Potential Clients who Don't Respond

[Advisor]

Hey Guys...

Is it just me, or do you go to a ton of trouble and time putting together proposals for potential clients, only to never hear back (one way or the other) from them?

I find it extremely rude when these potential clients choose another vendor and never notify you that you didn't get the job. It's a lot of work to put together a proposal and I think the least they can do is let you know. What would be even nicer was if they could let you know, plus let you know why they chose the other firm. For instance, say they had a better price, or they were a better fit, or "we just don't like you" ;)

I can kind of understand how it's not high on their priority list to inform you when you don't get the job. But how about when you email them and ask about it? Shouldn't they at least have the common courtesy to tell you the status? A simple, we've gone with someone else, or we haven't decided, or it's on hold, would do. Many companies will answer this one, but I'm surprised at how many simply ignore me! Is it a question of not wanting to hurt someone's feelings? I realize people don't like to be the bearers of bad news, but geez!

I often wonder how many companies simply ask for proposals simply to "fish" for information on what's wrong with their site. What do you guys think about that?

I've been trying not to give too much information out in my proposals, and yet, if you give too little, they go with the guy that gave too much. I'm really struggling to find the happy medium with my proposals. I seem to spend half of my week working on them lately with the number I'm asked for. I guess I'm just frustrated because these potential clients don't seem to appreciate the amount of time involved in these things.

Interested in hearing how you all come to grips with this, and if you have the same problems.

Thanks!

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Jill, that is the way of 'sales' in general. In real life, that is how it happens as well. Nothing you can do about it.

That is precisely why I give out in the beginning the essentials and basics of what I do and that is it. Nothing more. I sell them on me and me alone. They take it or leave it. It does not seem to matter how much stuff you may put into a proposal as most have no idea what you are talking about anyway.

When my client goes with me, that is when they start to learn things about SEO. Not beforehand.

[Advisor]

That might work if you have just one general price for every site. Easy to say, it costs "x" amount and that's it. But isn't every site different? Do you charge the same for them all? When do you deterimine how many pages you'll do, or is the whole site included in what you do no matter what? Or is it just the main page?

So many sites have so many different needs, that I really need to take a close look at them to determine what needs to be done for that particular site, and then of course the price varies accordingly. I have a minimum amount I charge, but what each client gets for that amount can vary wildly depending on who the client is, what needs to be done on their site, and just generally if they seem like they'll be easy or hard to work with. (That last one doesn't really work very well. Seems the ones that seem easy end up being hard and vice versa!)

So I take it you don't send out any kind of proposal or quote, Doug?

J

[ihelpyou]

Absolutely not. It makes me no never mind if I have to optimize 20 pages for one site and 5 pages for another. I keep it simple as I do not take on big sites. It is only me or a part-timer or two if I need them. NO overhead is involved. Time for any particular site makes no difference to me. I know this is quite different from other ways, but by gosh, it works for me.

Here is an example of 'words' on a site by a SEO:
At the core of each project is our exclusive Preferred Content File Technology™ (PCF's) . These files add content, depth and staying power to your search engine listings without changing the look or feel of your site. The PCF's are a series of files designed around each of your primary key terms. Included in these files are optimally organized content along with a variety of other important ranking criteria. PCF's are created by hand after careful research is conducted about your business, competitors and primary key terms. Once completed, all files are your property and delivered to you to reside on your server.
Now tell me if an average joe web site owner would have a clue as to what the heck that means? I have NO clue. How would they? This is what I mean by keeping it very simple upfront. I sell myself. It really, really works.

[OptWizard]

WHiz...

I feel the same way I get all these emails send out proposals..2-3 weeks later nothing...So I call leave messages, email them ..still nothing then when you get a hold of them they either went with another company or decided not to do anything...kind of frustrating....

[MazY]

Funnily enough I am just tackling this very problem by installing an ASP driven system. (Spot the new VBMNet system on the VBMedia site.)

Each quotation etc will have a VBM number attached to it.

The client, after deciding, can just visit our site, enter the VBM number and hit accept or decline. If they accept then we will contact them further. If they decline, they are given a list of a few decline reasons so that we can determine trends.

If they don't complete either then we keep contacting them until they do. Either way, we will get a conclusion. :)

[ihelpyou]

Oh, another thing. There are very few phone calls I get that don't end up in another client. Potential clients want to figure out if they can trust you to help them acheive good ranks. This involves in 'selling yourself'. (sales 101)

Many also want to know just the basics about how you do it. Very simple for me to accomplish on the phone as I do not use any so-called "cunning technology" to acheive results. I make it simple. I tell them I am good, show them some examples, invite them to check around, look at their Url, then I make the decision on whether I will take them on as a client. Rarely is it the other way around.

[ihelpyou]

That is ingenious MazY! :cool:

[Advisor]

Well, Doug, your simpler way definitely can work with the small companies. I basically did the same thing for those companies in a previously life time. :D

Wait til you get in the MarketingSherpa report, though. I swear there are companies simply requesting proposals from everyone in the entire report. Who knows if they even choose anyone. Again, there's that fishing thing.

I have been working hard to bring down the amount of time I spend on each proposal. I do have a basic template (which much of it is simply selling ME), but I still gotta make some initial recommendations, and then also figure out a price. It's really not all that hard or even that time consuming, but a whole bunch of these in a week does add up to a lot of time spent. When you're competing with all the other well-known SEO firms, if you want any of the jobs, you gotta play the game. Now, I in no way expect to win all the jobs I bid for. Don't even want to as it would be way too much. But I'd like to at least know if I'm in the ballgame! I'd love to see what some of the other companies are sending out for proposals. In fact, I'd be willing to trade (privately) my proposal with some of the SEO firms proposals here. Especially some of the firms that deal with larger companies. I'm curious about price of course, but if you don't want to tell prices, even just seeing the other stuff would probably be helpful.

PM me if you're interested and have a proposal "template" kinda thing you want to trade.

Jill

[MazY]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
That is ingenious MazY! :cool:

All part of the pretty mammoth investment we're making in automation. We now have the Intranet completed, which links to the VBMNet system, which is accessed via the VBMedia parent site.

Our sub-contractors (and VBMedia of course) can now login and get client information, technical articles, standard sales letters, etc from the VBMNet system.

All part of my drive to get everyone reading from the same sheet! Taking a while but I'm getting there. I#m having a big colour drive at the moment where I won't let anything leave the building until I have approved the colours. Everyone has a fixed palette to work from.

All part of that famous world domination plan.... :)

[ihelpyou]

Wait til you get in the MarketingSherpa report, though. I swear there are companies simply requesting proposals from everyone in the entire report.
That's fine with me. It will simply mean more potential clients that I turn down. :D

Now, if I were also designing the site, etc, it would be an entirely different story. I know that by only accepting small to medium size sites, the way I do things is the way to go. I keep it simple.

[Advisor]

So, Doug, you charge the same price regardless of how many keyphrases you optimize for? Or do you only optimize each site for just a few phrases?

J

[ihelpyou]

It depends on the site Jill. Whether it's 5, 10, or 20, it makes no difference to me.

[MazY]

I'm with Doug. 5, 10, 20, 100 - what's the difference?

[SimpleQuery]

Please go on.

[ihelpyou]

Okay. This is your second warning 'simple'. Next time you make a post that helps no one you will be banned.

[Advisor]

Originally posted by MazY
I'm with Doug. 5, 10, 20, 100 - what's the difference? Really? Wow...big HUGE difference to me! Since I can only optimize each page for 2 or 3 phrases, the number of keyphrases they want to rank high with is the key factor in how much work we're talking about. Optimizing 1 page for 2 or 3 phrases takes a LOT less work than optimizing 100 pages for 200 - 300 phrases.

And then there's all the copywriting. The more phrases they need, the more pages that need to be rewritten, and the more I have to pay a copywriter (or the more I have to edit their existing text).

Big difference to me. HUGE difference to me!

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Yep, and that is the difference in taking on small-medium to taking on a large site.

Besides, if I target 10 phrases, the client ends up getting found and ranked on a lot more terms than that. It all depends on how you approach things.

[Kal]

Jill - I am in the same situation as you. Even though many of my clients are now small to medium sized, I also charge differently according to the number of pages they want optimized (hence number of key phrases based on my premise that we can really only optimize each page for 4 or 5 phrases).

What I did to save time and make things simple for potential clients was to set up a pricing structure based on 4 typical SEO packages (DIY, The Basics, The Works and Tailored). Have a look at my pricing page if you want more detail. What this did was to standardize the typical SEO campaigns I offer and the time spent on each.

I then developed a basic proposal template that incorporated costs for the first 3 packages, broken down separately so the viewer could see the inclusions/prices for each. The final "agreement" page asks the potential client to tick their chosen package, their maintenance options and sign off. This puts the onus on the client to choose according to their budget and requirements and I find they appreciate a choice rather than a pre-defined package.

My proposals may differ slightly for each client as they are tweaked a little based on my viewing the site, our email or phone conversations, but I find my basic proposal covers most clients just fine, no matter their requirements. It is a real time-saver for me, although waiting for their decision can be frustrating!

I always send 2 follow up emails to any proposal submission. The first one just asks if they've had time to read it and if they have any questions and the second says something like "No matter your decision, your feedback on our proposal will assist us to better serve our customers, so we would appreciate a response". Only works for 5 out of 10 cases though :rolleyes:

[MazY]

To see how we are experimenting to combat the situation:

http://www.vbmedia-web-services.co.uk/vbmtracker/

There's still a bug or two to iron out.

Once a quote is issued, it is entered into the database.

The database will then begin e-mail the recipient, after 3 days, every three days until they log on to VBMTracker and either accept or decline the quote.

Once they accept or decline it, the mails stop. They are also encouraged to enter a reason for the decline. We then process this through our own internal database and seek out the common trends as to why they are being declined.

[Kal]

I like the fact you have a "rather not say" option Maz, but to receive an email every 3 days until you opt out would annoy the c-r-a-p out of me and leave me with a bad impression of your firm :) Would be very intested to hear if this method works though.

[Advisor]

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. In many ways it could be great because they'll just answer the email to shut you up, but it's hard to say.

Jill

[sanity]

Fab idea, but I tend to agree with Kal and Jill that it may p*** people off. If they finally answer to shut you up you wonder if they'll then give their true reasons for not choosing you or be influenced by the fact they're annoyed and just say didn't like the firm.

Still am all for automation ;)

sanity

[MazY]

LOL I can add another option to the decline list "Got sick of receiving your bloody emails!"

On a more serious note - thanks for the feedback, I shall rethink my strategy...

[Advisor]

I'm thinking maybe once a week instead of every 3 days might be more appropriate, and could still have the same effect of getting them to eventually respond.

Jill

[MazY]

Once a week is a good idea. Course the bonus for adding these suggestions is that I have every intention of making it freely available to anyone that can make use of it.

All you need is the ability to host ASP. No ODBC connections required.

I just need to work on the admin side so that you can search for "Pending", "Accepted" and "Rejected" records, etc.

Should be about another week.

[sanity]

Maybe consider waiting even slightly longer than a week. You know how these things can go. The person you speak to needs to speak to their magager who needs to speak to the CEO and on and on. I find even when companies say they are in a hurry we have very different definitions of a hurry. For them it can take up to 2 weeks!!

Mazy, one idea would to send an email after a week saying we're following up our initial quote rah rah rah. If you have any questions click here, or if you've made you decision, log in accept or decline. The next email could then be more specific, accept or decline (or suffer the consequences). ;) Obviously it would need to be more eloquent than this.

sanity