Frames and dial up

[grungee]

I use frames on my site, so that the header and contact details only have to load once I then use a frame to change the information that the user wants to see.

This I find loads fairly fast especially on dial up, and probably 40% of our customers are dial up so I have to keep them in mind, we have a large country user base.

Now I have heard frames are bad etc.. what I am wondering is if there is another way to do it better? and would the other way load as fast as it does now. Or is it best to leave well enough alone.

I am asking about this for the user first and then with seo in mind secondly, if its best for the user the way I do it then I think that should be the way to keep doing it, if I can change it an make it a better user experience and also help with seo then I would consider changing it.

Cheers for any thoughts

[Blue]

I recommend that you look into using PHP includes.

[grungee]

Originally posted by Blue
I recommend that you look into using PHP includes.

So change the whole site to php? What would be the benefits Blue?

[Connie]

If it is the site in your profile the site is slow even with the frames on a dial up.

[grungee]

Originally posted by Connie
If it is the site in your profile the site is slow even with the frames on a dial up.

What do you call slow Connie? I tried on multiple 56k modems with most of them having a 40+ connection and while it was sluggish when you go from page to page it was fairly quick (except when you want the 100 or so colour files). That is why I went for it that way only the inner frame changes from page to page.

[Blue]

Originally posted by grungee
So change the whole site to php? What would be the benefits Blue? First, it should be fairly easy to port over your whole site to PHP. As with your framed architecture, you'll be able to have the now framed sections such as the header and footer be called from a single file, allowing for fast page loads.

Maintenance is easy as well as you only need to update/edit the single include file for the change to affect the whole site.

Another advantage, one that you will appreciate, is that search engines, or others linking to your site can never break your page(s) as they can with framed sites not done right.

Benefits of PHP (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=%22benefits+of+PHP%22).

[Connie]

What do you call slow Connie?
What do I call slow. No text in the first 20 to 30 seconds. I have 56 K modem but normally am connected at 24 K or under.

The modem does not dictate you speed. Your phone lines and ISP dictates that.

On line checkers are good but not as good as someone who is actually looking at the site from their connection.

If you had done the site right the text would load prior to the images. That gives the visitor something to read. On your site I have to wait 20 to 30 seconds while your lovely graphics load before seeing any text.

Most visitors will leave within 20 seconds.

I know nothing about php but I'm sure Blue is suggesting something that is a lot better than what you have now.

[grungee]

Originally posted by Blue
First, it should be fairly easy to port over your whole site to PHP. As with your framed architecture, you'll be able to have the now framed sections such as the header and footer be called from a single file, allowing for fast page loads.

Maintenance is easy as well as you only need to update/edit the single include file for the change to affect the whole site.

Another advantage, one that you will appreciate, is that search engines, or others linking to your site can never break your page(s) as they can with framed sites not done right.

Benefits of PHP (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=%22benefits+of+PHP%22).

Thanks Blue that was what I had planned for all along now that you have explained it I will definately look into, the wholesite was just bludged together by me trying to make it as good as possible without knowing any coding what you suggest sound like the right direction I should go

[grungee]

Originally posted by Connie
What do I call slow. No text in the first 20 to 30 seconds. I have 56 K modem but normally am connected at 24 K or under.

The modem does not dictate you speed. Your phone lines and ISP dictates that.

On line checkers are good but not as good as someone who is actually looking at the site from their connection.

If you had done the site right the text would load prior to the images. That gives the visitor something to read. On your site I have to wait 20 to 30 seconds while your lovely graphics load before seeing any text.

Most visitors will leave within 20 seconds.

I know nothing about php but I'm sure Blue is suggesting something that is a lot better than what you have now.

Thanks Connie, I did try the site on 56k modems here in australia and while the 1st load was slow I found that people could then find the information fairly quickly after that, but yes your right people don't want to hang around to long so I will now look at what Blue suggested and see how that goes.
Appreciate the comments thanks again

[g1smd]

How did the validating of the HTML code on your kitchens(?) site go?

Did we finish that off?

[Connie]

Thanks Connie, I did try the site on 56k modems here in australia and while the 1st load was slow
Once you have the page or pages in your cache they will load quicker.

Some online checkers will show you the speed not only based on 56K but 24K 12K etc. 56K would be a perfect connection. Most people on dial up will be connected much lower than that.

Your headed in the right direction.

[grungee]

Originally posted by g1smd
How did the validating of the HTML code on your kitchens(?) site go?

Did we finish that off?

I am working on a total rewrite of all the pages (sometimes kitchen work gets in the way) and the more I have been reading about frames the more I was thinking maybe I need to find a better way, becasue according to my logs some people are coming in through the frames and losing the menu system, also I notice the javascript menu system sometimes plays up with firefox and about 16% of my users run firefox. I will eneavour to make sure the code is optimized and use css to full extent, I always take note when people smarter than me give me great hints and tips, and also I noticed a huge rise in my google ranks when I did the w3c compliant and part did the code optimizing so it just makes great sense to do the site properly in 1 hit.

Thanks G1

[grungee]

Originally posted by Connie
Once you have the page or pages in your cache they will load quicker.

Some online checkers will show you the speed not only based on 56K but 24K 12K etc. 56K would be a perfect connection. Most people on dial up will be connected much lower than that.

Your headed in the right direction.

Thats what I love about this site, you get great recommendations and so far none of the information I have gained has made me take a dive in the rankings only helped me rise through the ranks. I have decided to do the site properly, from a user perspective from what I have read php with well done css seems to be the best option for what I want to make the site do. Thanks again for the tips.