Ink Optimization

[pageoneresults]

Here's the secret formula. Quick, write it down, I'm going to delete this text in 24 hours!

1. Keyword phrase in page title. (Try the middle!) ;)

2. Keyword phrase at the beginning of your META description.

3. Keyword phrase at the beginning of your META keywords.

4. Keyword phrase at the beginning of your visible content in an <h1> element. Top of page is a must! Right under a graphic header is fine.

5. Keyword phrase in your first visible paragraph.

6. Keyword phrase in your second visible paragraph.

Note: Ink likes content and I suggest at least 4 to 5 paragraphs of text using a combination of the targeted keyword phrase and relative secondary phrases.

7. Keyword phrase in <li> tag.

8. Keywords used in text hyperlinks and bookmarks.

9. Keyword phrase in <alt> tag. Use appropriate image and relative keywords for the <alt> tag, don't stuff!

Other options:

1. Keyword phrase in e-mail address i.e. keywordphrase @ yoursite.com.
2. Keyword phrase in <a title> tag. I'm testing this one now after stumbling across it not long ago only to find out that is how Doug has gotten his pageoneresults!

3. Close the page off with a link to the next page in succession if applicable. Make sure to use a targeted keyword combination in that link.

Additional tags that I think add relevance:

<dl>, <dd>, <li>, <ol>, <ul>, <blockquote>

Additional Hints

1. External .css.

2. External .js.

3. Includes (SSI's) seem to work well in establishing theme as long as your links are properly structured.

There are a few more things that I did not mention and I'm sure most of you will know what they are. Feel free to add or subtract from the list. Remember, you have 24 hours!

Actually this formula works for most engines across the board. Its all about structure and understanding what certain tags can do to add relevance. Its also about positioning the elements to achieve the best exposure.

There is a little more to it than this. This covers the basics and should result in high ranking pages as long as you are not in an industry that is "extremely competitive".

Remember, its not about a single page! Its about a network of pages that are structured and interlinked properly for this formula to work.

Pay to play! Don't wait for Slurp to come around. Pay the $25.00 per URL to get the 48-72 hour indexing. Its worth it if you have the right products and/or services. I utilize Position Technologies.

[markymark]

I've always done well with Ink and follow a similar approach, but I was interested in your claim that it is 'not about a single page' . Surely with paid inclusion, that is exactly what it is about as Ink spiders only the page that you have paid for.

Another Ink. optimisation tip is targeting second-string keyphrases. Seeing as Inktomi listings often appear behind those of another search engine or directory (ie: Looksmart at MSN), there is little value in optimising for the most obvious keywords for your site as the best you can ever do is 1 place below Looksmart or PPC listings. Aim for more specific, targeted phrases that are not covered by Looksmart listings and you will reap the rewards.

[highman]

Some good points pageone, I would however add that you need to be in the BOW db (esp. if your field is competitive) for these optimisation tips to work, I recently struggled with every optimisation technique possible and could not get anywhere, then 2 months later... bingo, position 1 underneath the LS listings, I believe it was due to the site being moved to the BOW database.

One point,Includes (SSI's) seem to work well in establishing theme as long as your links are properly structured.

dont understand that, what difference does a SSI make? its only server side, or are you saying use a common link / menu in all pages?

[MakeMeTop]

Pretty good list of how to do it pageone :)

A couple of comments that may be useful:

I've found that you can use <h1> or any other <h> tag as long as you use them in the right order so (for example) using an <h3> for the first heading and then maybe an <h4> for a paragraph heading work the same as an <h1> and <h2>. Personally I tend to use the <h2> tag for the first heading.

I also have the first sentence of the first paragraph in a <b> tag including the keyword and do the same with the last sentence on the page. Seems to work well ;)

[Farhan]

Highman,
I am not clear with your BOW thing. I visited the url someone gave in this forum for BOW. it was like bestofweb.com. I did a search on it and found some PPC results. :confused:

how do you get in there - plz explain.

[highman]

Hi Farhan,

BOW (bestoftheweb) is one of 4 (i believe) inktomi databases, Inktomi selects when your site gets into the BOW db, more here (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1659&highlight=bow)

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by Farhan
I am not clear with your BOW thing. I visited the url someone gave in this forum for BOW. it was like bestofweb.com. I did a search on it and found some PPC results. :confused:

how do you get in there - plz explain.

That info was wrong. http://www.bestofweb.com/ has nothing to do with Inktomi BOW. Follow the link highman gives above and read the whole thread. :)

[nitewing2]

Please tell me how to find out if your website is already in the BOW database?

Thanks,

Nitewing2

[Advisor]

Geez...with those requirements it seems as if you might as well simply say:

KEYWORD PHRASE keyword phrase keyword phrase keyword phrase....

etc., etc. Bet they'd love a page full of keyword phrases!

I do think that the BOW thing probably makes a big difference too. Waiting patiently for my page to become a bow so I can get more than one click on it!

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

I believe any Paid Inclusion page is automatically in BOW. So you ARE getting the clicks Jill.

Sorry nitewing2 I don't know the answer to your question. A good rule of thumb would be a page with a good Google Pagerank would probably be in BOW. If you could find an INK partner that only took the BOW database, you could search that partner. I don't know of such a partner but maybe some of the INK specialists do.

The way I see it, if you have a good Web site you shouldn't have to try to get into BOW. You should either be there, or BOW isn't really BOW. :)

[Advisor]

I believe any Paid Inclusion page is automatically in BOW. Not according to what I remember Highman telling us before. I could have sworn he said it takes a few months even after you've paid to be included.

Highman, am I misinterpretting this?

Jill

[highman]

KEYWORD PHRASE keyword phrase keyword phrase keyword phrase....

.....lol, that will be INK then ;)

I believe any Paid Inclusion page is automatically in BOW.

No, not the case, paid inclusion enters you into the 'paid inc' db, it takes time and good rankings to be moved into the BOW db. I dont know of any sure way of finding out if your in the BOW or not. If you find you cannot out rank those sites above you in the INK results whatever you do then its prob a safe bet that they are in BOW and your not.

[Advisor]

it takes time and good rankings Oh man, the direct hit catch 22! I never could understand how that could work. If you need good rankings (or clicks), but you can't get good rankings...etc., etc...

J

[highman]

Sorry, to be clear.

IMO you need good ranks in 'other' SE to be considered good enough to be in the BOW.

Im not sure what SE, its def not LSmart or Yahoo, thats for sure.

Maybe its some manual check on the site and not overall good rankings, difficult to test. If anyone else has experiance of this sudden jump to the BOW db and subsequent ranking boost then speak up and we can compare notes ;)

[nitewing2]

If they don't provide a way to check and see if your site is in BOW that sure would not be a good selling point for their service, would it?

Ann

[Advisor]

Nitewing, I don't think they actually even tell people about the whole BOW thing. It's more of an inside secret.

J

[Alan Perkins]

No they're very open about it:

http://www.inktomi.com/products/search/web.html

It contains 110M document. I doubt they are all hand-picked. I doubt they are automatically judged on their content. I would think link analysis is used to select them. I thought payment was an over-ride to that but I would be happy if I was wrong.

Do any INK partners take only BOW?

[highman]

>Do any INK partners take only BOW?

Good Question, needs some research me feels, MMT may know more...

[Farhan]

OK I take this,

apart from the SEO techniques, you need to be in the BOW to rank well in Ink powered results. BOW is one of the four db used by ink. To get in the BOW you need to do give your site a paid inclusion treatment. No matter how much tweaking you do to your site, the actual change in rankings are experinced in a month or whenever the BOW db is updated.

did i got it?

[highman]

nearly, paying does not automaticly get you in to BOW, not sure exactly what does, but it must be some sort of analysis of the site / links / popularity / luck

note; you dont ness. need to be in BOW to rank top for your key phrase, it depends on the competition for that phrase.

When I intially noticed this BOW effect I was trying to get #15 spot in MSN which would have put me on the first page for a nice phrase, right under the LS listings, but I could not get above #36 ( i think) because all the other Ink sites were in BOW and so restricted my upward climb, now Im in BOW im #15 on page 1 :)

[ihelpyou]

Well, I'm not so sure you have to pay to get into BOW.

I think that getting into Looksmart helps with getting into BOW just like paying for Ink helps. Just not sure about the 'paying' aspect of getting into BOW.

[nitewing2]

Question????????

If you say, I'm in BOW because your rank or hits are better are you simply assuming this to be a fact or can you check it out for sure?????

Methinks I don't take anything but God on faith.

Ann

[highman]

I think you may be right, paying does not GET you into BOW, it just gets you spidered, thats all.

Most of the sites in BOW I bet have not paid a thing, they have been there for years.

The question is dare I let my one paid ink listing run out at PTech to see If I get dropped from BOW?......... I think not :)

[nitewing2]

Just checked MSN, drats, I am still number two on their top ten astrology sites....

DRAT! :rolleyes:

Ann

BTW Does this mean I am in the BOW database?????

I hope.

[Alan Perkins]

Nobody said you have to pay. I said I thought paying was one way to get in - not the only way! Sorry for any confusion.

I do know that paying removes the "uncrawled" spam penalty that submitted pages have. Normally this penalty is removed when a crawler finds the page naturally. Paying gets the penalty removed without the crawler having to find the page. Good for dynamic pages.

[highman]

are you simply assuming this to be a fact or can you check it out for sure?????

assuming is a bit harsh, as with most optimisation theories, it is very difficult to be sure, but, I would say its a 'damn good guess' that my pet site jumped from the paid inclusion db (cause I paid for it to be spidered) to the BOW by the sudden jump of around 20 positions without me changing a thing. (I had given up on getting a decent ranking at MSN without using LSmart)

It is also permantly routed to its position (rushes off to check..... yep still there) no matter what I do to the page / site (within reason)

[nitewing2]

Well,
IMHO, with no way to check it is still an assumption...maybe a good guess but still a guess.

Ann

[MakeMeTop]

Best of the Web Inktomi DB is nothing at all to do with paid inclusion. You can added to BOW with or without having paid pages. The best (and quickest) way to get into BOW initially is to have a link from a site already in the BOW database.

This is easier said than done. It used to be (when Inktomi served results to Yahoo) that a Yahoo link would get you on the first step - from what I've seen recently this seems no longer to be the case but will help with your link popularity. A similar thing seems to have happened with ODP - which also used to help.

I have got parked domain pages into BOW initially simply by having a link to them from my site (which is in BOW). Removed the link and out they went. The more BOW sites you have linked to you - the better (and more sticky) your site is. A high ranking BOW site is almost impossible to budge through paid inclusion - a site that is in BOW AND is in paid inclusion is even harder to budge. LookSmart US listings do help your rankings but I've not seen sites in LookSmart get into BOW just through that submission. LookSmart UK has no influence at all :(

After a site has been initially entered into BOW it seems that click throughs are (sometime) measured as are the consistancy and quality of the sites linking to you and their relative 'status' on the web. This is not as refined as Google's PageRank (IMHO) and I have seen SEOs using cross linking to boost client sites this way and maintain their BOW position.

Other things that make a BOW site difficult to beat seem to be site theme. Your site will be deep spidered (I have over 100 pages from my site in Inktomi) but the major influence seems to be for my home page appearing in the results.

An easy way to find out if a site is in BOW (or is in the intermediary - revolving index from which BOW sites are selected) is to do a search on MSN. If it is a competitive area like 'search engine optimisation' you will (when you look at 'web pages') see an Inktomi redirect code for a paid inclusion page and no redirect code for one which is not.

In this example, you will see that (currently) Webplacing is in the top 2 places with different domains. The first is pure BOW (and actually was a total surprise to everyone - it got there purely through being linked to - including a link from Webplacing's other BOW site) as the second site was the one which was expected to rank - it is in paid inclusion and BOW, as am I next. Epositioning got their first site into BOW about a year ago and now have 4 sites listed in BOW by doing cross linking between their clients and their various sites - so is an example of SEO manipulation of BOW (although it took more than a year for this to show up) - they have no paid inclusion, the next site BOW and so on until Receptional which is also BOW and paid inclusion. After Receptional it appears that other sites are intermediary (BOW possible sites) with or without paid inclusion.

I have seen many people trying to put together pages and pay Ink to push the BOW sites aside over the last year or so - and it has proven tough to do - but I'm sure it will happen - when/if their sites get into BOW also.

Even for 'search engine optimization' where Doug ranks #8 (you're in BOW - Doug) on (what I would have thought was a pretty good list of top SEO sites - no spam there) - I rank at #13 - and this is for a term I have not really optimised for - it is site theme and back up from Looksmart (it shows my LS description for this term - but my Ink one if you search with an 's'). You can check these results out at the pure Ink results now showing at AOL.

Hope that tries to explain a little of my findings about BOW and I stand to be corrected/informed if my research is wildly out :)

Answers to a couple of questions:

When paid inclusion started no check was made to see if sites which were in paid inclusion were in BOW (it was assumed they wouldn't pay) and so 2 listings appeared. This got changed after a few weeks so that Ink checked to see if you were in paid inclusion and BOW - if you were in both, they served your paid inclusion result in your BOW position (adjusted slightly for any changes you had). People (like me) noticed that they were in BOW and stopped paid inclusion - we dropped out of the rankings until the next BOW update - when the BOW DB was again checked against the paid-inclusion index. This occurs every 6 weeks or so.

Be very careful about changing your home page if you are in BOW, these changes WILL show up and can effect your rankings -
if you fall - it can take an age (months) to climb back up again. Leave well enough alone - if at all possible. However, the only sites you have to worry about are other BOW sites (provided you are well optimised) - pure paid inclusion will not impact your site.

[highman]

I can confirm that a Yahoo or LSmart listing is not required for BOW, I did get into BOW after obtaining a very sweet link... way off theme but sweet none the less.....it would appear that my paid for listing which is now in BOW has lost its ink redirect from the URL whereas another page buried for the same term has retained its redirect url.
This would seem to be the opposite of what you are saying about getting into BOW and having two listings and the BOW being dropped, it would suggest that the paid (ink redirect) url is dropped

Barry, would you say I drop the paid for listing? in the hope of retaining my BOW listing..... not sure I will for the cost though.

The page did not exist before its paid inclusion.

Good Stuff

[MakeMeTop]

This is an assumption - but I believe that if you have just been added to BOW this listing has superceded your paid-inclusion listing for now. The redirect URL will probably return after the next update when they will do their comparison. It looks (from what you are saying) that they do the comparison prior to adding new sites.

I would leave well enough alone! If you stop paying you will drop out for up to 8 weeks. I was lucky and got back in after 3 weeks - but I bit my nails! Now I've put my home page back in paid inclusion because it does now allow me to tweak every so often and I can see the results show between main updates.

Well done for getting in - it is not easy :)

[highman]

I will watch the URL and see if the redirect returns, no I dont think I will drop the paid listing :)

To think how hard I tried to beat the sites above me without knowing about BOW, geeez could drive a man mad!
Once in BOW though all that optimisation acted like a cork out'a bottle :cheers:

Might try the sweet link theory on a new site.....

[sanity]

Wow Barry, thanks for your insightful post :cool:

Does it have to be the homepage that's in BOW? I have a client and for INK as well as Goggle the first page that appeas in the results is always the About Page - and it ain't that special nor paid for. I have paid for the homepage and a couple of other pages and in INK my main keyword phrase always brings up the About page in position 5 but not the paid. For another phrase a paid page comes in at pos 1 and the About at pos 2. I just don't see why INK or Google like the page so much :confused:

sanity

[pageoneresults]

Geez...with those requirements it seems as if you might as well simply say:

KEYWORD PHRASE keyword phrase keyword phrase keyword phrase....

etc., etc. Bet they'd love a page full of keyword phrases!Yes I know, when I reread that post I thought the same thing but you have to read between the lines. It may seem like keyword, keyword, keyword, but when you add in everything between the lines, you get a balance of keyword phrases that works just right without being spammy.

I also forgot to mention that you invert phrases during your copyrighting if applicable. There are many different ways to describe a product and/or service. Blending the keyword phrases into spider friendly content and most importantly user friendly content, is the challenge!

[pageoneresults]

Edited due to ignorance!

[Advisor]

Yes I now, when I reread that post I thought the same thing but you have to read
between the lines. Oh, yes, I realize that. It was just the first thing that struck me when reading what you wrote. The trick of course is using those different options as appropriate, not necessarily everything at once!

J

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
How big is their database? I could not find any information about the company from the web site and I may not be looking hard enough. Even searches for their name brought up zero results.


BOW is NOT bestofweb.com

BOW is one of several Inktomi databases. More details on this page:

http://www.inktomi.com/products/search/web.html

[pageoneresults]

I don't feel so bad, there were quite a few others who were on the same path as I.

Okay, so now I'm still going play ignorant. Where do I go to find results from this Best of the Web collection. I know they say it is a Web Map and not a searchable database, where are you getting your results from to determine whether or not you are in the BOW?

P.S. You will probably tell me to utilize any one of the Inktomi partners. How do I know which database is being utilized? Jeez, I sound like an amateur huh?

I've never really dug that deep into Ink. Since I've always done well with Ink I never gave it a second thought. I mean, I used the Yahoo!/Ink results for a few years and use to rely on canada.com and anzwers when those affiliations were active. Today I rely on AOL, Overture and a few other Ink partners for results. And then there is always pure Ink search from PT. By the way, which of the databases does PT pure Ink search use?

[pageoneresults]

I just reread all of the posts conerning the BOW and it finally sunk in. You know, I've done nothing but paid inclusion since PT first released it. I've lost touch with anything other than paid inclusion.

Since its inception (paid inclusion), I've recommended it to all of my prospects and clients and they have budgeted for it so I never had to use the free submit route.

Thank you for alerting us to the BOW issue. Here we go with some more sleepless weeks!

P.S. I was beginning to question my knowledge of the industry, I still am! ;)

[ihelpyou]

LOL PO. That is the beauty of this industry. We all learn things daily. Things almost change daily as well with new stuff and events and challenges. Never a dull moment. This is why I am very happy I ended up doing this kind of stuff.

Who'd a thunkit just 5 years ago or so? Certainly not my family or friends as I have always been the company man who dealt with the public driving around the countryside. Never in my dreams did I see myself as some computer guy/geek type sitting in front of a puter 24/7. LOL

Heck, I was a sports jock in high school and even played a little in college. Heck, I took exactly zero computer courses in college. Now, I can't imagine doing anything different than this.

Always exciting and always learning.

Who'd a thunkit?? LOL

[Advisor]

Doug, when did you get your first computer?

J

[ihelpyou]

In 1996 sometime. Did lotsa chatting, etc, visited the few sports sites, and was just in awe about things, and completely clueless. LOL

[Advisor]

That's what this board needs...a chat feature! Then we could really party!

J

[ihelpyou]

LOL. I think it may take away from the content areas if we did that. Besides, there is always the 'private' PM's you all send back and forth. :)

[daweller]

:hi: Hey ihelpyou...

Maybe I missed it on your website... but can you give a balpark of what one pays for the optimization of 1 page for Inktomi?

I submitted my site yesterday... but I dunno how to optimize myself (I am a wysiwyg user)

It's a 1 page site. I want to optimize for "free cell phone" or similar ( I realize "free cell phone" may be too popular ).

Thanks for any info,
Dave:)

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums daweller! :hi:

I don't do one page sites and only for Inktomi. Ask questions in here about your page. Why is it just one page? Is it a doorway page?

We will need the url to help you with it.

[rmridgew]

i updated one of my sites a few months ago, to find out today that i spelled a word wrong in a link. does ink penalize a site for broken links. and also i have a page listed under domain/index.html even though i have REsubstituted it with only the domain through positiontech. is the submit feature not working or is this something else.


thanks


one last thing, i have really lost position with aol & msn even though I cannot tell as big a difference with my pure inktomi results.

has something changed with aol & msn and has anyone else had a problem?

[bigDugan]

>the 'private' PM's :cute:

[JuniorHarris]

Excellent response by MakeMetop!~:up:

Your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated!~ :read:

[OptWizard]

>>>In this example, you will see that (currently) Webplacing is in the top 2 places with different domains. The first is pure BOW (and actually was a total surprise to everyone - it got there purely through being linked to - including a link from Webplacing's other BOW site) as the second site was the one which was expected to rank - it is in paid inclusion and BOW, as am I next. Epositioning got their first site into BOW about a year ago and now have 4 sites listed in BOW by doing cross linking between their clients and their various sites - so is an example of SEO manipulation of BOW (although it took more than a year for this to show up) - they have no paid inclusion, the next site BOW and so on until Receptional which is also BOW and paid inclusion. After Receptional it appears that other sites are intermediary (BOW possible sites) with or without paid inclusion<<<<<

I looked at this and can someone one tell me if I am reading this right...The redirects are paid inclusion lisitngs correct (http://redirect-west.inktomi.com/click?...... this is paid?)

The redirects that have
http://r.lksm.com/go/t=14:12086|100243539;g=website name
are looksmart directory lisitngs

and the ones that have no resirects are BOW listings right?

Now is you have an ink paid inclusion redirect and are in the top fold most likely thats a paid and BOW..

Can someone please let me know if I am reading this right?

[Alan Perkins]

I really regret having got involved in this thread. I normally don't pay such close attention to individual ways that search engines work. I like to treat them as black boxes.

However, I do attend a lot of the SES conferences and I did remember something being said at one of them about Paid Inclusion and BOW, which I did mention earlier in this thread.

At last week's conference I checked my recollection directly with Inktomi and it was right. PI pages are currently automatically put into BOW. Apparently that is due to change soon so don't go relying on it for much longer. But that is the case now and has been for a while, maybe since PI was launched.

The thing is once a PI page is in BOW it still has to compete with other BOW pages, and it might REALLY struggle on Link Popularity, since that seems to be the key to getting into BOW for free.

That's it from me in this thread!

[MakeMeTop]

The redirects show paid inclusion if they are Inktomi and LookListings if they are LookSmart - standard LS sites don't show a redirect.

[OptWizard]

>>>The redirects show paid inclusion if they are Inktomi and LookListings if they are LookSmart - standard LS sites don't show a redirect.<<<

Yes the paid inclusion are the only ones that show redirect correct? How can you tell if a site has a Look redirect how can you tell if it is BOW? I guess I am asking how can you tell if a redirect is also in BOW?

Also ALan stated PI = that your in BOW is this true?

[MakeMeTop]

You are served with the BOW pages - you are not in their permanent BOW DB on PI. Frankly, I don't think it makes much difference if you the pages are served with BOW or GEN3 - the link popularity element is the tough thing to beat with BOW sites against a paid site.

[OptWizard]

I gues I am not asking my question clearly :(

If a site is PI and in top 5 is it safe to say that it is a PI AND BOW site?

Next question is:

If you use PI does this mean you are in BOW. If so to get high rankings in MSN you need that linkpop and theme going for your site.

Lastly

Is it the more sites you link to BOW the better ?

[MakeMeTop]

>If a site is PI and in top 5 is it safe to say that it is a PI AND BOW site?

Unfortunately, not always - but if it is a competitive area it is almost certainly true.

>If you use PI does this mean you are in BOW. If so to get high rankings in MSN you need that linkpop and theme going for your site.

Imagine BOW as a DB with a load of URL content in it and lots of information about links to those URLs. PI gets your URL put on the DB, but no information about links etc. When a search is done the BOW DB is searched to see if there any relevant URLs - it finds them and then sorts them to see which has the better Page Rank (for want of a better term). A URL with a high rating but less optimized may rank higher than a well-optimized page that is in PI only. So, yes - theme and links are important - but you can't get these through PI - only through Inktomi building up the information through its' web map and then (in due course) passing that information to the BOW DB - this can take an age though. This is an oversimplification as all of this data is also mixed with the GEN3 data etc. - but may help.

>Is it the more sites you link to BOW the better ?

The more sites that are in BOW that link to you the better it is - the more on theme the sites that link to you are the better it is.

If you would like me to try and see if you are in (non-paid) BOW (or give an educated opinion) PM me with the keyphrase and your URL to check :)

[OptWizard]

Make
Thanks that helps now on the MSN how to get ranked?