[Advisor]

Great info, guys! I can't believe I didn't already know this stuff. Shows how little attention I've paid to Inktomi since they started their paid inclusion (and since HotBot began to bite the big one!).

Well, I did submit the main page of highrankings.com through PositionTech this morning. Look :eyes: for me soon to be number 1 for search engine optimization in ink...NOT! :green:

Jill

[Advisor]

Just read the WmW comments on the different ink databases. It sure sounds like it's absolutely crucial to use Inktomi paid inclusion if you want a chance at a decent ranking (unless you're talking very uncompetitive phrases). I think it kinda stinks, but I guess it's the way of the world. Looks like I'll have to start thinking seriously of using it for all my client's sites in the future. I didn't think Inktomi would be able to find a way to include URLs for free and also make people pay, but I see they are a smart and sneaky bunch!

Jill

[highman]

Jill, the trick with INK is to use it for all those off track phrases in MSN etc and not to go for the big hitting phrases, for those you need to pull out the big guns like LSmart / ODP etc.

INK is brilliant forall the searches in MSN that LSmart does not cover with its Directory.

But if you try and use INK for poular searches you are going to be buried.
The real beauty of INK is the obscure key phrases

[Advisor]

The real beauty of INK is the obscure key phrases But then isn't being in the free database good enough for obscure keywords?

J

[highman]

>But then isn't being in the free database good enough for obscure keywords?

Yes, but you dont have the frequency of spidering to play with your pages ;)

[Advisor]

Originally posted by highman
>Yes, but you dont have the frequency of spidering to play with your pages ;) So let me get this straight as I think I'm confused again.

I thought I just read that even if you're in the paid inclusion program and in the BOW database, your changes will not be immediately apparent on inktomi. Yes, you get spidered every 48 hours, but you still have to wait for the once a month BOW database refresh.

At least that is what I thought I read from MMT on the other boards.

Am I misunderstanding something, reading things wrong, or just generally confused!

Jill

[highman]

I see changes in MSN after say 4 or 5 days, but that was before I got into BOW.
I have not tried it since being in BOW.
But the point of INK is for obscure keyphrases so you dont need to be in BOW therefore the updates are much quicker i.e 4 0r 5 days in MSN

I know its confusing, I went through Hell a while back and even posted my frustration here and collared MMT at the London bar conference, but I think I now have a handle on it.

If its possible to make the first page at MSN (LSmart listings run out before #15) then you may make it with an INK listing IF you get into BOW, if MSN shows NO / FEW L$ listings for your keyphrase then paying for an INK listing will pay off in 5 days or so


Clear as Mud?

[Advisor]

Clear as Mud? hehe...yes, indeedy!

But I do think that helps clear it up a bit. I'll probably get it more once I see what happens (if anything) with my page.

Thanks for all your help!

Jill