Itscoldoutside Defends Spamming

[sytemaker]

Hi everyone,

I have a client who has been with me for year or so. During that time I have achieved very good ranking on very targeted key phrases. However, it seems that he is being seduced by another company who on the face of it are using what I suspect to be less than legitimate methods. But just to make sure this isn't professional jealousy I thought I'd better consult some other experts.

I spoke to the client today and by what he told me this other company were going to use some form of doorway pages. I warned him against using that method and he consequently got in touch with them and forwarded the two emails to me. This is what he wrote to them:

James,

I’ve had a worrying conversation with someone that may impact our Ice marketing campaign. They warned against using ‘doorway’ pages that could potentially lead us to be blacklisted on search sites.

Can Itscoldoutside reassure me that this will not happen?

I am concerned that the ICE method wasn’t explained fully before payment, and that it may potentially cause us problems in the future. I would like a full explanation of the consequences, and any thoughts you may have on the resolution of the problem.

Sorry for the panicky nature of the email… I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

Howard


Their reply was:

Dear Howard,

What you are talking about is the key to why we can do what we say we do and other people can’t do it or work out how we do it.

Indeed your friend/colleague is correct. When a search engine robot looks at a site to see if it will catalogue it or not it does look for the code that would indicate a doorway page. If it sees that it bans the site and follows the doorway and bans the other site. Our solution…fool the robot.

I can 100% reassure you that your site will not get banned or spammed by any of our actions.

On a more logical note…how long do you think we would stay in business if we got everyone of our customers banned? We would dissolve within a week and we would be sued a hundred times over by companies who have lost their internet presence…and therefore much of their earning?



Now I don't know about you but when someone talks about "fooling the robot" I immediately get warning bells going off in the back of my head. Could they be potentially talking about cloaking? Furthermore, on their web page (http://www.itscoldoutside.com/web_marketing.html) they are talking about "guaranteeing" first page results within eight weeks. That means further warning bells for me.

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Rolf

[qwerty]

If they're so confident that their methods are safe and their clients are happy with them, your client should ask for a few references from clients who have been using their service for at least a year.

But I agree. Their boast that they can fool the search engines is more than a tip-off. They're saying that they're spammers.

[ihelpyou]

Yes, they are saying they are spammers. And they "ARE" spammers. They are cheats.

Trust me, they would "never" give you any clients to ask questions. I dare them to post just "one" client in here. That client would be banned instantly.

Trust your instincts. You absolutely know they are spammers. Tell your client it's his decision and he has to live with that decision. Many of us have ethics. Many companies have ethics as well. That company has none.

[copycatweb]

Hi, I've been asked by a local business to have a look at their website and it appears, (from my limited experience) that itscoldoutside, from Manchester, are cloaking their web pages. Their website is www.platesofdistinction.co.uk - they have a NO-CACHE in the meta tags and the Google description contains text that doesn't exist on the real HTML pages.

They say they aren't doing this but I'm not so sure.

Any advice anyone and any thoughts on itscoldoutside as I've heard some negative things about them.

Ta, Craig

[WebSavvy]

Your post is somewhat unclear. The "local business" that's asked you to look at their site, is the one you suspect is cloaking?

Or, is the site you suspect is cloaking a competitor of the "local business" that's asked you to look at their site?

If the "local business" that's asked you to look at their site, is the one you suspect is cloaking, all you have to do is decline their business.

As an SEO, who you accept as a client is up to you. If they want to hire you, you need to make them understand that in order to do your job correctly and professionally, they need to advise you about every SEO firm they've hired, and every technique they've employed both ethical and non-ethical.

If they're holding anything back from you, and you're not made aware of it from the onset, any work you do for them would in essence have no tangible affect on any SE positions, etc., and would ultimately in the end be a waste of their money and your time.

[Irony]

No Deb, copycatweb says the www.platesofdistinction.co.uk (the competitor) are probably cloaking. I checked quickly, and looks like they most probably do cloak.

[WebSavvy]

Hi, I've been asked by a local business to have a look at their website and it appears, (from my limited experience) that itscoldoutside, from Manchester, are cloaking their web pages.

Lead to the confusion, Irina. Followed by this:

Their website is www.platesofdistinction.co.uk - they have a NO-CACHE in the meta tags and the Google description contains text that doesn't exist on the real HTML pages.

The words "competitor" were not mentioned at all, thus, his post was unclear to me as it was written.

[g1smd]

It read quite clearly to me:

A local business (the one named above) suspects that their own pages on their own website have been cloaked by ICO and have asked CCW to check it out...

[WebSavvy]

OK. LOL. Glad you guys "got that" because I didn't. My headache must be worse than I thought. ;)

[Connie]

Originally posted by savvy1
OK. LOL. Glad you guys "got that" because I didn't. My headache must be worse than I thought. ;)
You weren't the only one confused, and I don't have a headache. :D

Irina, and G1 did clear things up.

[copycatweb]

Sorry for the confusion! platesofdistinction.co.uk (POD) have approached us to work on their website. They are using a company at the moment called itscoldoutside and when I looked, it appeared that itscoldouside are using cloaking methods on the POD site, despite saying they aren't.

POD want to move hosting to us but I'm not happy taking a site onto our server that is using cloaking hence trying to find out if they were indeed using cloaking.

Can anyone else lend there support to my argument before I go back to POD with the bad news!!

Thanks, CT

[Irony]

If you wish to know for sure, you can ask them to stop all the SEO work for a while (so that the other company doesn't touch anything) and remove the metatags that turn the cacheing off. Then you wait for a few days until Google indexes the site, and compare the cached version and the one visible to human visitors.

That's the only way to check (unless you care to spoof IP addresses :D ).

[Danny]

It's unclear why they prevent the homepage from being cached.
It could be a poor attemt to solve their duplicate content problem due to a www and non-www version + the duplicate .com domain.
I think this gives to show that they don't have a clue about what they're doing.

A spider simulator did not show any different content (which is no guarantee but usually a good indicator) and the site shows in the SERP's for a query on a long keyword-less sentence contained in their homepage.

That's enough reason for me to believev that they're NOT cloaking.

[Irony]

Yes Danny, but if you do a site: search and check the snippet that Google places under the home page's name, it's nowhere in the code of the page. It could mean they recently changed the content, of course, but I would still recommend to do a test, as I mentioned above.

The NO-CACHE thing definitely can't solve the duplicate content problem, but can get them in trouble :)

[Danny]

Woohooo ! amazing stuff

There is no description meta tag on this site, so i figured it must have been a DMOZ description. I was wrong.
Some research makes me suspect that the description is taken from a title property given in a link on other pages.

One of the pages where i could spot this property was on
http://www.airlinemeals.co.uk/suffix-car-number-plate.html
(Checkout the source to see it)

Now, more fun can be seen when searching msn for a snippet of that description in the site:search.

the msn search (http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=%22Trendy+new+unique+personalised+number+plates%22&FORM=MSNH&srch_type=0)

sc*m

[sytemaker]

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14565

The company I was referring to in that particular thread was ICO. So I would recommend your client to ditch them at the earliest opportunity.

[ihelpyou]

LOL
Indeed your friend/colleague is correct. When a search engine robot looks at a site to see if it will catalogue it or not it does look for the code that would indicate a doorway page. If it sees that it bans the site and follows the doorway and bans the other site. Our solution…fool the robot.

I can 100% reassure you that your site will not get banned or spammed by any of our actions.

On a more logical note…how long do you think we would stay in business if we got everyone of our customers banned? We would dissolve within a week and we would be sued a hundred times over by companies who have lost their internet presence…and therefore much of their earning?
That is 'itscoldoutside' response in that other thread.

The fully admit they are spammers. Trust me; just because a spammer is "getting away" with spamming now does not mean a darn thing.

Report this company to Google and all other se's. If you know their clients, inform their clients as well about this spammer.

I think this is a classic case of what goes on behind closed doors between a SEO spammer and their clients in this industry. This is a reason why our industry has the reputation it has.

We need to rid our industry of SEO's who refuse to abide by stated se guidelines. Other forums and conferences who embrace these people need to be put in their rightful place...... OUT OF our industry.

[ihelpyou]

www.itscoldoutside-marketing.com

www.itscoldoutside.com

They even have different domains for the same darn company and did not bother to change the look or layout of them.

[mleeney]

Hello Members!!

I have watched this thread build over a while now. And I thought it was time to put you all out of your misery. So Listen up.

Itscoldoutside do not repeat do not cloak. www.platesofdistinction.co.uk

I should know I own Itscoldoutside Limited.

I wish you all success in your business life, Please note it is so unprofessional to call a company when you can't even work out what we're doing. I don't care what you do or how good you think you are.

Oh and plates of distinction are still with Itscoldoutside maybe because we have the following stats for them


27 Page 1 position 1's and 93 page1 positions not in position 1 in Google yahoo and MSN.

If you need help getting positions for your clients then please contact
[Self Promotion removed -- READ THE GUIDELINES!]

[SIGS NOT ALLOWED -- READ THE GUIDELINES]

:hi:

[mleeney]

[added by mod: see also This Thread (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22574) - Thanks!]

Hi Doug,

Well you dared me and here I am.

Check this site out www.itscoldoutside-marketing.com . We market this site on some less difficult phrases. This site is not cloaked and platesof distinction is not cloaked either.


WE DO NOT CLOAK OUR CLIENTS SITES

I find your comments unprofessional as you have absolutely no idea about what, or how, we achieve our clients positions.

We only use accepted methods.

Regards


Martin
ICO MD
:hi:

[ihelpyou]

Welcome! :hi:

Sorry bud; YOU are a spammer. Simple enough? Who cares if what you are doing is not cloaking? It's spam no matter how you spin it.
27 Page 1 position 1's and 93 page1 positions not in position 1 in Google yahoo and MSN.
Yes, until Google reads this thread and bans your client's site, right? What happens then? Just because your spam is working today does not mean it will be working tomorrow.

[ihelpyou]

I've replied to "both" of your spammer threads now.

No buddy; You are the firm who is VERY Unprofessional. You are a spammer. Period. Don't you find it funny that two members in here from two very different calendar dates have both called out your firm as a spammer? Why is that? :green:

Your firm is a search engine spammer.
I dare them to post just "one" client in here.
BTW: I said to post a "client" website, not your own firm's website. lol Do you know the difference?
We only use accepted methods.
Acceptable to whom? You? lol
Better yet; Please show your client's site to Matt Cutts in his blog:
www.mattcutts.com/blog

He'll be happy to review your client's sites. If Google looked at them, would they say your firm uses "acceptable" methods? NOT. Google; here is the client website:
www.platesofdistinction.co.uk

I feel the se's need to ban this firm's "two" websites:
itscoldoutside-marketing.com
itscoldoutside.com

Don't ban the client site as it's obvious this client was mislead.

[ihelpyou]

Further:
Indeed your friend/colleague is correct. When a search engine robot looks at a site to see if it will catalogue it or not it does look for the code that would indicate a doorway page. If it sees that it bans the site and follows the doorway and bans the other site. Our solution…fool the robot.
Are you actually trying to tell my members and readers in here that "fooling the robot" is not spam?

Me thinks you need to do lots of reading AND learning in here about how to use "best practices" in our industry. Have you "ever" read the guidelines posted at Google, Yahoo, and MSN? Do you have any idea what search engine spam is?

[mleeney]

Hello Doug,


Itscoldoutside do not spam either and I am unsure if you even know what the definition of spam is??

Please tell me how you think we spam.

What we do is create title, keyword and description tags, H1-H6 tags, Alt tags and other tags.

We make sure relevant content is on the page for each page.

and we write articles in prweb.com and other pr outlets to generate backlinks. So where is the spamming?
:D

[ihelpyou]

You just told me over the phone that if spam was what I call spam, then every website out there is spamming, right? Do you really believe we all are spammers?

My definition of search engine spam is what the search engine guidelines say is spam.

What's your definition?

Is the idea that you write in prweb suppose to be a good thing?

[ihelpyou]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLC%2CGGLC%3A1969-53%2CGGLC%3Aen&q=site%3Awww.platesofdistinction.co.uk&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB

Google shows "3" indexed pages for your client, right? All three of those pages have the "exact" same title tag, right?

You just stated you create title tags for your client, right? You also stated that this client is still your client, right?

Now tell us again that you do not spam?

Also; Why does this client want to use the nocache for his front page, and not use it for the other pages? I would think if they use nocache, they don't want Google showing a copy of what they spidered, right? So why not do the nocache on every page?

[mleeney]

Hey Doug you moved my post. What's the problem.

I just checked out your website. It's out of date and your idea of SEO is a joke. Lets take a view ;

<TITLE>Real Estate Search Engine</TITLE>Great keyphrase Doug
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="description" content=" Real Estate Search Engines for Easy Real Estate search results that benefit both Real Estate Buyers and Sellers. Plus a special section for the Real Estate Pro. ">
<meta name="keywords" content="Real Estate Search Engines realestate engine ">Great keyphrase research Doug

What's this you haven't got a clue.

And Galleria Gift Baskets isn't even up to date. Maybe you lost that client who knows.

<title>SEO = Website Design = ihelpyou, Inc.</title> Doug your a funny guy

Doug you need to retire now.

[ihelpyou]

You are right; My site is out of date as that real site has not been a client for awhile now. No idea what they are doing. But what's that got to do with spamming?

I did not move your post at all.

[mleeney]

Hey Doug

Are you getting upset.

Yes I know what the guidelines are and guess what you are breaking them in this forum so that makes you a (Spammer)

Well done.




:cheers:

[searchenginemarketing4u]

Hmmm....I wonder if ICO are still using their 'frame relocation pages'. This is a quote from ICO cold calling reps.

There is still a nice thread from searchengineforums ranking well for 'itscoldoutside' on Google :p

[mleeney]

If this site is spam doug report it to Google and any other search engine you want to.

They won't ban it because its good.

The title issue is news to me. Sometimes our clients upload over the work we do this is probably what's happened.

Hey you need to spend some time on your website www.ihelpyou.com.

It's a mess.

[moo]

Originally posted by mleeney
27 Page 1 position 1's and 93 page1 positions not in position 1 in Google yahoo and MSN.


Hi mleeney

Can you provide the keywords that these positions are based on? It's just that I'm having difficulty finding them.


Many thanks

Moo.

[mleeney]

Hey Moo,

NO WAY and do you want to know why?

YOU don't have a real profile buddy, Thats because you're a spammer like your mate that runs this website.

[Quadrille]

mleeney:

I split the thread - rather than hide your comments on a two-year old discussion, I gave you a thread of your own.

Sorry if that confused you.

Here it is:

Ihelpyou reply from Itscoldoutside (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21521)

[moo]

Originally posted by mleeney
Hey Moo,

NO WAY and do you want to know why?

YOU don't have a real profile buddy, Thats because you're a spammer like your mate that runs this website.

Now, now. Play fair. I've just registered. I think the question is worth asking, that's all.

And for the record, I don't know the chap who runs this site.


Moo.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by mleeney
Well you dared me and here I am.Doug's challenge was to show a client site; we knew where your site was.

Are you going to really respond to the 'dare' - or just keep trolling with your failed insults to Doug?

We await you decision in delightful anticipation (but we won't hold our breath).

[mleeney]

Hey Doug look at the numbers

Traffic Rank for ihelpyou.com: 20,622

Traffic Rank for itscoldoutside.com: 367,546

Alexa don't class us as spammers
Look at google we have a PR of 5 (That's Page rank Doug)
Look at Yahoo and MSN doug

Were not banned and never will be because once and for all we dont SPAM.

[Quadrille]

If you believe that Alexa tells you anything other than how many people visiting have alexa toolbars, then you are seriously in the wrong job.

And if you believe that alexa has any useful input into what is spam and what isn't, then you are on the wrong planet.

As an experiemnt, I put an alexa thingy on one of my sites last week; my rating has dropped from 774k to 377k.

Don't worry, once it stops dropping, I'll remove the code - the fact that my rating will go back up is neither here nor there.

It's a joke. Learn not use meaningless measures. So don't get me started on page rank - that's for your clients, I guess? Everyone here knows better! :D

All this deviation isn't actually moving us forward, is it, Mr Spammer?

[mleeney]

Hi,

We don't give out our client names that easily. Especially to people who we don't know. Also I wouldn't be here at all if it weren't for the insults thrown at us by the beloved Doug.

Also you have a load of Java issues with your website.

So before you start on me, why don't you fix your very average website.

Now I am sorry guys if I have offended anyone. But you have offended me. So i'll leave you all for a few months and when I have some time to spare i'll take another look at this site.


Lots of love and goodwill to you all especially Doug.

:D :) :cool:

[mleeney]

Hi,

We don't give out our client names that easily. Especially to people who we don't know. Also I wouldn't be here at all if it weren't for the insults thrown at us by the beloved Doug.

Also you have a load of Java issues with your website.

So before you start on me, why don't you fix your very average website.

Now I am sorry guys if I have offended anyone. But you have offended me. So i'll leave you all for a few months and when I have some time to spare i'll take another look at this site.


Lots of love and goodwill to you all especially Doug.

:D :)

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by mleeney
Also you have a load of Java issues with your website. So before you start on me, why don't you fix your very average website. Sorry, I hadn't realised we were talking about technical issues.

I thought we were talking about spam.

My very average web site does have its problems - I'm fairly technically challenged. But it's clean. And I'm learning. And it will stay clean.

I'd rather be average and clean than cheating Google with a ban hanging over my head, thanks. And I'm guessing your clients would rather get there the slower route than shine for a while then be nowhere.

[Connie]

When did Alexa numbers start having anything to do with SE SPAM?

Unless it's changed Alexa ranking only has to do with the number of visits a site gets from people who have the Alexa TB installed. IMHO it's a pretty worthless number.

You might be interested in reading this thread at TW www.threadwatch.org/node/5677 which predates any comments about BMM by several days I believe.

I'm certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that what happened was a glitch.

If that is the case it was an unfortunate glitch which brought your company and some of your clients under close scrutiny.

There seems to have been some questionable techniques discovered that apparently have been changed now.

I particularly liked a comment by JasonD. You can claim to be a swan, but if you look like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, you are probably a duck rather than a swan.

AS far a PR which again which is meaningless this forum had a PR 5 until it was moved a few weeks ago to the currant URL.

[ihelpyou]

Someone should inform Alexa that they now also tell us who is spamming the search engines. :D I think they might be interested that people actually think this way. LOL

[ihelpyou]

Welcome moo! :hi:

And I certainly don't know you either. :) But thanks for registering!

And yes; That's a very good question as I'm having a very hard time finding phrases that go along with your statement Martin.

[Connie]

Hi Moo and welcome. :hi:

[moo]

Oh, thanks guys. :)


Moo

[WebSavvy]

Must have been a full moon, eh? :lol:

Welcome to the forums "moo" (if that's your REAL name ;))

:hi:

[ihelpyou]

hmm. Your site claims you offer a "bespoke marketing solution" with your services.

http://www.bespokemarketing.co.uk/websitepromotion.html

This tells me you are an affiliate of Bespoke? LOL That is tooo funny. They are infamous for selling:

Email Marketing Software
....Harvest & Send over 15,000 emails every hour.

That's good stuff. :rolleyes:

I wish we all could be like you. :D

[Connie]

No doubt BMM got caught with their pants down.

Now mleeney is trying to repair the damage by finding fault with ihelpyou. An old tactic. Divert attention.

I find it strange he is not defending himself in other forums and blogs that have posted about this. At least as far as I can tell.

I guess he views IHY to be more of a threat.

[Quadrille]

He knows that any serious criticism in certain forums would be deleted, so he's safe.

Mind you, perhaps he has clients who call in here, so he has to try and save face :)

[WebSavvy]

Connie, I don't think this new person (mleeney) is connected to BMM (BigMouthMedia). I believe he's here to defend ICO (itscoldoutside).

Copycatweb posted another thread in this forum with regard to a client (or potential client) of his that has (or had) dealings with itscoldoutside.

Doug made an "open invitation" to itscoloutside, to which they seem to have "accepted", as it were.

[ihelpyou]

You are getting your spammers confused Connie. LOL I know they all seem to look alike. :D

[Connie]

You are getting your spammers confused Connie. LOL I know they all seem to look alike.
Sorry about that. Happens with old age. :D

Thanks Doug and Deb for pointing out the error of my ways. I will try to be a little more careful in the future not to get Spammers mixed up.

[Dan0]

Doug,

The term bespoke (http://www.answers.com/bespoke&r=67) refers to a custom solution.

[ihelpyou]

it doesn't really matter what it refers to though. There are no "custom" solutions to SEO other than search engine spam. That's one thing that is a fact.

[grungee]

One thing I noticed from their client list is that they don't use 301 redirects on their sites nor their home site.

Couple of their clients are
www[dot]rocksofice[dot]com which they did the seo for
www[dot]plata-online[dot]co[dot]uk they host
www[dot]sixteen47[dot]com the designed

They may have got their seo training and tools from www[dot]apexpacific[dot]com

As far as I can tell and I am no expert they are using some sort of flash redirector which has their link in there and shows there spammy keywords to the search engines. I am sure one of the more technical guys here could tell you what they are doing. Actually I think they use hidden text, with miniscule fonts?

www[dot]fitness4u-uk[dot]co[dot]uk/personal_trainer_qualification[dot]html
southern-cross-sales-uk[dot]co[dot]uk/commercial_recovery_vehicle_co[dot]html
they are just two I found quickly

If someone could tell me whether I am wrong or right in my conclusions please I am very curious?

[sytemaker]

Originally posted by mleeney
Look at google we have a PR of 5 (That's Page rank Doug)

Do people actually still think PR (that's Page rank, isn't it mleeney?) is important?

[chrishirst]

Yep Flash redirect + hidden text (css), small text, keyword stuffed anchor text etc etc

Page code grabbed by my scraper from fitness4u


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<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="NetObjects Fusion MX for Windows">
<META NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="personal trainer qualification,fitness training nvq,gp refferal,aerobic instructor training,aerobic training course">
<META NAME="description" CONTENT="Fit future training,course fit future,career fitness leisure,fitness instructor premier training,fitness instructor
qualification,fitness instructor training,become a fitness instructor,personal trainer course,personal trainer qualification,
fitness t">
<TITLE>Future fit personal trainer qualification,fitness training nvq,gp refferal,aerobic instructor training,aerobic training course</TITLE>
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[Irony]

Originally posted by mleeney
We only use accepted methods.

:uplaugh:

[Quadrille]

I like the negative font sizes; he uses negative language too - when he says "I am not a spammer", whack in a negative, that cancels out the 'not' - so the truth comes out.

"Naughty Martin IS a spammer" - but hey, we knew that!

[WebSavvy]

We only use accepted methods.
*cough*

[g1smd]

They must be nuts if they bother to check PR and actually believe what they see in the toolbar...

[Quadrille]

I split the thread - rather than open a two-year old discussion, I gave the new discussion a thread of its own.

Here it is:

Ihelpyou reply from Itscoldoutside (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21521)

[g1smd]

I just love all those <font> tags in the code bloat.

So 1998.

[grungee]

I liked the timed flash that then redirects to whatever page the user is supposed to see.

[thesmokingman]

Hi,
I would like to draw your attention to a thread on another forum (http://www.searchengineforums.com/apps/webmaster.forums/action::thread/thread::1106766109/forum::seo-general/) where a fairly lengthy dicussion occurred with "wibblemaster" and "mleeney"(Martin Leeney).

Martin Leeney tried to have the postings removed and threatened wibblemaster with legal action over the comments.

I apologize for posting a link in advance if it is against policy as I skipped over the T's & C's. It is definately worth a read however and shows that there appears to be no stopping this "reputable" company.

[Quadrille]

Thanks for that - it's a good thread, isn't it?

I was pleased to see that no-one was really frightened of him - or his mis-spelling legal eagle.

Once they start reaching for their briefs, you know that they really want their brown trousers. :rolleyes:

And his silly and repetitive denials here - and the evidence - ensures that searches for Martin Leeney and itscoldoutside will find this thread, too!

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums thesmokingman! :hi:

Thanks for that! Those forums are the ONLY other forums besides us who OUT spammers. All other forums "protect" spammers.

Thanks for the research Chris and grungee!

Google will be very interested in this I'm sure.

[Connie]

Hi thesmokingman and welcome. :hi:

[JohnC]

Hi thesmokingman and welcome to IHY :hi:

This is amazing. reading that other thread all I could think of was "Did TP open offices in the UK?"

The relplies by mleeney in here are precious. They should be framed and hung on the wall, so if I am feeling down I can read them ad get a good laugh to brighten my day.

[WebSavvy]

Oh ... but it's warm at IHY! :cool:

[Jim_Hedger]

Amazing. Why would Mr. McFeely (ooops, his PR {that's public relations folks} department must not have done its job right, I made a mistake in the name...) I mean Mleeney try to argue his way through this? I can see one response to test the waters but surely he must have known that fighting the mods here is almost always a losing game.

Either that or he simply doesn't learn from his own history (thank you mr. smokingman). Nice finds Grungee and Chris!

McFeely, dude... you use spammy techniques. It is as obvious as the code in the middle of your space.

[Blue]

Just checked and colderbytheminute.com is available.

[Quadrille]

Well, we know that Martin Leeney is a spammer; and we now know that Martin Leeney is a liar. (Sorry; but he is!).

That doesn't rule out the worrying possibility that Martin Leeney is an idiot.

I am writing this in the knowledge that his brief is running threats through the spell-checker.

[note to Mr Brown-Trousers, attorney at law; I have no money, so it really isn't worth it, sorry]

[Jim_Hedger]

It is kinda funny and kinda sad how stupid people get over money. I am reminded of Mikkel's response to Jill over at SEW where he basically said - you would be freaked over how much money crap {spam} has produced for me -

The other day at my blog, someone wrote in asking why I didn't just work for myself instead of beating my head against the wall of other people's cyber-problems.

The answer is simple. No amount of money makes abusing the knowledge we hold worth it. SEOs have a heck of a lot of untapped power. If we want to, we can actually alter the results at the world's largest information repositories. Cool eh? That's huge power but with huge power comes huge responsibility. It really is a two way street.

Now, I like a good traffic power accident as much as the next rubber-necking jerk but I can't stand it when people get hurt. McFeely, your tactics and techniques CAN and likely WILL hurt people. You don't need to be another taffic power accident on our shared superhighway. Slow down, learn to drive responsibly. Don't injest booze or mind altering chemicals before getting behind the wheel. Act responsibly.

[WebSavvy]

Originally posted by Blue
Just checked and colderbytheminute.com is available.
LOL @ maybe colddayinhell.com is better suited? :lol:

[JohnC]

Originally posted by savvy1
LOL @ maybe colddayinhell.com is better suited? :lol: How about we start a rumor of a new Google penalty for their clients .. "The Icebox"

[WebSavvy]

LOL @ John. Too funny.

I feel bad for the clients though. It's a shame they didn't find these forums FIRST.

[JohnC]

Agreed .. for sure.

[Blue]

The Icebox ... That's great John!!! :D

[ihelpyou]

That doesn't rule out the worrying possibility that Martin Leeney is an idiot.
Believe me, he he told me directly over the phone that he is not a search engine spammer and follows the se guidelines. He truly believes in his head that as long as his spam page for his clients is "relevant", that it's not spam.

That does classify him as an Idiot. Just like ALL spammers out there who spam because their client's want them to, or who spam as they think a page is relevant, so spam is just dandy to do.

It's the same argument we hear dayinDayout from spammers.

In this buds case; his SEO firm does NOT even tell the clients what they are doing.

But you would think in this day and age of the internet, there is enough info out there about search engine spam that client's looking for a SEO would know there are Good and Evil to choose from, and they would directly ask for ALL code and techniques these spammers might be performing on their websites.

I'm for getting rid of ALL spammers in our industry. I believe in going "to the source" of the problem. It's good to educate people about SEO spammers, but if we just made it tough for them to exist in our industry, that's the main goal.

If not for SEW and the SES conference promoting spammers, we would be much further along in our goal. Giving spammers opportunities to advertise and tout their wares to the general public has "never" been a part of successful industries. Give me one example of conferences you have been a part of that "asked" a spammer (plugin any name you wish according to the industry), to speak at their conference? You can't name one as MOST industries would "never" give them a podium, or the credibility that speaking gives.

[WebSavvy]

Yes, and right before the IceBox there's a little jiggle in Google's waddle ... Big Chill (movie pun :D) --

Following the IceBox there's the DeepFreeze. Lots of begging, crying, pleading ... but Google won't give reinclusion so easy.

They'll have to wait for the BigThaw when all things frigid begin to melt.

Has this thread taken on a "weather spin" now? :confused:

[Dan0]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
it doesn't really matter what it refers to though. There are no "custom" solutions to SEO other than search engine spam. That's one thing that is a fact.
Are you saying that you do the same thing for every client, with the same fees? You put the same content on every site? Target the same keywords? All SEO is custom work, Doug...

Anyway, I was just trying to help you expand your knowledge of the language... there's no need to smear a search engine spammer as an affiliate of email spammers, is there? Shouldn't one be enough?
Originally posted by Blue
Just checked and colderbytheminute.com is available.
ROFL...:cheers:

[ihelpyou]

Fine Dan. Thanks for correcting me. So itscoldoutside is not an affiliate of Bespoke, the email spammer.

Now what?

I'm happy you are correcting my mistake to somehow make out that itscoldoutside is not "that" bad as he's only a search engine spammer.

Trust me; I make many mistakes. I'm glad someone is out there to scrutinize my posts. :)

But again I ask you:

Now what? Is itscoldoutside better now?

I can't say sorry to a search engine spammer as no matter what, he is still a search engine spammer.

[Dan0]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
only a search engine spammer.
Isn't that bad enough?
Trust me; I make many mistakes. I'm glad someone is out there to scrutinize my posts. :)
Making baseless accusations undercuts your credibility. Think about it.

[ihelpyou]

I know there are people out there constantly trying to undercut my credibility Dan. I don't need you to tell me that. :) If you think I really care about what people elsewhere who are "peers" may think about me, you are mistaken. :)

I run entirely on my own and don't need help from people "elsewhere' in this industry.

BTW: How's the conference?

[Dan0]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
BTW: How's the conference?
I was only there for the first day and a half, but what I saw was very good. Tor Crockatt from Miva gave a great presentation in the Search Term Research session where I also present, which will be required reading for my team.

I didn't see anyone teaching spam. I did see a lot of improvement in the content across the board, and I wish I could have stayed for the whole week. People are finally tying business results to best practices, and the industry is growing up.

It's a shame that you choose to sit on the outside, but given your open contempt for your peers, I don't think you're really missed.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Dan0
It's a shame that you choose to sit on the outside, but given your open contempt for your peers, I don't think you're really missed. I think it's your peers that Doug has contempt for, not Best Practices SEOs.

And I doubt Doug minds not being missed by your new pals one iota.

You must get lonely at times, though? Or maybe not?

[ihelpyou]

I didn't see anyone teaching spam.
Great! Good thing Matt Cutts was there to "correct" a speaker who said "cloaking" is an option. Matt said NO.

I guess if that is not teaching spam, then fine.

Yep; Q is very correct Dan. If you think that "group" of back-scratchers and asskissers and spammers is something I would care about, then you are truly mistaken.

And yes; "Many" out there are starting to see what I've seen for along time now. Let's see; maybe 1000 attend that, right? How many are in this industry? My thinking is "your" group is rather small in the overall scheme of things. I also think you are very confused as to where you belong.

[Dan0]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
Great! Good thing Matt Cutts was there to "correct" a speaker who said "cloaking" is an option. Matt said NO.
Yes, Matt and others are there and make a lot of "corrections" especially during Q&A.
Let's see; maybe 1000 attend that, right? How many are in this industry? My thinking is "your" group is rather small in the overall scheme of things. I also think you are very confused as to where you belong.
Actually, Doug, I believe attendance for SES NYC 2006 was over 6,000. The villains you imagine to be such a threat are in fact very very small in the overall scheme of things. A lot has changed since 1999 or whenever you last attended. ;)

[ihelpyou]

Nothing has changed looking at the agenda for day 3.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Dan0
The villains you imagine to be such a threat are in fact very very small in the overall scheme of things. Why are they there at all?

Can you imagine a medical conference with snake oil sellers?

A Science conference with flat earthers?

Open your eyes, Dan0, and smell the twaddle you are peddling. Stop defending these people who have almost ruined your reputation, before they do damage that matters.

Wake Up

[charchar]

Can anyone offer any information on this company as they have ripped me off. Is what they do legal, as when I signed up they guaranteed results, but now they have changed their website and dont offer any guarantees.

Im sure im not the only one they have ripped off, and I have been told to take them to court.

Charlie

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Charlie! :hi:

Ripped you off "how"?

No one can "ever" guarantee anything. What exactly did they guarantee you?

Do you have a contract stating this guarantee?

You would have to contact your lawyer for any legal advice. We don't hand out legal advice in here.

You really should have researched that firm "first" before hiring them. You would have found that they practice search engine spam and would get your site penalized eventually. We already have other threads in here about them.

[charchar]

Yes the contract I signed offered a guaranteed 5 first page positions within 8 weeks or your money back, which obviously never happened. I have taken legal advice and will be taking them to court.

They do not seem to offer this anymore which I find very strange as they claim to have many happy customers.

If I private message my web address could you have a look and see if there is anything untowards on my site, as im trying to gather as much information as possible.

Charlie

[charchar]

also noticed mleeney has posted on this giving himself a 5 star rating.

http://www.ratethatcompany.com/Ratings/ViewRatings.aspx?co=395

[ihelpyou]

5 first page on what engine? What phrases?

If on Google,.... it's almost impossible

If on yahoo or msn... it's possible.

It does depend on the phrases you are talking about.

I'd be worried they have used spam on your site however.

They do not seem to offer this anymore which I find very strange as they claim to have many happy customers.
We all can claim we have happy customers, right? Did you actually call these customers? If not, why not?

[Connie]

Hi charchar and welcome. :hi:

Based on the two other ratings the rating by mleeney looks fishy.

[charchar]

Yes I did contact 2 other companies and they seemed happy with their results, is there anything I can look for on my site which will give me more info.

I was very naive when I signed up with them but am confident I can win the court case as the contract is written very badly.

[Irony]

By a coincidence, just today I got some information about this company, from a source I won't disclose. Seems like they have shifted from cloaking and other nasty on-page tricks to sophisticated link schemes, which are not easy to detect manually. But Google, probably, already knows their typical patterns, and that's why they failed with your site.

Having said that, there's no way to know if they did anything with your website itself, or not. Ethical SEOs usually keep their clients informed about what exactly is being done, at least in general. Spammers usually conceal it.

Feel free to PM me your URL, I'll take a quick look. Who knows... I might spot something :)

[dinamite]

This so called company relies on simple submission.If you look at their domain name itscoldoutside you'll realise that they have just chosen one that no one else has similar of in the UK.Heres another,try going to liverpoolsecurityguards.co.uk ...They are at number one on google search engine because their customers like to search for "security guards liverpool" or "liverpool guards" or "liverpool security" .Get the gist ?
Who is going to type in the search engine "it's cold outside" ?
This company rang me and asked me to do just that,expecting me to be amazed at them being at number one in the rankings.
If I had a domain name gobbledegook.co.uk and asked you to search for gobbledegook I am very sure that it would pop up as near as number one in the rankings for the UK.
They asked for a thousand pounds up front and via a credit card whilst on the phone.I ignored their future calls which amounted to about 10 a day for about 2 weeks until they got really pissed off.
From what I can gather itscoldoutside just want to take your money and run.


This company likes to attract people whom have no knowledge of optimisation whatsoever and are usually desperate for business.
As far is I can gather,they have no secret method and you can call their bluff and demand what you got for your money.They will have to expose their method which will be nothing more than what you could all do for yourselves.

[expresswebmaster]

I find it funny that if you search for "Itscoldoutside" you now get rank 3 a web page with bad press about the company, actually contributed towards by the MD!!!

Oh the hilarity!

[Quadrille]

I've updated the thread titles - so after the next spidering, it'll be Even Better ;)

[expresswebmaster]

lol

[expresswebmaster]

I've got a question for you all, I know very little about SEO, I am aware that links to your website improve your page rank, according to the number of outgoing/incoming links (although maybe thats old hat now!!! I've no idea)

I've got a plan with Itscoldoutside, where I get 1000 links to my site. Now until this week I couldn't see any links to my site in Google, now after deciding to cancel they have appeared.

I've had a look at these links and none of the domains have a page rank at all. In total there are around 74 of them.

Are these links helping me or not?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Quadrille]

"Itscoldoutside" defends themselves in This Thread (http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=223157)

[Quadrille]

Toolbar Page rank is not a reliable measure of a site's value - but in the circumstances, I think it's most unlikely the links have any value at all.

Indeed, if you have links to any of those sites, they could be positively dangerous.

I don't know the detail of this "SEO's" methods, but multiple links from temporarily boosted pages is not unusual; you stop paying, they stop boosting the pages. Of course this "SEO" is such an idiot, it wouldn't surprise me to see links from pages that never, ever had any value.

But if, as part of the work, you placed reciprocal links on your pages, now would be a good time to remove them!

[expresswebmaster]

Thanks Quadrille.

I didn't place any reciprocal links, just paid good money.

I'll continue with the cancellation...

[Connie]

Hi expresswebmaster and welcome. :hi:

[expresswebmaster]

Hi there!

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I found this website by chance, but it seems to be extremely informative.

:)

[Connie]

I found this website by chance, but it seems to be extremely informative.
Glad you found us early on. It's a lot easier to learn things correctly in the beginning, than to have to change your thinking later on. Hope that makes sense.

There are a lot of places that you can read about SEO. Most of those will get you in trouble. There are some places that you can occasionally learn from if you know enough to separate the wheat from the chafe.

At IHY you don't need to separate anything. You will only learn the correct way to do things.

IMHO we have the best SEOs in the industry in this forum. I can say that because I'm not a professional SEO, and I read in a lot of SEO related forums and blogs.

Look forward to your continued participation.

[Blue]

Originally posted by expresswebmaster
Thanks for the warm welcome. Was that a pun? ;)

Welcome to the forums! :hi:

[Dave Hawley]

Me thinks they should keep quite and only appear as spammers than to open their mouth in "defense" and remove all doubt :)

[mleeney]

Hi Doug,

I notice you have ">> We have our "own, inhouse" link popularity department. Getting links on high quality sites is very important. You want visitors coming from other sites who are interested in what you have to offer. These links will not only help you with quality visitors, but will also help you with all the search engines. Getting listed in all the major directories out there is a good first step. We have a list of about 50 "free" to submit to directories that we monitor. We will suggest other "paid" directories you should get listed in as well."

Could you please post a list of the 50 directories that you publish to?


Thanks

Martin

http://www.ihelpyou.com/website-design/details.html

[ihelpyou]

Well sure, we get you into the "relevant" directories. Now why should I post which ones for you? You can research yourself. Quadrille has a list posted:

www.seo2seo.com

I guess I have to reword that little paragraph as we haven't had a "department" for "links" in a few years. Thanks for pointed this out.

And BTW mleeney; You have already called me to say the same thing.

And also BTW to whoever is reading; mleeney IS "itscoldoutside".... the spammer. :D

[ihelpyou]

You should have let things go Spammer:

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21521&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

If you know what's good for you, you should actually close up shop.

Also BTW: We get many, many referrals from Google from someone typing in 'itscoldoutside' in the google search box. I'm guessing this is how you are monitoring this thread? LOL

[mleeney]

Hi Doug,

Why so personal? Please answer the question. And post all these non spam url's here!

I notice you have ">> We have our "own, inhouse" link popularity department. Getting links on high quality sites is very important. You want visitors coming from other sites who are interested in what you have to offer. These links will not only help you with quality visitors, but will also help you with all the search engines. Getting listed in all the major directories out there is a good first step. We have a list of about 50 "free" to submit to directories that we monitor. We will suggest other "paid" directories you should get listed in as well."

Could you please post a list of the 50 directories that you publish to?


Thanks

Martin

http://www.ihelpyou.com/website-design/details.html

[mleeney]

Hi Doug,

I checked this site as your post suggested. I found this as well
Please Note:

[article removed - please do not copy other people's work without permission, whether to make a point or not - MOD]

[ihelpyou]

What?? Are you a lame idiot with NO mind at all? If you think I'm going to give a search engine spammer anything, you gotta be joking, right? Are you insane? How were you brought up anyway? I'm sorry that you didn't learn anything growing up. I'm also sorry you don't abide by the stated search engine guidelines. If you did you would not find your firm on "spammer" lists and at places like this, right?

If you would simply quit spamming the search engines and harming ALL clients, this place would not be "outing" you, right?

Get out of here itscoldoutside. We don't want your kind in here at all. Your firm is a big disgrace to this industry.

And again; No, I am not helping you one bit.

[ihelpyou]

LOL So which part of Quadrille's list don't you approve of?

None of us approve of your firm's business practices. Not a single part of your practices. You spam search engines on behalf of your clients. That's not only bad as you deceive search engines, but it's immoral and unethical as you do it on client websites. Not good stuff bud.

[mleeney]

Hi Doug,

Such a shame you rant and rave about something you clearly know very little about.


I am truly upset that you continue to throw insults at me for no good ethical reason.

You are the Spammer here Doug. If you actually read this whole post it is apparent that it based on nothing of any substance, as you well know.

I would like your opinion on search engine spam though such as ,

Do you think the search engines themselves are responsible for generating spammy results?

And if they are, then why would they want to do that??

[Quadrille]

A spammer is a spammer; and you are a spammer.

That's a fact - if you find it insulting, why not stop spamming.

It ain't rocket science.

And please try to keep on one conversation - all this changing topics and pasting articles makes a dialog impossible.

Not that we particularly want to talk to you. But we do try to answer your points, when they make sense.

[ihelpyou]

Such a shame you rant and rave about something you clearly know very little about.
This coming from a guy who doesn't read the search engine guidelines and has no clue how to build a website? This is coming from a guy who spits in the face of all search engines? You must truly be living in another world bud. I agree with Q, you are constantly changing subjects and posting so much garbage that I will be closing this thread soon until we re-open it later on. Your type will never learn.

Do you think the search engines themselves are responsible for generating spammy results?
That is classic stuff but not original. Your buddy TopPile said the very same thing about two years ago. His firm went out of business because they spammed the search engines just like you do. Many spammers say the exact same thing. If you think you are being cute, you're not.

[james.908@btinternet]

I too failed to check out itscoldoutside.
I fully expect to litigate with them in the near future.
This so called company 'lost' 25 e-mailed enquiries to my company over the last weekend.
When I questioned this I was invited to 'take my business elsewhere'.
I not laughing now but let's see who's laughing last. He who laughs last, laughs longest. If you're reading this above the Indian Restaurant in Altrincham, see you soon guys.

[WebSavvy]

Hi James, and welcome to IHY :hi:

Wish it was under better circumstances that you found this place. I'm going to merge this thread with the other threads so we can keep them together in a group.

[jkf]

Hi everyone,

As per messages i've put on other forums i'd like to warn people about the bad experience i've had with itscoldoutside.

I just wanted to post a note to any companies who have or are being contacted by itscoldoutside.

I have recently used this company and wanted to warn others about the service they offer.

I was "sold" 500 back links, at a time when i was desperate to get my companies website more traffic and when i hadn't done my research. Its going to turn out to be an expensive mistake.

I am currently in dispute with ICO about the fact they haven't actaully delivered the 500 links they guaranteed my payments against, but now i've come to claim my money back all kinds excuses are being used.

According them ICO they have evidence that they have delivered 500 links, but aren't prepared or willing to show me these links or any hard evidence to suggest they have been in place.

I was told to contact the customer services manager, it took me 13 phone calls and two emails before i could finally speak or get any contact with him.

We are considering legal action again this company. I would adivse anyone who is contacted by itscoldoutside or considering using them to think again! I've seen no improvement in my listing despite there "hard sell comments" and actually feel i've probably done my website more harm than good by using this company.

Please keep away from this UK based company.

[ihelpyou]

Welcome! :hi:

It's a shame. It's very sad that this company has not learned a damn thing over the years. It's also sad that people like you are stripped from your money just because you did not research thoroughly. Oh sure; it's partly your fault for being scammed by them without researching first, but it's also largely the fault of OUR industry for allowing firms like this to virtually fly under the radar for so many years of hurting websites. Not many places actually talk about firms and how they go about their business. That is what is so sad about the industry.

[jkf]

Thanks...

And yes it is a shame but i've learned a valuable lesson at least.

I just hope others don't make the same mistakes we have made and read feedback like this (like i should of done).

Companies like this shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, and i intend to fight them as far as possible to get my money back.

[Mark King]

Firstly I would like to say hello as this is my first post on this forum which I found as I was doing some research on itscoldoutside,

I own a company that has in the last five months launched its e-commerce web site http://www.bearing-king.co.uk within that time I have spent some £7000 with Google adwords that is working great for me but would love to get the cost down a little, I have done this by adding a conversation tool on my adwords so I can filter out the clicks that cost me money & now I am working hard on my own back links for the site, because my site is still only new & I also to this industry of getting your site to the top of Google or even on the second or third page, when itscoldoutside called me for the second time I listened to what they had to say but as I am a one man band at the moment fell for it as I was very busy also it sounded good to me 500 back links that would take me to the top of Google & after spending £7000 on adwords what had £199 + vat up front then £100 + vat a month for 12 weeks got to lose, little did I know what a bad company I was dealing with until I just put in itscoldoutside in the Google search & came up with loads of people complaining, anyway to cut a long story short on Monday just gone I got in touch with them to ask about what I had read this had alarm bells ringing like mad & not wanting to put my company or e-commerce sites future in their hands cancelled the contract that I now had to pay in full & have had a county court judgment in the post today, In my eyes ICO are in breach of the contract if they are working as scammers & I only anticipated what damage they could cause to my sites future before it actually happened & after spending a massive amount of money with Google did not want blacklisting by them,

I now have to fight my case against ICO & not knowing much about this topic will be going in blind, does anyone have any evidence that I could use against ICO as I do not know what I am talking about ?

Thanks

Mark:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

[Mel]

Its been a long time since I was here but since I found this thread doing some research on ICO, I thought I might add some comments.

ICO are still in business, they have added not only more spamming but some scamming too.

Based on information I have gathered this group of spammers appear to have more than 10,000 domains under their control and they use some pretty insidious methods in their "work", but make no mistake about it they are not incompetent, I found their trail by reverse engineering the SEO of a couple of sites that were firmly entrenched in #1 Google positions for some very useful commercial terms.

I wonder if Google will ever take them down its so apparent what they're doing yet they still carry on spamming and scamming.

If anyone is in need of additional information PM me, but please don't spend your hard earned dollars or £ with ICO - give it to charity or spend it on drink first.

[Dan0]

I could use a drink right about now.

[WebSavvy]

Hi Mel! :hi:

[ihelpyou]

:hi: Mel and Dan!

I've received calls from numerous people who were researching ICO. They thanked this place for having this info out there. :)

[Mel]

HI Savvy:hi:

[Comeran]

What a post! I just read it all up and can't believe years later this is still going!

How are these guys in any type of business?!?!?! Their name is ruined and any client doing research would find so many complaints within the first few SERPS.....

Amazing!

[NotOnMyShift]

ok so im no expert, a friend of mine was contacted by this company and asked me to do a little digging...

using www.backlinkwatch(DOT)com to see where www.itscoldoutside(DOT)com gets its links from threw up some interesting information.

853 backlinks to their site. Mostly with anchor text of "Web site design uk".

Ok i thought, they design websites, and nothing wrong with adding a little link at the bottom saying who designed it.

Until you start to notice the odd ones, like

http://www.print2canvas(DOT)net/relatedsites.html

where you are greeted with a big grey square. "View Source" anyone?

The source shows link upon link, hidden from the main page, with everything from Russian Brides and Herbal Healthcare to Casino Supplies.

Others such as

http://www.stemik(DOT)co.uk/sites.htm

Display a nice little "Under Construction" message. "View Source" anyone?

Once again we find the source code full of hundreds of links from every type of site under the rainbow.


Now i only checked 7 or 8 of these pages, all with hidden links. Out of 853 god knows how many there are! Or if the sites listed are even aware they are involved.

Here are a few more anyway (just 'view source'), or see for yourself at www.backlinkwatch(DOT)com and search for www.itscoldoutside(DOT)com

http://www.manchesterplastics(DOT)com/relatedsites.html
http://www.m-enable(DOT)com/oldsite/relatedsites.html
http://www.farthingstone(DOT)co.uk/relatedsites.html
http://caricks(DOT)com/relatedsites.html

[ihelpyou]

Welcome! :hi:

Yep; these are old tricks that some firms still do. Of course they work for awhile, but I really doubt the firms are getting anything out of it now.

[NotOnMyShift]

Hi Doug, thanks.

Is this not what you experts call "blackhat"?

How can they still get away with it? I warned my friend anyway about all the bad press they have, not just on here but all over it seems.

I wonder if all those sites listed are aware they have those pages sat on their sites, and if it affects their rankings? Or at least if they would get in trouble if google found those pages? Because if thats how they are guaranteeing 500 links in a month then its not so good. Im sure my friend wouldnt want his site linked to a Russian Brides website!

You are right anyway, talk about giving the industry a bad name! Im sure there are plenty of good guys out there, but some people will still just jump for a quick fix.

[ihelpyou]

Oh sure; blackhat stuff works until it's found out. :) Penalties can be a bitch when found out.