Yahoo UK Express for £199!

[MakeMeTop]

Yahoo UK appear to have launched their own Express submission service which is different to the US. It is a one-off charge of £199 (including VAT). Information available at http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/info/express/help/

As this is considerably less than the US alternative what do you think this means? No more Yahoo.com visible in the UK? Or to appear in both you are going to have to pay both - like LookSmart!

Enquiring minds want to know :)

[ihelpyou]

hmmm. Is that an annual recurring fee? If so, I bet one will have to pay to both to be in both now.

[Advisor]

Someone emailed me about it today and said it was not recurring...one time only. I don't have any verification, just what the person said who emailed me.

J

[MakeMeTop]

It's a one-off non-recurring fee.

[Alan Perkins]

I tried submitting a UK-only site to this a week ago. It broke after step 3 of 4. I sent an e-mail asking what happened and got no reply.

I tried again today and it now works. I'll let you know in which directories the site ends up appearing.

BTW, I noticed this in the new Terms Of Service:

10. NO RESALE OF SERVICE

You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes, any portion of the Service, use of the Service, or access to the Service. Hmmm, is the Express Submission program part of the "Service"? In which case SEOs may not exploit it for commercial purposes! You decide:2. DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE

Yahoo! currently provides users with access to a rich collection of on-line resources, including, various communications tools, online forums, shopping services, personalised content and branded programming through its network of properties (the "Service").

[Advisor]

10. NO RESALE OF SERVICE
You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes, any portion of the Service, use of the Service, or access to the Service. Hmmm...are they saying we can't offer Yahoo Express to our clients? I guess they mean we can't offer it for a higher price. But that shouldn't mean that we can't charge for creating the proper description and all that good stuff. Interesting that they have that in the contract, however.

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

Ask your husband. The way I read it, you can't make a business by selling your services on top of theirs.

[Advisor]

Good idea, I think I will. Do you happen to know offhand if this is just in the UK Yahoo or is it also in the US one?

It still seems to me that as long as you're not saying it costs say $400 instead of $199 (or in this case pounds), then you're okay. For instance, I might say I'm charging you $300 to create a description, do category research and keyword research. Possibly even you're paying me to go to the trouble of doing the actual submission. Then YOU are paying Yahoo's $299. But I think I will ask Don, because it definitely sounds ambiguous.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

I read somewhere that Yahoo is not going to accept the SEO credit card to submit another web site with anymore. Could be wrong about that. If you use your own credit card, you are claiming that you are the owner of the site you are submitting. I think if you use your clients credit card then you are fine.

Anyone know for sure about any of this?

[Advisor]

Haven't heard that anywhere. Sounds like one of those nasty rumors to me. I can't imagine that Yahoo would care who's card it is as long as it works and they get paid!

J

[lots0cash]

I was debating if I should post this, but then I thought what the heck.

I have found a legitimate way to submit to Yahoo for free, just like the “good old days”.

Just go to sg.yahoo.com and go to the “How to suggest a site” link, there is no charge and your site will get looked at within 48 hours (at least that is what it has been lately).

[ihelpyou]

Yes, but if Yahoo wants to curtail a SEO from reselling their services, making them use the site owner's credit card would be a way to do it.

[Advisor]

Alan, can you point me to those new terms of service where it says that number 10? I don't see it in the Express Service Agreement at Yahoo UK. Oh wait, I found it. It's not actually a term for the Express service, it's a term of service for Yahoo in general. They don't want you to resell their mail functions, their games, their anything. I suppose it could include their Yahoo Express service too.

Here's what Don said about it (without reading the entire agreement, which is actually important to do because it's out of context here):
If the Service is the directory (and ability to link to a search engine),
then you would not be allowed, if you were a search engine, to use Yahoo to
obtain results -- fair enough. In addition, however, I would argue that one
who is paid to submit pages to Yahoo is exploiting for commercial purposes
"access to the Service". In addition, one who crafts web pages in order to
make them more conspicuous to a search engines, and thereby improve the
page's numerical position in a list of results, could arguably be exploiting
for commercial purposes "access to the Service". A person who designs a
website and agrees to also submit the website free of charge would not be
exploiting access to the Service. Your focused efforts, however, are
questionable at best.Please note that I don't think he realized the difference between Yahoo being a directory and therefore what you do to the pages is irrelevant. (I don't bother to explain this stuff to everyone I know!)

I pointed him to the entire agreement now, so if he has time to look at it, he may believe differently.

Jill

[Advisor]

Originally posted by lots0cash
I was debating if I should post this, but then I thought what the heck.

I have found a legitimate way to submit to Yahoo for free, just like the “good old days”.

Just go to sg.yahoo.com and go to the “How to suggest a site” link, there is no charge and your site will get looked at within 48 hours (at least that is what it has been lately). Lotso...it doesn't have to be a .sg site from Singapore? Have you gotten .com's in that way?

J

[lots0cash]

Yup it’s a Singapore site, Singapore Yahoo. I have submitted 5 pages and I have had one accepted. They really look your site over, the first one I submitted received over 400 page views from their editors – it did not get in. But the next one I submitted did :)

[Advisor]

Was the site you got in, a dot.com site? Or one related to Singapore?

J

[lots0cash]

Sorry Jill, I read your question wrong the first time. No it does not have to be a .sg site.

[lots0cash]

It was a .net that got in

[Advisor]

And nothing to do with Singapore or that general area of the world?

J

[lots0cash]

As a godless purveyor of gambling, I must say that it was a gambling site (universal appeal).

Check out the bottom paragraph on this
link (http://sg.docs.yahoo.com/info/suggest/appropriate.html)

[Advisor]

Pretty cool, Lotso! I'm surprised they don't at least check to see if the business itself is based in Singapore or something like that. I'm assuming it must be a non-US based address for the site if it's a gambling site. That didn't happen to be Singapore was it?

J

[lots0cash]

I checked out the submission policies VERY carefully and nowhere did I see where it says that the site has to be from .sg or that part of the world or have to be region specific. If you read the link I gave you in the last post you will see that you can submit to the general yahoo directory, at least that’s the way I read it.

Just an FYI Jill but its "Lots-ZERO-cash" ;)

[lots0cash]

The site had an Antigua (West Indies) address

[Advisor]

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone ever got a US site in that way! They must check for those.

Thanks for the info Lots-zero-Cash ;)

J

[lots0cash]

Jill, from the amount of views this thread has received I would be willing to say that you should have your answer in a few days.:p

[Advisor]

Now that Don, my attorney hubby, had a chance to read the whole Terms of Service, here's what he said:since this document covers everything that Yahoo does, which
is quite extensive, the language does not concern me. First, the definition
of Services seems to be outside the scope of the directory and, instead,
focuses on the "bells and whistles" such as communication tool, forums,
shopping services, and other capabilities. (Note: don't forget to pay your
telephony fees as required in Article 2.)

Even if the directory is part of the services I am still not concerned.
There is the legal maxim of "expression unius est exclusio alterius" (the
expression of one thing is the exclusion of another). This is an obnoxious
term that means that an express list of included items is also an implied
exclusion of items not listed. In other words, the list of the words
"reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell" limits the interpretation of the
word "exploit". The list of words echo copyright concerns. You cannot
exploit Yahoo's property rights in any manner akin to a copyright violation.

Your services in no way constitute a conversion of Yahoo's property rights.
For what it's worth!

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

Very good Jill. Thanks, Don.

All I would say is I was presented with those new Terms of Service just after I submitted a site. I guess I should have been presented with them BEFORE submitting a site if they were relevant to the submission process. Nice to know that Expedited Review is not a service, though. :)

[Advisor]

Glad you understood him, which is more than I can say for me! (I?)

I did notice in their TOS that it said other specific terms of service would supercede these TOS. So that made me think that the actual Yahoo Express terms of service supercede these ones. And the Express terms don't mention this stuff at all.

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

The story so far:

Submitted Friday 1 Feb. Accepted Saturday 2 Feb! But...

the category had been changed to a 14th level category! So deep it can't even be navigated to by drilldown. Maybe they are in the process of restructuring, but have they gone mad? It takes nine levels to get to the English town in which the business is based, and there are five more levels below that!

The description was also changed severely.

So far, then, the free Google listing looks like outperforming this paid submission.

I'll keep you informed. :rolleyes:

[Advisor]

Alan, are you going to try and appeal? It probably won't hurt to try.

J

[ihelpyou]

sheesh. Typical Yahoo stuff.

[MakeMeTop]

I submitted a test site Friday and it too was accepted on the Saturday. Category was the one I submitted to - Title and description unchanged :)

Guess I was lucky!

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by webwhiz
Alan, are you going to try and appeal? It probably won't hurt to try.Oh yes.Originally posted by MakeMeTop
Category was the one I submitted to - Title and description unchangedThanks, Barry. That makes me feel much better. :rolleyes:

[Advisor]

Thanks, Barry. That makes me feel much better. LOL, Alan. That's what you get for trying to get your site onto the main page of Yahoo and not drilling down into their categories! :green:

J

[MakeMeTop]

Having a look at the ones they put in on Saturday - they seem to have done that town thing with a lot of sites. The worst one seems to be in Milton Keynes. That wasn't yours was it Alan?

I got my nice, top category:

[edited out - 'cos I don't want the World to know the site - forgot which forum I was in]!

Appeal though - it has worked in the past for me - even with outright rejections.

[Alan Perkins]

No that wasn't mine. LOL. I didn't look too closely at the others but now I see there are some other really bad ones there. LOL.

[Alan Perkins]

After some thought I did not appeal the category. ;)

They handled the description appeal very nicely, thank you. :cool: