A Brief History of SEO (by Brett Tabke)

[Advisor]

Interesting analysis (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum5/1008.htm) on the history of SEO from certain SEO companys' perspective. Pretty interesting read. I never realized all that stuff was going on around me at the time. I just kept doing what I was doing, and kept getting high rankings!

I've been doing SEO since 1995 and so much of what he talks about had absolutely no effect on the way I did business. It really makes me laugh to read back on all the tricks that supposed SEO firms did throughout the years. All the while I just chugged along spouting, "content is king, content is king," and "what part of keyword rich copy don't you understand???" while they looked at me as if I had two heads!

It sure is interesting to watch as people declare suddenly, "hey you know...content really is king"!

Have you noticed how on certain other forums, that's what they're talking about now too (finally). Keyword rich content. If you went over to certain other forums just a year ago, the landscape was totally different. Sometimes I actually have to check and make sure I'm at the right place now when reading over there! But of course, this is a GOOD thing! I just wonder what took everyone so long to come around...

:cheers:

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Oh yes. Brett is probably spot on with it but I did not follow that stuff back then either. I was busy trying to learn at that time and pretty much was a lost soul. :)

[MazY]

Originally posted by webwhiz
Have you noticed how on certain other forums, that's what they're talking about now too (finally). Keyword rich content.

I distinctly remember our own pageoneresults being a very adamant advocate of "content is king" over at SEF, at least a year ago.

While perhaps not a pioneer, I believe he was one of the early ones to really start pushing the phrase.

See, I told you, pageone... I am omnipresent. I see and hear everything... :)

[bobking]

So, I'm not the only one that sees a chink in the king's armor? That whole post was basically 26 creative ways to say, "content is king".

I don't remember the history being exactly like that either. If Jill doesn't, and Doug doesn't and I don't, why is it we all assume it is?

The thing that amazes me the most is in effect what he has done is cut his own throat and announced the official death of SEO. Did you notice the last line? It's google or bust. He has just made it clear that he believes there is not much point in talking about anything other than google when it comes to SEO. If that's the case, why does anyone need to go to a SEO forum, if there is only one engine we can SEO?

It doesn't really matter who said content is king first. It seems to me that what does matter is that we who call ourselves SEO's wake up and realize that all the debates about what an SEO is is completely pointless. There is no SEO. There is PPC managament. There is tracking and stats analysis. There is copy writing. There is conversion consulting. There is design. There is even search engine placementbut there is not any SEO. To be brutally honest, there never was.

Search Engine Optimizer. WE DO NOT OPTIMIZE SEARCH ENGINES! So why do we try to confuse potential clients?

Was it possibly becuase so many people who would call them themselves that were simply trying to get paid for their lack of ability in being able to design and build quality sites?

I know I'm stepping on toes here, but before you get mad at me, let me point out a couple of things.

#1. I am not saying it's you and not me. I'm the first to admit that I'm not guiltless.

#2. I'm not saying anything to anyone specifically. There is not a single SEO out there that has all the answers. We all make mistakes and we all get those top spots.

#3. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help. I have a vested interest in seeing this industry survive and prosper. It's just that I honestly don't see that hapenning until at least a few of us wake up and smell the coffee.

Today's SEO has more to do with ROI than link popularity. It has more to do with customer aquistion and retention than hidden text. It has more to do with conversion than cloaking. It has more to do with strategic planning than submitting. If any of those things had been applied to the SEO industry, we wouldn't know as it SEO in the first place. We would all know it as something that didn't mislead and confuse the potential client in the first place.

SEO is dead. Maybe it never really existed in the first place. Maybe that was the point of that thread? Or maybe he is just getting tired of answering the same old questions over and over day after day.

No need to freak out. This is not the end of of anything except maybe a few more of the things that should have never been there in the first place. Was there ever a need to spam the engines? Was there ever really any need to cloak anything. Did we reallly need to spend so much time talking about where to put the commas in our meta tags?

There are plenty of things going on right now that make the net every bit as promising as it ever was. Things that don't require hiding anything or stuffing any tags. Things that may not sound so over-important and self-serving but that actually provide a way for someone to start and run a business online and become successful. Things that don't require 80% of your time to just get hits.

Maybe we need to re-think our forum topics. Maybe we need to re-think what we do for clients. Maybe we need to re-think our objectives. Maybe it is just time to set some objectives. Maybe it's time to stop chasing hits and start chasing sales. Maybe it's time to stop trying to kill our competitors and learn how to build something better. Something more long term.

There are going to always be search engines and there will always be a market for people who know how to make the most of using them. BUT, there is not a market for SEO. WE DO NOT OPTIMIZE SEARCH ENGINES.

[MazY]

Originally posted by bobking
Maybe we need to re-think our forum topics. Maybe we need to re-think what we do for clients.

An interesting, if not somewhat perplexing post. You are assuming that every SEO in the business (and consumer) reads, swallows and adheres to what Brett writes.

I can only speak for myself but I make a very concerted effort to not read what the supposed "industry experts" write. (Barring Nick Usborne the copywriter.) They don't run my business, they don't know my clients, they don't know what makes my business work and so forth. Their "insight" and gifted-views are applicable only to their own business and practises as that is how their experience is derived.

As for "maybe we need to rethink what we do for our clients" - the smart business does that everyday. Those that don't are the ones that fall by the wayside. No big deal. I am not my business, the search engines are not my business, the designs are not my business - the clients and their ever-changing needs are my business.

The very moment that I cease to think of the client, in favour of listening to yet another industry expert tell me how to successfully run my business, is the moment that I lose sight of the core aspect of my business. Not something that is going to happen any time soon!

P.S. No I haven't read the article that started this thread. I really don't care a single jot what others think about the SEO business. While they are busy nurturing their credibility and reputations, I am busy looking at the rapidly changing needs of customers!

[Advisor]

Wow...a lot of stuff in your post there, Bob! Much of it I agree with, but not everything. I don't remember the history being exactly like that either. If Jill doesn't, and Doug doesn't and I don't, why is it we all assume it is? I don't get me wrong, I do believe that Brett's history is exactly how it was for the majority of SEOs during the time period he talked about. I remember getting depressed one night two years ago when I was reading some posts over there, and I had absolutely no clue what they were talking about. I kept wondering how I could be so out of the loop, and how I didn't know all that stuff. But then I stepped back and let reality hit me...I thought, "Wait! Whatever it is I'm doing is obviously working, so why am I worrying about that stuff?" From that moment on I stopped worrying about it. I knew that I knew what worked, and just went with it. Probably another reason why I never posted over there throughout the years! Did you notice the last line? It's google or bust. He has just made it clear that he believes there is not much point in talking about anything other than google when it comes to SEO. If that's the case, why does anyone need to go to a SEO forum, if there is only one engine we can SEO? Well, at this point in time, I would have to agree with that. Optimizing for Google right now seems to be the main thing to worry about. My feeling is that if you can get high rankings in Google, you should theoretically be able to get good rankings everywhere since Google usually provides very relevant results. Right now we're just waiting for the other engines to start showing the results that they should be showing!

Bob, I do agree that ROI is certainly becoming one of the most important things. Obviously if optimizing a site doesn't produce a good return on investment, there's not reason why a company would choose to have it done. However, I don't think that every SEO person has to be a conversion rate specialist. I do think that any SEO campaign should be done with a conversion rate campaign, but they don't have to be the same people performing those tasks (and probably won't be). SEOs could definitely do better for themselves by aligning themselves with experts in the conversion rate arena, however. No need to freak out. This is not the end of of anything except maybe a few more of the things that should have never been there in the first place. Was there ever a need to spam the engines? Was there ever really any need to cloak anything. Did we reallly need to spend so much time talking about where to put the commas in our meta tags? Totally agree with that! But there were/are plenty of SEOs out there who work that way. As I mentioned in my previous post, they do seem to be coming around. (Except for those icky companies that send spam!)There is not a single SEO out there that has all the answers. We all make mistakes and we all get those top spots. Yep, there's definitely still more than one way to skin the SEO cat!

Much food for thought, Bob. I'm glad you posted it!

Jill

[bobking]

You are assuming that every SEO in the business (and consumer) reads, swallows and adheres to what Brett writes.
**********************************
No, I'm assuming that enough people who are in the so-called SEO industry read that forum, especially when the owner of the forum posts, that it has an impact on the industry as a whole.
***********************

P.S. . I really don't care a single jot what others think about the SEO business. While they are busy nurturing their credibility and reputations, I am busy looking at the rapidly changing needs of customers!
***********************

I admire your tenacity and devotion to your business. I like hearing a young man talk about his business that way. However, before you start casting aspersions on the credibility of others, you may want to consider slowing down a bit and thinking about how what you post affects your own credibility

You have 1438 posts to this forum alone since July of last year. That's roughly 7.37 posts per day, every day for the last 6 and half months. You're obviously busy doing more than just looking at customer's rapidly changing needs.

It occurs to me, (and maybe consumers reading this), that anyone who posts that much DOES indeed give a single jot about what others say assuming of course you read the posts before you post and you're not just thinking that all those experts you refer to aren't worth reading as much as you are.

Also, it would seem a little ironic that while you don't care what anyone else says about this business and how it might affect your business, you still chose to title one of the sites in your sig tag with Search Engine Optimasation. Isn't that what the acronym SEO stands for? Was that a coincedence and as luck would have it an entire industry sprung up using your title or did you read that somewhere and didn't give a single jot about it?

I apologize Mazy for being harsh. I have always truly enjoyed your posts. I'm just hoping to make a point.

One of the problem with the whole SEO concept is it has fostered an environment of all of us going a dozen different directions trying to define what spam is. This has left a situation of all of us calling the others of us spammers.

If this industry is ever going to prosper and become accepted as a profession, one of the first things we have to do is stop saying things like
If they guarantee anything, they are spammers
if they cloak they are spammers
don't listen to anybody that uses doorway pages
if they do this they are spamming
I don't do that so I'm an ethical SEO

All that stuff has got to stop because all we are doing is cutting our own throats. We are making ourselves look bad by saying I'm an SEO but watch out, there are a lot of unethical SEOs out there. Am I the only one that sees that?

Spam is not the problem. At least, that is not our problem. That is the search engines problem. Our problem should be just what you said Mazy, the changing needs of the customer.

All I am trying to say is:

what needs to happen before we can stop having these huge threads all over the place where we keep talking about is this spam? Will I get banned for this? And especially all the "I don't do this technique so I'm ethical and they're not" stuff.

Something is wrong with this industry and has been for a long time. Now, what needs to happen before we can salvage the internet marketing industry? In my opinion, one of the things that needs to happen is for us all to realize,

there are no engines left to optimize for except Google that generate traffic that is acceptable for the amount of time it takes to get that traffic

If you want to be on top of an engine you don't need an SEO, you just need to pay the engine

the face of search engine marketing has changed and we need to change with it and part of that change needs to include us stopping trying to define spam

we need to accept that internet marketing may entail something other than link popularity

etc.

Now you can chastise me all you want. Call me names. Call me spammer, but that doesn't change the situation we're faced with. You're just shooting the messenger. I'm just trying to get as many of the people I have respect for to see these changes and start talking about how to stay in business.

[Advisor]

Bob, I have a question for you. Did you think that my original post in this thread was calling people spammers? Cuz if you did, that was not my intent at all. I'm only asking because your subsequent posts are talking about how we shouldn't be calling people spammers and stuff, yet, I don't really see how that fits with this thread. Yeah, there are lots of places on this board where we (very heavily) have discussed what is and what isn't spam. But I am not clear on how it fit with this thread. (Unless you were reading that into my original post.) If so, let me know and I will clarify it.

Jill

[bobking]

Bob, I do agree that ROI is certainly becoming one of the most important things. Obviously if optimizing a site doesn't produce a good return on investment, there's not reason why a company would choose to have it done. However, I don't think that every SEO person has to be a conversion rate specialist.
****************************

Good point Jill and of course, you're right. My question is, where would an SEO go to find out about a ROI conversion specialist?

[Advisor]

The only company I know that specializes in conversion rates (and I'm sure there are others) is Future Now. I believe it's http://www.futurenowinc.com

Others do it to a certain extent within the context of their copywriting, of course.

Jill

[bobking]

Soory I have to post again but I can't edit my posts. Maybe I've been banned or something :(

Anyway, no Jill, I certainly did not read into your post that you were calling anyone spammers. It is just a disturbing trend I'm noticing throughout most of the forums I visit but had nothing to do with this thread or your post specifically.

I'm seeing way too many posts where people are asking for references on a specific company and instead of just getting a reply, these huge threads start up about what technique is ethical and which isn't when the whole thing is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.

I only mentioned it because it is what I see as another aspect of SEO that never belonged there in the first place and I may have gotten a little carried away. Excuse me if I brought us off topic. It was not my intention.

I'll shut up now.

[Advisor]

Bob, you don't have to shut up! I only asked because I was afraid that if you were taking my post that way then others were also. I know sometimes we post things with one meaning in mind, but it reads totally different to others. That's the only reason why I asked you. I think this is a good discussion, and I'm glad you joined in on it.

On another note, I saw you'd be speaking at the IM conference in Vancouver! That should be an interesting conference. Our own "Hope" is also speaking there. Unfortunately, I think it's too close to the other conferences that I'll be at, or else I would definitely think about attending.

Jill

[MazY]

Originally posted by bobking
I apologize Mazy for being harsh. I have always truly enjoyed your posts. I'm just hoping to make a point.

No need. I admire integrity over fluffy posting any day.

Now, trying to avoid yet another of those already overdone "Maz is arrogant" type posts, I will try to address your response, in a manner which it deserves. (Incidentally, accusing me of arrogance would offend if I felt it untrue.)

The number of posts, to you at least, seems to be directly proportional to the interest I have in what others say? You'll excuse me if I tell you that I simply cannot fathom your logic behind that thinking.

Secondly, did you read that my life consists exclusively of looking at customers needs? No, of course you didn't. You exploited one small aspect of the post and have attempted to mould it for your own benefit. For the record, I also eat for approximately 1.25 hours a day. How silly do you want to get?

I really don't mind anyone, regardless of how aggressively, responding to or picking up on anything that I write. But, I do expect them to at least have the courtesy to try and respond to what I write, not what they think I have written or what they would like to intimate that I have written. If you cannot do that then I am wasting your time as much as you are mine.

On to the SEO title - does it really matter that much to you, or am I missing your entire point? It doesn't matter what I call it, you call it or anyone else calls it for that matter. From a search engine and business building perspective, it is important what the customer generally knows it as. You are banging a drum that doesn't need beating.

I can't figure out what the original point of your post was and I will accept that is perhaps a failing on my part but whatever it was it seems to have largely diluted in to some type of magical call to arms to try and recognise the SEO industry is all wrong. It isn't wrong, it isn't broken, it's just evolving.

If, as you express, you want people to follow your latest view then perhaps the best method may not be to try and force it down their throats? That action generally makes people vomit.

[Advisor]

If, as you express, you want people to follow your latest view then perhaps the best method may not be to try and force it down their throats? That action generally makes people vomit.
Nah...ya just gotta work on the gag reflex is all! ;)

J

[MazY]

Originally posted by webwhiz
Nah...ya just gotta work on the gag reflex is all! ;)

J

lol. That just sounds dirty to me!

[Advisor]

Originally posted by MazY


lol. That just sounds dirty to me! All depends where your mind's at, I guess. :rolleyes:

J

[MazY]

Originally posted by webwhiz
All depends where your mind's at, I guess. :rolleyes:

J

Ah well, there's the problem then. I lost my mind quite some time ago.

[ihelpyou]

hmm Bob. No reason why you should not be able to edit your posts. Did you hit the 'edit' button? :)

[ihelpyou]

Okay. SEO's come in many different styles, backgrounds, morals, ethics, ways and means, flavors. We all do our own thing and we all do it very different than the next guy.

It is up to the consumer/client/visitor/surfer/site owner/customer to choose which type is best for him/her. No type is generally 'not right', and all types have their own place.

I do disagree with the notion that a potential client should not know what type any seo is, as I think we should educate the client as to every type. And yes, even the SEO's who do the 'tricks'. I see no reason to hide any of this to a client. If someone thrives on 'tricks' to get top ranks, a client should be educated to know that these can harm the site in the search engines. I educate daily, on the phone, in here, and through email.

To say that SEO as we know it does not exist and we all should go toward ROI, etc, is simply not feasible. In order for some of us to do that, it would be mandatory for us/me to become a professional site designer as well as a SEO. Not something I am going to do tomorrow. Do I wish I could do design? Heck yes I do, but I can't and won't. That is a full-time job for another as well as my SEO work is full-time for me.

It is very true that my 'optimization' of sites is geared towards bettering the site to 'sell' better on the net. Very true, but that cannot be my only focus as I have no way of judging this, nor do I have any control over this. No access to the site support system and no access to the 'other' marketing aspects of the site.

My niche in this industry is as a SEO or WSO (web site optimization), not as the total marketing of my client and not as his web designer.

Some of us, including Bob and MazY, does web design, etc and even hosts Urls on their server, etc. I don't do this and cannot see it happening in the future either. I wish I could design, but I can't.

Does this mean I cannot do my job and do it pretty good? Nope. It just means my niche is smaller than others and I specialize in one aspect of 'marketing'. Others are left to fill in the other things.

[bobking]

Ok, you're right. You caught me. I was trying to get rich by getting you guys to admit that you don't actually optimize search engines, that's just a silly name that no one really knows where it came from and really only confuses potential clients.

You caught me in my scheme to make a bunch of money by getting everyone to realize that even if you did actually optimize search engines, very soon there isn't going to be any search engines left that we could even confuse customers into thinking we did optimize.

You exposed my get rich quick scheme of trying to get anyone that makes a living off of what is known as SEO to start looking at ways to stay in business if it was something else that clients were looking for.

Seriously, it is only natural to not want to change, but it's changing whether we like it or not. Even you said it's evolving. Well, all I'm saying is why can't we start looking at what it's evolving into and stay in business by being ahead of the game instead of clinging to something that never should have been there in the first place while we watch our customers start going to other forums where they DO discuss things like ROI and watch our client base start to slip because they are just as uniformed but now they are looking for something other than SEO and now there are no engines that we can get our new site into the top of fast enough to capitalize on it without paying per click like everyone else is going to be doing?

We don't have to sit and call each other names until it's too late. That is a choice we are all going to have to make.

Finally Mazy, in my opinion, some of your posts could be arrogant if you toned them down a bit. If you would quit just being mean for the sake of being mean everytime you read soemthing you didn't like, we might even be able to learn something from each other.

By the way, not that anyone gives two hoots about what or where I post, but you are one of the reasons I don't post here often. I can't agree with you everytime and I dread what you are going to post in response. Well, it's hard enough to just post in the first place, let alone when you are having to prepare for a fight everytime.

[Kal]

Originally posted by MazY
I am not my business, the search engines are not my business, the designs are not my business - the clients and their ever-changing needs are my business.
A big AMEN to that Maz :thumb: It wasn't until I stopped dictating to my clients and started listening that my business took off. I changed my prices to be more in line with what they wanted to pay, I introduced new products they were asking for (such as PPC) and voila, I suddenly have a viable business. Wish I'd had the common sense to do it sooner. :cheers:

Hey Jill - I've been doing SEO since 1996 and I don't remember many of those "milestones" Brett mentions either. At least not quite in the same way. A couple of standouts I remember that aren't even in there : the launch of the revolutionary software Web Position Agent (now WPG) and when Looksmart introduced the first SE submission fee. Remember how :eek: ed we all were?

[ihelpyou]

hey Bob, you and I just disagree on the way SEO is evolving. I do believe there will always be a place for the small niche that I cater to. It is a specialty niche in the 'internet marketing' scheme of things.

Web site optimization will always be needed. New search engines will evolve, and I'm not talking about PPC engines. Why they are even called 'search engines' I'll never know. They should be called 'PPC Advertising Agencies' which is exactly what they are. They just happen to advertise on 'other' real search engines. No big secret here.

There are many other search engines out there than Google. We are patiently waiting until they get ontrack. Won't be long. In the meantime, besides Google there is AltaVista which is trying to make a comeback and the Inktomi database. AOL, Looksmart, and MSN all need good optimization skills to get ranks. My profession is not dead and won't be in the near future.

Those who not only do optimization, but web design, ROI tracking, etc, price their individual skills accordingly. It is up to the particular service/SEO/web design firm as to how they set their prices and how they sell their clients. You have to sell yourself just like with anything.

If one price is higher than another, then tell the client 'why'. If you do web design and the 'other' service does not, then tell the client this information. All services do things differently. It is simply up to the particular owner of the service as to how he/she approaches and handles a client's questions and up to the owner/sales team as to whether they land that particular job.

[MakeMeTop]

Interesting thread :)

I tend to agree with Bob on the analysis of Brett's history. Paradoxically, I feel that Google is the last SE to worry about. If you can get rankings on all the others plus directories - odds are you'll rank high on Google without thinking about it at all! Sort of comes as a bonus ;)

I also agree that SEO is the wrong term for what we do - we don't optimize engines - but we do optimize web sites for engines. Danny S. is trying to get the profession renamed as 'search engine marketing' which is more accurate - but if people type in to search engines SEO phrases - I'll try and come up for SEO phrases. When they change to SEM phrases - I'll try and come up for them too :)

If it was decided that we are left handed sprigget wanglers I'll make sure I appear for that.

I don't care what I am called - as long as people think that when they see my site - I'm the answer to their prayers :D

[MazY]

Originally posted by bobking
Finally Mazy, in my opinion, some of your posts could be arrogant if you toned them down a bit. If you would quit just being mean for the sake of being mean everytime you read soemthing you didn't like, we might even be able to learn something from each other.

Edited to avoid having to answer the same things over and over and over....

[ihelpyou]

Hey Bobby and MazY, comeon, chill a little bit. It's only a forum with everyone having their own opinions. Personal stuff should be left out of it. I should send you both to a corner for awhile. :)

[Alan Perkins]

You may also like to join in this
Search Engine Marketing Industry Issues (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/t1973/s.html) thread.

Includes free poll!

[Advisor]

some of your posts could be arrogant if you toned them down a bit. You've got to admit, that was kinda funny! (And this of course is not meant to offend Maz who is the first to admit his arrogance!) :green:
When they change to SEM phrases - I'll try and come up for them too I've already got the jump on you there, Barry! (At least in Google.)

Jill

[MazY]

What can I say? My humour is a bit more off-the-wall. The Eddie Izzard type, if you have Eddie Izzard in the states?

Even Doug managed to make me laugh this morning!

[newriver]

In reply to bob's original post, I didn't read the rest of the thread.

I strongly believe that our role has become limited, and that Google has way to much power over a successful search engine placement campaign. An (SEO) has a responsibility to bring traffic to a site, it used to be this was done through search engine's across the internet, now it is done anyway possible.

PPC campaigns, Google, the rest of the directories and SE's, and domain name management. Bob I think you and I speak the same language from what I gathered in your post.

SEO is now just a term, who cares what it stands for. When I think of an SEO now I think of the person responsible for bringing in traffic to the site. How they do it is up to them.

[Advisor]

Never heard of Eddie Izzard. Anyone else?

J

[markymark]

Jill, you are missing out - go and buy some of his live videos. Eddie Izzard is pretty hilarious.

Wish I'd read this thread before my own posting at the other thread (the one with the poll !) as we're covering similar ground. I agree with Bob pretty much (though I did think all this had occured to me and me only, oh well).

If you don't know about converting traffic, ROI and those issues, then learn. If you don't know about affiliate marketing or email marketing, then read some forums, join some discussion groups. After all, that is how most of us learnt about SEO - there are no excuses. If you don't want to learn or expand your range of skills, then that is fine too, but I personally think it is a mistake.

We are far from a dying industry, but it really is time that we matured . Take a look at the other thread - y'know , the one with the poll, for my main views. I gotta go to bed now.

[ihelpyou]

hey Marky, nothing wrong with you tracking ROI or making sales for a client. Just price your service accordingly and explain to your client exactly what they are getting.

Since I am not on my client's designing team or sales team or conversion team or support team, and since I do not price for any of that, I choose not to get into it. But, I do 'optimize' the site for the highest possible conversion rates that I can. This is an automatic thing that actually is what web site optimization is.

[emanuel_hoch]

Hi folks, I'm back.

1. True, you do not optimize search engines.

2. But you do not optimize Web sites for search engines either. This would be an accurate description if SEs had criteria for listing sites in terms of minimal qualifications, and your sole aim was to get your site listed.

3. You optimize Web sites for the Web environment in which they are going to operate, that is, AGAINST other Web sites, all trying to qualify for the top positions that have various degrees of positive ROI.

The difference can be compared to training someone to be an athlete, versus training an athlete to qualify for participation in the Olympic games, versus training that athlete to get a medal at the next Olympic games.

[ihelpyou]

hey emanuel, good to read you! :hi:

[Advisor]

You optimize Web sites for the Web environment in which they are going to operate, that is, AGAINST other Web sites, all trying to qualify for the top positions that have various degrees of positive ROI. I don't. I optimize sites to rank high in the search engines in their own right. I could care less what the other web sites in the same field are doing. I know if I do certain things to my web sites, which to me means simply making them the best that they can be, then they will rank high for their keyword phrases.

Jill