Need SEO certification Beta Testers.

[mikech]

Hi all,
We are offering free membership to [Removed URL] (take out spaces). You must be a qualified SEO firm/website and be willing to provide extensive feedback. In addition, we are in need of qualified committee members. Please email me if you are interested.

[Removed E-mail]

Thanks...

[Connie]

Hi Mike and welcome.

I removed the URL per Forum Guidelines (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18677). You can add the site to your profile.

I have to ask who has made you the worldwide preeminent source of information, education, and certification assessment for the constantly evolving Search Engine Optimization (SEO) industry
What are your qualifiactions to be offering any kind of SEO certification?

[mikech]

Originally posted by Connie
Hi Mike and welcome.

I removed the URL per Forum Guidelines (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18677). You can add the site to your profile.

I have to ask who has made you the
What are your qualifiactions to be offering any kind of SEO certification?

I have been in the training and certification industry since 1996. My first position was President and CEO of Micro Tech USA and Assoc. Inc. which employed 46 developers/writers. We at the time were one of the pioneering companies for training and preparation material for the Microsoft, Cisco, and Comptia exams. We were the first IT training company to publish our own book with New Riders Publishing. In 1997 we were nominated by Dunn and Bradstreet to Entreprenuer Magazines "Hot 100 fastest growing companies in the US".

After Micro Tech was sold in 1999, I formed my own training firm which successfully operated until last year when it too was sold. During this time period, I was heavily involved in the marketing end of the website and worked alongside some of the industy's top SEO experts.

My background is sound in managing the SEO certification Program as I have:

Leadership experience

Training and certification experience

Search engine optimization and website marketing experience.

I have a proven track record of success making money through online marketing and product promotion.

I realize the statement you quoted from our home page is forward thinking. We do plan on taking this certification program to the next level and one day make it the industry standard.

Thank You...

[WebSavvy]

You seem to have the "background" based on what you've stated in your post, however what (if anything) will it mean to have a certificate from a non-accredited "web school???"

Unless you're able to provide some sort of Educational standard regulatory body, the "certificate" virtually isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I don't mean to sound harsh, or put down your ideas. I'm all for any organization that is legitimately trying to make a difference.

If a "black hat" SEO applies for your "certificate" and passes the courses, will s/he also receive your "seal of approval?"

Please do some serious research into this, as an endeavor such as this should not be entered into lightly.

We have a member here named Edward Lewis (pageoneresults) who runs SEO Consultants. I'd suggest maybe getting together with Edward as maybe he can somehow help you with regard to this project.

I sincerely wish you the best with it. :)

[mikech]

Hello,
Yes accreditation is a very imortant aspect of the certification process. In order to apply for accreditation, we must demonstrate a record of our training, results, processes, etc... We will be applying with various boards for approval after a few months of operations.

As far as the "Black Hat" SEO's, I do beleive we have thought about this rather thouroghly. We have a set approval process in which we review an applicants website for outstanding "black hat" techniques. Nothing extremely thorough but just an initial qualifier. In addition, we have a dispute resolution committee that will review any consumer complaints about members. We also have a code of ethics in which all members will be required to agree to. If a member is found to be in default by the committee, they will be stripped of their certification immediately.

We are not looking to become a governing body such as SEMPO but just simply offering a standardized exam format in which those who wont to call themselves industry professionals can do so and be backed with the credentials to prove it.

I realize everything you are pointing out and have done extensive research on the subject. True, SEO is not an exact science as stated in previous SEO certification discussions. On the other hand, don't you think SEO's should demonstrate to consumers that they know the basics such as:

(off the top of my head so please bear with me)
1. Search engine relationships, who links and provides to whom.
2. What practices will get your customers sites banned and how to avoid them.
3. How exactly do search engines work.
4. What are the multiple definitions of spam and how each search engine defines them.
5. An explaination of various tags and the importance of each.
6. The processes in which you can measure link popularity in various engines
7.The definitions of different linking scenarios such as one way, reciprical, and triangular.
8. Dynamic pages? URL rewrites? PPC bidding strategies? etc...

As you can see there are a lot of debatable techniques, our exam just identifies them and does not always take a side on what technique is superior to others. It is all about the definition and not primarilly the techniques.

I appreciate your feedback and well wishes and will continue to research and re-evaluate the structure as we move forward.

Yes, there are too many Black Hat SEO's out there and this is the primary reason I sold my previous company and started the SEO Certification program. The process is used successfully in many other industries in order to seperate those with skills, determination, and ethics, from the rest.

Thanks again....

[mikech]

"We have a member here named Edward Lewis (pageoneresults) who runs SEO Consultants. I'd suggest maybe getting together with Edward as maybe he can somehow help you with regard to this project."

I have spoke with him briefly a few months back and he did tell me that they had planned an SEO certification program down the road but did not feel the industry is ready for it and have shifted their focus elsewhere. I on the other hand think that it is well overdue.

I do consider Edward to be an industry insider but that is what is great about SEO's, we can agree to disagree :)

[Quadrille]

You certainly give the impression that you've put time and energy into this - I look forward to hearing more as you progress.

If the accreditation is periodic / ongoing - as rapid SEO change suggests it needs to be - then you also have the opportunity to start with a broad (but not too broad!) program, and tighten up over a period of a couple of years.

That would enable you to spread your net reasonably wide, while having a level that should be taken seriously from day 1.

I also agree that such a project is well overdue - I hope you can convince enough people of that, to make it work!

[WebSavvy]

I'm a former Teacher of 20 years, so I approach "education" from a different POV.

IMO one cannot simply put up a website, offer some guidelines which one must pass in order to become certified, and present a certificate upon completion, unless the persons behind the site have some sort of quantifiable Teaching experience (e.g., a Degree or a Certificate from an Accredited Institute of Higher Education).

Otherwise, all it boils down to is another "HTML school" (e.g., Robin Nobles' "course").

Kalena Jordan runs one too, called Search Engine College. AFAIK, she does have the support of some AU SE (last I knew).

I'm not an SEO, however, I do work with many that are. If a potential client wants to know if the SEO s/he has hired (or is considering to hire) knows HTML, practices white hat techniques, knows and understands code/mod_rewrite/.htaccess, etc. -- all the client needs to do is simply ask for references.

Most SEOs have a clientele for whom they're able to provide as references.

I'm sorry, but if I were in the position of needing to hire an SEO I certainly wouldn't say "Oh, you have a certificate from some unaccredited web school I've never heard of. Great! You're hired!"

No, instead I'd say, "Please provide me with a list of your current and former clients with whom I might be able to verify your qualifications. If I'm satisfied with what I discover, I may hire you."

[mikech]

Thanks Quadrille, if it can work, we will make it work. It is a process but definately worth undertaking.

[Quadrille]

I've just taken a look at your site.

I suspect you won't get too many beta testers at $35, without more detail on how final accreditation will work.

You might also consider the HONcode (http://www.hon.ch/HONcode/) approach - accredited members display a clickable logo on their sites, which then verifies its authenticity.

Your logo needs to be year-specific - else you'll not stop people using it years after they've ceased to be viable (and years after they've stopped paying you!

And, of course, you'll need sm / tm protection.

Good Luck!

[mikech]

Originally posted by savvy1
I'm a former Teacher of 20 years, so I approach "education" from a different POV.

IMO one cannot simply put up a website, offer some guidelines which one must pass in order to become certified, and present a certificate upon completion, unless the persons behind the site have some sort of quantifiable Teaching experience (e.g., a Degree or a Certificate from an Accredited Institute of Higher Education).

Otherwise, all it boils down to is another "HTML school" (e.g., Robin Nobles' "course").

Kalena Jordan runs one too, called Search Engine College. AFAIK, she does have the support of some AU SE (last I knew).

I'm not an SEO, however, I do work with many that are. If a potential client wants to know if the SEO s/he has hired (or is considering to hire) knows HTML, practices white hat techniques, knows and understands code/mod_rewrite/.htaccess, etc. -- all the client needs to do is simply ask for references.

Most SEOs have a clientele for whom they're able to provide as references.

I'm sorry, but if I were in the position of needing to hire an SEO I certainly wouldn't say "Oh, you have a certificate from some unaccredited web school I've never heard of. Great! You're hired!"

No, instead I'd say, "Please provide me with a list of your current and former clients with whom I might be able to verify your qualifications. If I'm satisfied with what I discover, I may hire you."

That is all fine and dandy but being a teacher does not exactly make you an SEO. I think my credentials for this particular subject are a little more specified than being a teacher as I have worked specifically on certification programs for the past 10 years. I know there are standards and we plan to meet them and that is for the accredited institutions to decide.

As far as "HTML school" and "Search Engine College", I am aware of them and think they have fine training programs but they do not offer a "certification" that is aspiring to be the industry standard.

Hiring by a list of former clients and proven experience is fine too. What about the people who want to enter the SEO field but do not have them. As you know, this industry and the demand for quality SEO's are growing on a daily basis. How does one enter the field? How does one demonstrate that they have met certain guidelines and posess certain qualifications for an entry level position?

It seems as though everyone is afraid of change or the added competition in the marketplace or something. I see nothing but resistance to an industry standardized certification program and hear many reasons why it will not work. I will do my best to make it work.

It is truly time to take this industry to the next level. As you are aware, SEO's by trade do not exactly have the best reputations. Of course we know that there are great SEO firms out there that produce amazing results and act in a professional manner The publics persona on the other hand, is the typical ebay ad type SEO that will put your name into submission software, charge only $25, and guarantee you #1 placement.

"I'm sorry, but if I were in the position of needing to hire an SEO I certainly wouldn't say "Oh, you have a certificate from some unaccredited web school I've never heard of. Great! You're hired!"

They don't do that in other respectable industries either.

I do appreciate your input and understand your point of view in some instances but I beleive that a certification program for SEO's is overdue.

[mikech]

Originally posted by Quadrille
I've just taken a look at your site.

I suspect you won't get too many beta testers at $35, without more detail on how final accreditation will work.

You might also consider the HONcode (http://www.hon.ch/HONcode/) approach - accredited members display a clickable logo on their sites, which then verifies its authenticity.

Your logo needs to be year-specific - else you'll not stop people using it years after they've ceased to be viable (and years after they've stopped paying you!

And, of course, you'll need sm / tm protection.

Good Luck!

Good points indeed, we are already working on verification solutions with the logo's. We are not charging forum members $35, it is free per my post. The site is about 90% complete and should be fully operational shortly. Thanks for your input, I am always open for constructive criticism.

[WebSavvy]

Teaching ability aside, what is your own Industry track record?
I don't see any information regarding that on your site.

How many sites have you actually practiced SEO on yourself?
Again, I do not see any information on your site regarding this.

What about providing a list of your former and current clients?
How many sites have you had banned from the SEs due to your SEO techniques?

Are you a member of SEMPO or any other known SEO Agency?
Are you a Speaker at SES?

Expect that people will automatically be skeptical simply because they've never heard of you.

Now, if Doug Heil, or John Bates, or any of the other SEOs in these forums, or a few other forums I'm aware of, began a school such as this -- people probably wouldn't be as skeptical. Simply because those people are SEOs whom we've all heard of.

If you want SEOs to take your "school" seriously, you need to provide details about your own SEO experience (including a verifiable list of clients).

Anyone can read a book and call themselves an SEO. It's the same in the web design industry. Some newbie buys some editing and design software and now they're suddenly a designer.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I am just asking questions in an effort to get enough information to form an opinion one way or the other.

Good luck, I suspect this will be an all uphill battle.

[mikech]

The certification itself will be run by committess and industry peers similar to the names you have mentioned. My SEO abilities should not reflect on an entire industry. More information regarding committee members and their qualifications will come in time.

[mikech]

As far as webmaster certifications, there are some respectable ones out there including WOW and CWP to name a few...

[grungee]

Hi Mike,
I am just an average every day website owner, I would be one of the kind of people that would be interested in doing some kind of course on seo (not to become an seo but for my website). There are thousands of us out there that want our sites to be top of the serps.

I was just wondering how you will deal with the updates that especially google make from time to time, there is no warning (well little warning now thanks to matt cutts) so how does your accreditation deal with that?

[WebSavvy]

My SEO abilities should not reflect on an entire industry.
As the Dr. teaching Medicine says, "My skills to practice Medicine should not affect my ability to teach it."

Thanks. I've heard all I need to know now.

[ihelpyou]

Welcome! :hi:
The certification itself will be run by committess and industry peers similar to the names you have mentioned.
Peers of who? We in here are our own peers. I certainly don't align my firm with ALL of the firms who are buddies with spammers, or spammers themselves.

I also would never align myself with any organization who allowed any spammer to join.

We are not looking to become a governing body such as SEMPO but just simply offering a standardized exam format in which those who wont to call themselves industry professionals can do so and be backed with the credentials to prove it.
Do you think SEMPO is a governing body of this industry? If you actually think that, then you are really lost and alone with that thought.

So you are basically saying a good SEO can pass your test, put up a seal, and then claim they are a Professional SEO?

What about those firms who would never tell a client their website needs a redesign, and would take that client's money to try and fix things without changing the look of the site? The site will never make a sale, but by golly, it's in the top ten!! LOL

SEO = Website Design
Website Design = SEO

You did not mention that SEO IS design, did you? I don't see any questions along those lines anyway. You also do not mention ROI and if the website can convert visitors into buyers. If you have a site in the top ten on a great phrase, but the visitors just leave the site, do you think the SEO who helped the site get there is actually a Professional SEO?

I believe your definition of what makes a good SEO is vastly different than my definition of a "Professional" SEO.

[ihelpyou]

(off the top of my head so please bear with me)
1. Search engine relationships, who links and provides to whom.
2. What practices will get your customers sites banned and how to avoid them.
3. How exactly do search engines work.
4. What are the multiple definitions of spam and how each search engine defines them.
5. An explaination of various tags and the importance of each.
6. The processes in which you can measure link popularity in various engines
7.The definitions of different linking scenarios such as one way, reciprical, and triangular.
8. Dynamic pages? URL rewrites? PPC bidding strategies? etc...
#1 Why is this important to know?

#2 Why would a "good" SEO have to avoid anything, nor read the guidelines to begin with?

#3 well, the basics maybe.

#4 Definitions of spam? What is important about that?

#5 okay

#6 Why do I have to "measure" link popularity, and what benefit is this measurement to my client?

#7 Why should I know what triangular is, and why is this a benefit to my client that I should know this?

#8 PPC?? Since I NEVER do PPC, why should I know anything about it but the very basics. You place an ad. You get clicks and visitors. You pay for those visitors. Easy enough. And why do you think that SEO has anything to do with PPC in the first place? :)

[mikech]

Each has their own opinion and I value all. Some of you are acting quite defensive as if you think that an industry standardized exam would hurt you. Remember, your position, experience level, current knowledge is different than everyone else Ihelpyou. Sounds like you are well versed at what you do. What are you worried about, you would pass with flying colors. Not everyone is at your level yet and some may aspire to be, without the sarcasm of course :) I won't attempt to challenge your opinions on the points I brought up before because they are just that, your opinions. I am sad to hear that you think the program will not take off, but I continue anyway.

Thanks...

[WebSavvy]

Mike, I asked you questions that a buyer would ask you. I'm not an SEO and have never done any SEO related work.

I used to do web design, but retired from it more than 4 years ago and with some 400 clients to my credit.

The SEOs I "work with" (as it were) are SEOs that are my editors at my web directory. I have several well known SEOs that are volunteer editors in my directory.

The reason we have SEOs as editors is largely due to the huge amounts of spammy websites people submit and expect us to index. Our editors look at everything from content, to links out, links in, source code, etc., in an effort to make sure we only list high quality family safe sites which do not violate SE guidelines.

So, the questions I've asked weren't from the "I'm afraid of the competition" POV (as I've stated I am not an SEO -- e.g., not concerned with the competition).

I asked questions from a "persuade me to buy" POV. At some point, I may want to dabble in SEO (not for a living but just so I'd know what I'm doing on my own sites).

However, if you're unable to show me what your experience is, I can't make an informed decision about how much I would be able to learn from you and if what I learn from you would be standard white hat SEO techniques.

The *ONLY* way for me to be able to determine that, is to ask questions.

Now, remove "me" from this, and insert "John Q. Public" ... refusing to provide vital information to him/her will cost you sales and credibility.

What you take away from this exchange is up to you. However, please be aware that people (the average Joe) will question you as I have, and if expecting to part with their hard earned money, you'd be best served by having actual answers to provide them Vs glossing over their line of questioning as if it didn't matter.

HTH.

[g1smd]

I think the worry is that people would "study a course", then "take an exam", and instantly be able to say "I am an expert", when in fact their learning has only just begun.

The other trouble is, is that there is no way the course could keep up with current methods. They change very quickly.

Also, how will someone having a "certificate" actually stop those that engage in spammy methods from continuing to use them?



My ex-dentist was a sheister. He had all the "certs", had all the recommendations, but still did shoddy work. See what I mean?

[Blue]

Welcome to the forums mikech!!! :hi:

You must certainly realize why we are taking what you say with a grain of salt (versus being defensive, which we're not) and as well you must realize why we are questioning your endeavour. Don't you?

I mean, look at what we are up against! We are currently fighting a battle, and it is one that has been up a very steep hill from the get-go, to help the innocent and gullible not get taken in by blackhat shysters whom are only in the game for their own benefit.

Further, we are fighting within our own industry, with the type of people whom apparently have a complete lack of professional ethics ... and many of these are so-called leaders of this industry.

Your proposition, is a noble one, but for it to have a chance in hell of being successful, you would need the endorsement of a group like us ... the whitest of the whitehats. Otherwise, I (and probably we) only see it falling through the cracks because of not having enough moral fortitude to take a stance that clearly places itself on the right side of the lines of demarcation.

I am not trying to be negative, nor am I saying that we are your only hope or that you would even need us to succeed. Nor am I tooting our collective horns.

It's just that this industry is so full of strife, it is only logical that the stance one in your position must take to fully succeed in it's mission of defining standards would need to be fanatically whitehat just to be in the best interest of the public.

I would applaud your efforts if you could accomplish this.

[mikech]

Savvy,
I understand where you are coming from and am not taking it personal nor holding grudges for your line of questioning. In actuality I embrace the constructive criticism and thank you for the opportunity to discuss this.

Gismd,
"I think the worry is that people would "study a course", then "take an exam", and instantly be able to say "I am an expert", when in fact their learning has only just begun."

I agree with you fully and this is the same concern in every industry that has a certification program. In the IT field, these types are refered to as paper MCSE's. I don't expext that debate to ever go away.

"The other trouble is, is that there is no way the course could keep up with current methods. They change very quickly."

Nobody is ever up to date with the un-known, we will keep everything current as updates are instant with online delivery. We intend to keep the content based on known facts which do not change as much as you might think.

"Also, how will someone having a "certificate" actually stop those that engage in spammy methods from continuing to use them?"

There is never a guarantee that this will not happen and as a matter of fact, I expect it to. This is why we designed the dispute resolution process in which anyone can report on a member. If you ever see a Certified SEO spamming, you can and should report them. The offense will go up for review by the committee and based on the severeness, they will be warned or have their certification status taken away.

[ihelpyou]

Your proposition, is a noble one, but for it to have a chance in hell of being successful, you would need the endorsement of a group like us ... the whitest of the whitehats. Otherwise, I (and probably we) only see it falling through the cracks because of not having enough moral fortitude to take a stance that clearly places itself on the right side of the lines of demarcation.
And that is "it" in a very good short and sweet summary. Thanks blue for stating what I could not write. :)

All of these very good points you would have to answer Mike. I find it quite astonishing that you would go ahead with this without the approval or endorsement from the one group who makes the most waves in this industry? Don't you think "we" are the one group you would have to win over from the very beginning?

And yes; My opinion is just that... my opinion, but if you don't get me and "we" on your side, how would you begin to believe this cert program would have any legs at all?

And further; I tried looking for "any" information at all about "who" is behind this program, but there is Not a single page devoted to telling anyone "who" you are, or who are helping you, or who are these people behind the scenes you mention of? No one in here would be associated with "any" group if they did not work up to the very highest standards of being Professional. I'm not talking about a glance only at a firm's website, but am talking about a thorough vetting process that would eliminate "most" of the high profile firms you may now see as being our leaders. Yes, that's a fact.

Do you see?

[ihelpyou]

by the committee
Who?

[mikech]

Thank you for the kind welcome and your input BLUE. I do realize how important support is from groups like yours, that is why I am here. If I were in this to make a quick buck, I would not even be on this board. I am passionate about this and I will stop at nothing until it is done. Are there some wholes in my proposals? ABSOLUTELY !! I know there is a hard road ahead, I know there are going to be questions about course issues and exam questions, I know there is going to be some resistance from other organizations in the SEO industry, I know that the accreditation process will be gruelling and expensive mind you. etc.. etc.. etc..

IHelpYou,
I completely understand that you need more information and it will be forthcoming as we organize further. Right now we are kind of testing the whole process and content itself. Please reserve judgement until we send out the press releases :)

[mikech]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
Who?

You if you'd like :)

[WebSavvy]

OK, for all intents and purposes, you seem serious enough. However, in order for your Org to be taken seriously, you need to add the necessary vital information to your site first.

Asking people to participate in a beta test before you've even added the most basic introductory information to your site, is putting the cart way before the horse.

Put up information along the lines of everything we've pointed out here so far.

AFTER you've done that, I'd suggest to get in touch with people like Ian McAnerin (member here) and Terry of SEOPros (member here WebmasterT).

Both of these individuals would be able to help you shape your organization and help you to establish some sort of Industry guidelines.

Ian and Terry are both friends of mine and they're very nice people.

Ian has a background in Law, and is involved in the development of a few well known SEO Agencies, and is the official SEO at findlaw.com

Terry founded SEOPros several years ago and also has quite a reputation in the Industry.

For right now, that's about all I can think of. It's been a long day and I'm tired, but tomorrow I might have some better input for you.

HTH.

[mikech]

Thanks Savvy

[ihelpyou]

Surely you can tell us who "we" is? You don't need to be more organized before you tell us who is actually behind this, right?

I noticed 3 members so far on the member page. One is "private" and does not show the url. So members can opt to be a member in private as well?

[Quadrille]

Mike, none of the four names (including yourself) has any 'presence' or much experience, in the fast changing field of SEO.

If you had any 'names' or skills or companies associated with you, then you'd be shouting them from the rooftops.

But you remain strangely coy.

At least one of your 'names' has a history of offering stunning 'reviews' to someone who's actually linked in business, and at least one of them has no clue how to build a decent website - and no idea what SEO actually is, while at least one of them is operating a very dubious link exchange (Check those URLs - I did).

Your scheme is beginning to look very much like a scam.

Show me I'm wrong

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by mikech
My background is sound in managing the SEO certification Program as I have:

Leadership experience

Training and certification experience

Search engine optimization and website marketing experience.

I have a proven track record of success making money through online marketing and product promotion.Why is that wonderful record invisible on the web, where most of it allegedly took place?

I cannot link you to any of the companies you name, or to a company of your own (unnamed).

I can find no trace of your SEO or web marketing work, which can only be described as "odd".

You claim a "proven track record" - forgive me for being literal here, but doesn't that suggest there's some 'proof' to be seen?

[ihelpyou]

Heath Dukes is one of the three.

http://www.vhdsolutions.com/about.htm

Nothing to do with marketing or SEO or search engines. He's a programmer, so what does this have to do with our industry?

I also find it odd that you registered in here, and left out the "location" of where you are? I did a number of searches, and found nothing that applied to search engines and Mike Chamberlain.

I'm thinking more and more like a well thought out scam is being perpetrated. There is zero proof of anything related to our industry in any way, shape, or form.

[ihelpyou]

http://certisafe.net/

NOW I know you are full of crap. You are now officially banned from here as well. You are the lowest of the scum. That site is "exactly" like your cert site in EVERY way. Even down to the two banner type ads you display on the front page.

I'm totally pissed off. You blow. You need some jail time my friend.

[ihelpyou]

Copyright 2004 SEOcertification.org. All Rights Reserved

On the other site this is at the bottom:

Copyright 2004. All Rights Reserved. LOL

LOL The date of 2004 is on every page.

index.php is linked to the front page on every site.

SEO101 states that you use the the .org when linking back to your front page, and not the file name. DUH??

What a scam.

Another SEO101 states that you do a 301 redirect so as to only get one or the other indexed.... with www, or without www. You have both that work.

We should have done this research on your site the first day you posted. My fault. Sometimes I tend to trust too much. I forget that there are very bad people in this world.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.maxim-studios.com/

Matter of fact; they built all the sites including the siteexchange site and the ads site. It's probably you and your three buddies who are behind them all. That developer happens to know nothing about search engines and how to be found on the internet. They have a site that is invisible.

[Quadrille]

"We take great pride in all our projects" - I'd be deeply ashamed at designing sites for scam artists.

I'd also be shy of claiming to be a web design company, and listing a portfolio of sites that mostly look pretty much alike.

Or maybe maxim-studios is yet another scam - they take your design fees and ... er, that's it?

[WebSavvy]

This thread should be moved to the Best Practices forum where all of the other scams and web filth are exposed.

I knew my gut instinct about this was correct ... once again.

[JohnC]

Man ... I'm gone for one day and look at all the fun I miss... :PMy first position was President and CEO of Micro Tech USA and Assoc. Inc. This had me sceptical from his second post. Who becomes Pres/CEO as his first job?

[WebSavvy]

Doug banned him. Now he's signed up as new member mike cham just so he can post to this thread (verified by whois online).

Tisk. Tisk. Looks like mike cham is now banned too.

[WebSavvy]

I have a feeling he'll just keep signing up as a new member until he can post more twaddle to this thread.

I'm going to lock it until Doug comes back in later, at which time he can ban this guy's IP address and unlock the thread if he chooses to.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.seo-optimized.com/

That's a member of this seocertification.org .

Scroll to the bottom of the page to see all those lovely links leading to crappy websites.

I hate SCAMMERS and SCUM.

It really should be against the law to offer up this certification and know absolutely nothing about search engines or the industry. I'm pissed off about this.

www.seocertification.org

I'm real pissed off.

[Quadrille]

All we need now is for pageoneresults to come and say what a great guy he is - but hopefully even he hasn't fallen that far ...

[WebSavvy]

Q! Your avatar is just too funny!!! :uplaugh:

[Quadrille]

I like to be topical. :)

Can't imagine which thread prompted me this time :rolleyes:

[Mel66]

Maybe this guy should hook up with the DMA. They're offering "Search Engine Marketing Certification" now.

http://www.the-dma.org/conferences/dma06/certificationsearchmarketing.shtml

Melissa

[Quadrille]

Do you think it's catching?

Is there a vaccine?

Maybe I'll pop up to the International Space Station until it dies down a bit. :)

[ihelpyou]

LOL

The Direct Marketing Association ??

they are older than my great great grandfather. :D

What the hell do they know about search engines? LOL

[ihelpyou]

This is what they know:

http://www.the-dma.org/conferences/dma06/searchenginecertificationschedule.pdf

LOL

It's short and sweet but oh what a treat. :D

And people will be scammed into some certification just because they will not think a google site map is mandatory for "submission". LOL

[Mel66]

It's funny to people like us who know what SEM is *really* about. However, my fear is that DMA's core of traditional marketers will see this and actually think they can learn SEM from it. It's kinda scary. Really scary actually.

Melissa

[ihelpyou]

Good point. We think there are people that jump online,..build a site... then claim they are a SEM/SEO now? Just wait until that membership thinks they know a thing or two. :rolleyes:

[davidtemple]

Thanks for the info on the seocertification dude. As far as DMA is concerned it looks like they have a good lineup of instructors that do know seo but I think the term certification is a misnomer. By the way anyone heard anymore about SEMPO seo certification?

[Quadrille]

Read my avatar - the pic is another service, but they are all the same.

Until there's some 'standard' to aim for, and some independence in assessment, then a certificate is worth nothing.

I'm not saying you'll learn nothing - that's a separate debate!

[ihelpyou]

Hi David, Believe me; any "cert" you get without the main people of our industry backing it will not get you anything at all but a few dollars less in your pocket as the cert would not be free. :)

[Connie]

Personally I would be as leery of SEMPO as any other company that offered certification.