WPG Gone From Google

[ihelpyou]

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awebposition.com&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

It's about time IMO. They don't show up on anything at all.

I feel Google needs to get rid of "all" auto tools that query their database. These tools send the wrong signal to newbies and webmasters alike about what is "really" important. Auto quering Google is NOT what is important.

And if Google is listening; I think you should also stop your API thingie. I feel this tool is not condusive to showing newbies and webmasters and site owners "exactly" what they should be putting as priorities for the success of their website. The API does not do this at all. Get rid of it.

While you are at it; get rid of "all" auto tools that query your database. Your visitors who search don't need to be finding them to use them. The degeneration affect will continue as long as these types of tools exist and are available to find easily.

Kudus to Google for finally getting rid of one big problem in this industry.

[Connie]

Looks like a another violator of the Guidelines has bit the dust. :D

I think it is only a matter of time before others who disregard the Guidelines will follow suite.

[polarmate]

About time this happened. Too many small businesses have been burned.

I found this forum about 3 years ago because my company used an SEO that was highly recommended by WPG. The SEO's web site has also been PR0'd for a while now.

I've never used WPG so I can't comment on the tool. My boss did at one time because that was the "most recommended tool" at the time. There are a lot of well-known SEOs who used to carry ranking reports on their web sites generated by WPG. They did not query Google but instead queried AOL for Google results. Such so-called white-hat SEOs kept renewing the lease on life that WPG had. I haven't looked lately so I don't know if those reports still exist on the web sites of those SEOs. If they took them off, I'd say high time they did that, too.

[qwerty]

I used it years ago, and didn't like it. I stopped using before I even knew the search engines didn't like what it did.

However, I read somewhere just this week that the latest version of WPG uses the Google API. If that's true, then it shouldn't be an issue for them.

[Dave Hawley]

OUCH! That's gotta hurt! Wonder why now after so long though?

[Connie]

Bob my story would be pretty much the same as yours.

I think WPG introduced the API too late if you look at the date of the post in the thread at SEW. The post was in Dec 2004. It has only been recently that I saw anything about the API.

[polarmate]

Does the software auto-update? If it doesn't, then there are copies out there that are querying Google without an API.

My grouse with WPG is that they used their reputation to recommend an SEO firm that took us for a nice ride. I allowed a three hyphened domain name that had been registered for us, to expire this year. :rolleyes:

[Connie]

No it does not auto update at least back when I first purchased it. You had to pay for updates.

I think I paid for 1 but don't remember for sure.

The querying IPs in reality should be the one blocked or peanilized. Since the majority of users of WPG are probably not on Static IPs Google has finally taken a step against the software.

It is named specifically in the guidelines as a tool not to use.

[Connie]

Originally posted by Dave Hawley
OUCH! That's gotta hurt! Wonder why now after so long though?

Dave I think it is just part of what is going on with Google right now in regard to Spam and violators of the guide lines.

I also think we will be seeing some of those sites that Doug feels so strongly against coming under penalities in the future. WPG was just the first of many that will come because they have developed tools that violate the guide lines IMO.

[Comeran]

I don't know about many areas of Google, but golf related stores I am VERY familiar with, and I have seen a few companies consistantly break the google guidlines and reap the rewards of years as a top 10 in many competitive key terms :p

It will be interesting to see if any of them get the boot in upcoming updates.

[Irony]

Originally posted by Connie
I also think we will be seeing some of those sites that Doug feels so strongly against coming under penalities in the future.


Connie, you hit on it!

Doug, I think everyone in this industry who is doing anything even remotely unethical, should be mortally afraid of you now, more than ever.

You start a "rant" thread about SEO Inc. sending spammy link requests, and a few days later Google kills seoinc.com.

You rant a bit about "tools", and - behold! - webposition.com is trashed before long.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but somehow I doubt it :confused:

Please keep up the good work :cheers:

[Connie]

Connie, you hit on it!
Google is doing the hitting. It's fun to watch though. :D :D

[ihelpyou]

Naw; Google is not doing things by reading here. Not at all. They've been eyeing all of these auto programs for along time now. They have also been watching link scheming firms for along time now as well. It's certainly not surprising they are now taking action.

We have been warning members and viewers in here since inception about what's down the line. At least no one can say we did not "tell you so". :)

[Quadrille]

What amuses me is the whines on certain forums about "why penalize one when 50 others do the same" - they don't seem to grasp that an apparently random selection increases the fear among spammers, and allows G to tackle several different areas of abuse, rather than a 'total cleanup' of one area.

I'm also impressed by the number of idiots going on about censorship and 'respect for Google falling' - Hello? Since when did anyone have to provide hospitality services for people openly tryingto undermine them?

And wiping spammers is increasing respect for Google by the yard - with the people that matter (ie searchers, not spammers).

I've not felt so optimistic about future search quality for years; I LOVE it!

[nuthin]

it seems Google is cutting down now on names in the industry, obviously sending out a clear message.

when i type in search engine optimisation or search engine optimization, Google's webmaster/seo guidelines page features, never did before.

seems they want to send a message to the whole industry.

[ihelpyou]

I LOVE IT !!

Quadrille: GREAT posts over there.

It's sooooo damn funny to see spammers and others who "protect" spammers all crying right now. LOLOL

It's soooo hard to believe that people believe Google should be tied up and not able to "do as they damn well please" with their "own" website and index.

Trust me; I own "these" forums. I can do whatever the heck I wish to do with the database, and do so at anytime I wish to do it.

Will someone try to tell me otherwise? Why do people think and believe that Google cannot do something with their own database of pages? Where's the beef?

WPG should have been "gone" from Google aloooooong time ago. Even their "new" Google API is violating the Google TOS. Can't people read?

Is this SEO/SEM industry really this stupid and ignorant?

I agree with you completely Quadrille. It's about damn time Google started "manually" doing stuff. It's their right to do as they please. They owe no one an explanation, nor should they give a reason for anything they do. Giving spammers reasons for a penalty or a ban is simply helping the spammers. How could that be helping the Google search engine?

Goodness; I'm laughing sooo hard at the absurdity of this industry at "other places" that it's making my stomach hurt.

[qwerty]

Great posts over where?

[ihelpyou]

Spammers at SEW are crying over WPG now. Others there seem to say that Google should be hog-tied with a lasso.

My sides are hurting.

[ihelpyou]

Not only has WPG quto-queried Google for years and years, but they have been the source of "cranked" out garbage doorway pages for years and years as well.

And to top it off; Their crappy software is NOT needed by anyone,... especially webmasters, website owners, and SEO's or designers.

Google should go "one-by-one" and delist every single program out there geared towards search engines that query engine databases. There is NO NEED for such programs. They all are crap.

Google could pay me "pennies" and I'd gladly point out ALL such programs to them. Actually, I'd do it for free. It's high time they started taking a stand on such firms. Hopefully we will see MUCH more manual tweaking in this industry that gets rid of the bad apples that are holding the industry down.

[Florence]

I wouldn't argue against the delisting of WPG but I do think it's inconsistant to take adwords money to advertise it and then refuse to list the product. If Google have the ethics to drop a site for whatever reason then they should drop ads for it too, especially ones which point at the banned website.

Plus I'm sorry Doug but I can't agree that Google should delist something just because you personally feel it's crap. The listings for SEO forums would be pretty sparse wouldn't they? :D

[ihelpyou]

But hey; Adwords is a different division. I don't recall talking about that department in this thread.

Don't think for one second that I agree with Google Adwords in "allowing" anyone and anything to advertise. If up to me; I'd be screening the damn advertisers as well. I don't agree with Google Adwords on this.

It's the same thing with "paid advertising" in this industry as a whole. I don't agree with any of it.

And BTW: My goal is to do something about it. More to come. :)

As far as the "organic" "FREE" results are concerned; Google can do as they please. Then can auto tweak, ban, manually remove, or anything else they want to do with their database. It's up to them.

Just don't think for a minute I endorse Adwords.... because I don't. Neither do I endorse any other "entity" who touts and takes monies from any and all spammer firms. This includes Yahoo/Overture and all other firms of PPC who take spammer's money to tout their wares. This includes "all" conferences and seminars, and such who take spammer's money to tout their wares as well.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
Neither do I endorse any other "entity" who touts and takes monies from any and all spammer firms.Nor I. But I do allow myself a snigger when I hear that companies who have received the Wrath of Google are still paying them money. By choice.

How stupid are these spammers? :D

[srikanthsh]

:D

[ihelpyou]

LOL Yeah.

You would think spammers would take the little hint we give in here, and Google gives out there...........

DON'T SPAM.

But Nooooooooo. Spammers have to see what they can get away with, and for how long. They don't think about the consequences if caught.

So what do they do when caught? That's right....... they pay Google this time for their stupid and ignorant spam. How ironic is that? :D

[Florence]

so were WPG spamming?

[Connie]

# Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.

This is a quote from WebMaster Guidelines (http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html) I'm surprised this was not done a long time ago.

[st0n3y]

Well, I have to say it was the original Web Position that got me into the industry. Way back when I used WPG to check pages against their critic but gave that up. I don't know if I ever even paid for an update.

I do know that WPG now allows for using the API but that is also optional, you can still query Google without it.

My thought is that adding the Google API was a last straw for Google, though I thought it was a smart move on WPGs part.

[g1smd]

This may have recently disappeared:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&filter=0&q=site%3Awebposition.com


But, this is still indexed though:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&filter=0&q=site%3Aweb-positiongold.com

[st0n3y]

That second link looks like its from an affiliate, not an official 1st Place Software web site.

[ihelpyou]

Yep.

webposition and webpositiongold are the two sites owned by the owners of WPG software.

Florence; If they query Google for years against the TOS, I'd call that spamming, right? Even now; They have this API thing, but they still query Google, right? The TOS states "to be used for non-commercial". Is WPG querying Google for non-profit?

Let's talk about the bogus millions of doorway pages that WPG has helped produce over the years. Does Google like those pages?

I'd say it's about darn time WPG was gone. Other software "will" be next.

[ihelpyou]

No matter 'who' might be next, the big warning Google is giving is certainly working. :D

It makes no difference if no other software is next. They all have their feathers in ruffles right now wondering if and when they are actually next. Spammers of all walks of life are scurrying to and fro wondering if they are next. Google is doing good.

It's a joy reading people out there who clearly are in a state of "oh my" these days. You big bully you, Google. :D

[g1smd]

Eh?

http://www.searchengineworld.com/

[Connie]

Interesting page for that link G1. I'm not familiar with http://www.searchengineworld.com/ but looks like a forum might have bit the dust.

[ihelpyou]

I wonder why he took that domain offline? It's been online for years.

http://www.webmasterworld.com/

Still there.

[polarmate]

It's still there:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=site%3Asearchengineworld.com&btnG=Search

Most of it anyway.

[ihelpyou]

yeah, but I mean the front page is "offline" with nothing there. I know it's still in Google. It's just strange is all.

[qwerty]

I just remembered something. Didn't WPG/First Place get bought by WebTrends about half a year ago? I wonder how they're feeling about all this.

[ihelpyou]

Yes they did. I gave Webtrends a warning in here when they did. I think that was about one year ago, right?

[qwerty]

Yup. April of last year: http://www.webposition.com/news/releases/04052004FPS.asp

[Irony]

Forums sometimes get taken offline because they have been hacked - it takes time to restore the stuff from backups.

[Florence]

If they query Google for years against the TOS, I'd call that spamming, right? Even now; They have this API thing, but they still query Google, right? The TOS states "to be used for non-commercial". Is WPG querying Google for non-profit?

ah - ok - it wouldn't fall into what I call spamming no - but this whole conversation makes more sense now I know that you do.

[ihelpyou]

I thought it was obvious that many of us in here regard all that as spam. The fact they have been the source for "millions" of bogus doorway pages as well.

It's not just WPG who does this. It's a good first step however, and a very good message being sent. :)

[g1smd]

Ok, so if SEW isn't the "dead" forum (the dead forum also being "a" "SEW") that I linked to above, then where is the real SEW?

[ihelpyou]

Brett use to have:

searchengineworld.com as an information type website. That is what isn't there anymore. His forums are still up and running at webmasterworld.com.

[Connie]

SEW forums are here forums.searchenginewatch.com

[g1smd]

Ah! searchenginewatch, not searchengineworld.