A couple of ?s

[greenpastureslc]

I just got off the phone with a design company that also does hosting. I'm tired of working with templates that don't really give me what I want, so I thought I'd seek out a pro.

These were the prices they quoted me. Let me know what you think.

$575 for 7 pages, custom design.
$40/ month for hosting which takes care of everything. Unlimited tech support, site updates, emails, etc..

The company is Heritage Web Solutions. Anybody dealt with this company before? Good or bad dealings?

[Connie]

I've never heard of them. How did you find them, or how did they find you?

One thing you need to keep in mind is that many so called web design firms know how to create pretty pages, but don't know the first thing about SEO.

Design is an integral part of SEO.

Design=SEO
SEO=Design

[greenpastureslc]

Originally posted by Connie
I've never heard of them. How did you find them, or how did they find you?




I found them. Google search on "web design". They were at the top of the Sponsered Search. They mentioned SE Marketing as part of the quote. Just trying to get some opinions. Its the first company I've talked to.

[Quadrille]

Unless you get references to justify it, I'd keep hosting and design separate. they require very different skills and facilities, and it would be pure coincidence to find excellence in both fields with one company - though I'm sure there are such companies.

It also allows you to make budget decisions on one without being forced to do it all over again with the other.

Also, you pretty much can buy hosting on price, and changing is quick and easy - the opposite is true with design.

Plus what Connie said!

[Blue]

I must respectfully disagree with Q.

There are many good reasons to go with a design company that does hosting, first and foremost of which is support: a familiarity with the hosting platform/OS/BW requirements/etc. is a definite benefit. It is much harder (and takes longer) to troubleshoot hosting related issues when the two are separated. A designer that hosts your site is at a distinct advantage.

I would only shy away from a company that does both in the case where I thought either one or the other looked like an afterthought, or where one obviously overshadowed the other. Many larger companies come to mind.

[Connie]

a familiarity with the hosting platform/OS/BW requirements/etc. is a definate benefit.
Possibly if a site was using CMS or something like that.

Like Q I am leary of putting all my eggs in one basket.

[greenpastureslc]

Other than the above mentioned what about price? Is that a fair price? If i were to look at seperate design and hosting companys would this be the price I would shoot for? The hosting company I'm with now (don't laugh, the girl I talked to from heritage already did) I'm only paying $7/ month for, but I'm realizing that you get what you pay for. Just by checking the difference on their websites, I'm not even getting a fraction of the support with my current host that I could elsewhere.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Blue
I must respectfully disagree with Q.That's ok :) - but I think hosting these days is not the rocket science it was - and if you have a decent host, any half-decent design team shouldn't have a problem.

But as I said, getting excellence in both fields from one company would fine - and could be a bonus.

[Connie]

I pay $7.95 per month (payed 12 months at at time) or it is 9.95 per month on a monthly basis. Have sites on 3 different servers. The support is excellent and the benefits are great. Been with them over 4 years.

One thing anyone has to realize is that on a shared server things are not going to be perfect.

There are several things that can affect the level of support.

Does the host have their own data center or are they co-located?
Are you purchasing direct from the host or through a reseller, which can be hard to determine?

In regard to the price for the design I don't know if it's good or bad.

I would ask them for references, and a list of sites they designed to look at.

Since design is so critical to SEO I think your money would be better spent hiring one of the SEOs in here for the project. I'm not an SEO so I'm not looking for a job.

As for getting away from templates I don't think you will ever do that. I use one ever time I create a new page. I just add the new content. Makes life a lot simpler.

Keep in mind that if they do the design and host your site, you could be locked into a situation that you can't easily get out of if the relationship turns sour.

[greenpastureslc]

I found their portfolio with some of the sites they've done, they look good but not sure how search engine friendly they would be.

Could some one take a look and tell me what you think?

http://www.heritagewebdesign.com/portfolio.html

If you remove the url I apologize in advance, but its the only way I know to direct you to what I'm seeing.

[greenpastureslc]

Like I said in an earlier post when I talked to these people earlier, they did say they take care of SE marketing, but they were not guaranteing top ranking. From what I've read on here so far if they had, I would have run the other way.

[JohnC]

Maybe its just me, but when I saw this ...
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0"> in the first couple of lines of code I stopped looking. I cant think of any reason a professional design shop would still be using that software.

That might be an old site in their portfolio, but they would have lost my sale none the less.

[Connie]

I just looked at a couple of sites in their portfolio. I would not hire them. They make pretty pages using FP but that is about it. Looking at the source code they are pretty sloppy and inconsistent. A lot of pages do not have a meta description which I think is important. Not necessarily for ranking but sometimes the SEs will use that for the snippet they show on the search results.

[Connie]

That might be an old site in their portfolio
I don't think so. One of the sites listed is still under construction. I would not put that in a portfolio.

[greenpastureslc]

Didn't i see a post around here some where from a guy that already does design and hosting, but is coming here to learn how to integrate SEO with his designs?

[Blue]

Originally posted by greenpastureslc
Didn't i see a post around here some where from a guy that already does design and hosting, but is coming here to learn how to integrate SEO with his designs? Could've been me ;) ... but after four + years here I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.

I still say that a designer, whom is SEO enlightened, and hosts sites (and therefore knows all the ins and outs of their hosting platform) is a much better way to go than separating one from the other. It's just common sense.

Take mod-rewrite for instance. A hosting designer can set that up for any design-hosting clients without blinking an eye. A lot of designers that don't host would have to take time (time = money) to research and implement this. The list goes on...

Any good hosting designer's designs should be portable to any hosting company (that uses the same platform).

[kalidust]

Originally posted by Blue
I must respectfully disagree with Q.

There are many good reasons to go with a design company that does hosting, first and foremost of which is support: a familiarity with the hosting platform/OS/BW requirements/etc. is a definite benefit. It is much harder (and takes longer) to troubleshoot hosting related issues when the two are separated. A designer that hosts your site is at a distinct advantage.

I would only shy away from a company that does both in the case where I thought either one or the other looked like an afterthought, or where one obviously overshadowed the other. Many larger companies come to mind.

I agree with Blue.

[WebSavvy]

If you're looking for a good designer that understands search engines, I'd recommend using Peggy Brown of Katsuey Design Works (http://www.katsueydesignworks.com/).

I've been a fan of her design work for years because she's simply brilliant. I'm not sure what her prices would be, but wouldn't hurt to ask. She has a portfolio online, as well.

As far as hosting goes, there are some good hosts out there that are reliable and inexpensive. Two that I can recommend personally, would be myacen.com and shogini.com.

Shogini has been online for more than 7 years. I hosted with them for a few years when I first came onto the Internet and began developing my first site.

Then, after the size of my site outgrew it's space on shogini, I moved to myacen.com. They've been around for about 5 years now. The man that owns it, Robert, is located in AU and is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I hosted there for a few years too, before moving into owning my own servers.

Just a few places you can use as a starting point. Do some research, ask for references from former clients (design work) and check the webhost forums to find cheers/jeers on whatever host you might be considering.

Our mod here, nuthin, is also a mod at the webhost forums.

Good luck. :)

[loki]

Originally posted by savvy1
Two that I can recommend personally, would be myacen.com and shogini.com.

my things change fast! myacen are currently not accepting customers and shogini look like they've becomme fully fledged circuit board makers.

anyone else?

[WebSavvy]

Oops. I had a typo in schogini's name. Here it is, loki:
Schogini Systems (http://www.schogini.com/) and they are now and always have been a hosting company.

Sri, Jimmy, and Ammen run it. They're some of the nicest people you'll ever know.

I didn't know myacen.com was full up. Robert is a great guy too.

During the years I hosted with Schogini (3-4 years) and the years I hosted with MyAcen (2+ years), I never had any issues that weren't resolved within 24-48 hrs.

Schogini has outstanding customer service and usually had tickets resolved within 4 hrs max and that was for the entire time I hosted there.

After the directory became bigger, I moved it from Schogini to MyAcen. Then outgrew the space there and needed to go dedicated so that's when we moved to our own servers -- about 3 years ago.

[loki]

thanks deb.

i have a problem with my hosting company in that they don't seem to want to resolve anyting. i have these tediously long threads going that end up with me ready to flip out.

:(

this has happened on many occasions over the years with 3 different hosting companies. (companies that have good reps and are not bottom end of the market.)

this forces me to think that maybe i am the problem, not them.

i guess my problem is i cannot accurately describe the issue in terms that the hosting techs are familiar with.

we (they and i) end up frustrated and things end in tears.

i need a hosting co. that's prepared to use a bit of savvy (sorry) and patience to get to the bottom of things and understand the issue. and then fix it or tell me what to do to fix it.

but does such a beast exist?

[ihelpyou]

The big problem with these "big" hosting firms is that they no almost nothing about search engines and websites. Their servers are not up to snuff with all the details involved.

You are better off with a firm who knows about all of that stuff. Guess what? ihelpyou, Inc. "does" know all about it. :D

[WebSavvy]

Schogini doesn't have support forums -- at least, not during the time I hosted there, that is. But they do have email support.

Myacen has support forums and helpdesk. Robert responds in his forums to questions but if it's anything you actually need help with, he requests that you do that through helpdesk.

The helpdesk support is outsourced now (it went that way prior to my leaving there). The people it's outsourced to, do not speak English very well.

Carl (our editor) used to be the helpdesk support and server tech for myacen. He's only a kid, but he's one of the brightest kids I've known.

Not sure what kinds of problems you're having with your hosts?

I sent you a PM, anyway. :)

[loki]

too true.

i should add that i prefer UK based servers as most of these sites' target clients are uk based (and they're dotcoms), and while i don't resell per se, i do set up clients's sites and (up until today!) handle any hosting issues, so a reseller plan fits reasonably well for me.

(PM'd you back deb.)

[WebSavvy]

Yep, based on your space & bw needs, I suggested someone to you. :)

[SAFECARE]

Unless you want some real nightmares stay away from these people. For example check-out their Terms of Service (TOS) at

http://www.heritagewebdesign.com/tos.html

Check item #1, as soon as you give these birds your credit card authorization the TOS is in effect. (They won't give you an opportunity to accept or reject these terms before you give them your card number) Check out item #14. They will build a website for themselves using your information that they control and will turn it over to you only after they have extracted 12 months of hosting at $49 a month (5 time the industry standard rate)

You would end up with two sites one you own and one they own.
Two sites with the same content can get you kicked off the major search engines (Google, Yahoo, etc). I'm rite in the middle of this.

All the negitives would take many more words than I'm alowed here. STAY AWAY FROM THESE GUYS!!!

[ihelpyou]

Welcome Safecare! :hi:

Thanks for sharing. Yet more proof from real people with a bad experience.

[countonusprdotcom]

If you read the terms of service on their website you will see exactly why it is a good thing to stay away from them. I am still fighting to help my client get out from under them.

[Blue]

#1 in their TOS is standard, and is used by many hosts/designers, but that #14 is completely self-serving IMO.