Another Useless (probably harmful) SEO program

[JohnC]

Who is “the master Search Engine Optimization (SEO) specialist” Joe Buckley? He claims to have “owned of one of the most successful Internet marketing companies in the world”, yet he wont tell us the name of that company. Could it be TP? They used to make claims just like that. No, we know who that is. Anyway this self-professed “expert” is targeting unsuspecting website owners with his suite of useless and possibly dangerous SEO tools.

Do not buy his program at www.seoyourself.com

A new member asked about this program earlier today. I had seen it around (he is heavily advertising using AdWords, something he says his program will help you avoid.) so I thought I would take a deeper look and offer some of my personal thoughts and opinions. Some of the claims he makes are just outrageous. He is praying on the lack of information the average webmaster has about SEO, hyping outdated techniques and carefully keeping himself hidden from view. There is so much crap on that page I don’t even know where to begin.

Lets start with credibility. First thing to look for is contact information.. None. Then re-read the first paragraph of this post.. Nothing to back him up there either. My 10 year old son could have built that page and no one would know the difference. Since he uses ClickBank as his payment processor, you will never get to talk to him if you have billing issues, ClickBank handles all that as well. He does have a bunch of “testimonials”. Here’s the status of the people who write so highly of the program …

www.viciouscycleworks.us - Server Not Found
Timeshare-B-Gone - No Site listed (404 from the page found on Google)
www.laundryboys.com - Server Not found
www.countrynook.com - Parked domain with ads
www.camphoneybelle.com - Server Not Found
Some guy named Craig - No Site Listed
www.audibleimages.net - Look a site!
www.hamstown.com - Couldn't match HostHeader

And the final nail in the credibility coffin is the Whois information on the domain. It is illegal in the US to put falsified information in your whois data, however here’s the basic info for seoyourself.com:

Domain For Sale
Domain For Sale
Domain For Sale, CA 00000
US
555-1212

Not only is it obviously false, if the domain is For Sale, good luck getting those 3x monthly updates as soon as it is sold.

So we know his credibility is non-existent. So now let’s look at the information he is trying to pass off as knowledge to unsuspecting webmasters. Lets look at a few of these …

Master SEO Joe says … “All you really need to do is outrank your competition!”
Wrong. You can have number one ranking for every keyword on the planet and if the surfers do not convert, all that traffic is wasted. Real SEOs know that the name of the game is ROI (something a search indicated he didn’t even mention on his site)

Master SEO Joe says … “These powerful tools will save you time and aggravation!”
Wrong. They will most likely cost you additional time and money not to mention a ton of aggravation. Following the information he spouts is a sure path to an unpleasant experience with the search engines. Here are his 16 points:[list=1]
Automated Search Engine Submissions. It’s against the terms and conditions of all major search engines. You don’t even need to submit to engines if you are listed in a few quality directories. Not to mention he boasts 800,000 engines and directories. Talk about Red flags.
Web Site Link Popularity Checker. Available free all over the internet.
Search Engine Ranking Reports. Most likely also against the TOC of most major engines .. Oh .. and I am betting it does not work for all 800,000 sites he submitted too.. hehe
Key Word Density Analyzer. Again, available free all over the internet.
Spider Page Analyzer. Again, available free all over the internet.
HTML Validator. Why not go to the source .. http://validator.w3.org/
Doorway Page Generator. This Will Get you Banned. This is a known Spamming technique and you will pay the price if you use it.
Keyword Builder. Again, available free all over the internet.
Web Page Meta Tag Creator. Again, available free all over the internet. Should be done by hand as each page of your site should have different ones. Does not count much towards rankings any more.
Statistical Reports Generator. This is the same thing as #3 or not related at all
Automatic FTP Uploader. Nothing to do with SEO
Auto Search Engine Submission Scheduling. You don’t need to submit, let alone schedule your submissions.
Search Engine Database Auto-Updater. LOL unless the domain sells ..
Automatic Program Updater. Ditto
User Engines. That is if you can find any more past his 800,000 .. What they are not included?
Keyword Search Tool. Otherwise known as a search engine.
[/list=1]Master SEO Joe says … “Don't listen to people who tell you its takes years of experience to get a top search engine ranking.This is pure B.S. - the engines constantly change so past experience does NOT play any role in getting a top ranking today.”
Wrong. This statement is “Pure B.S.” This is more hype to target webmasters who want to find a quick answer. SEO does change all the time, but unless you have the foundation of knowledge to understand those changes they mean nothing to you. If you don’t understand the change, how are you going to react to it?

Master SEO Joe says …“Using my easy to use SEOYourself software you to can become an SEO expert and start charging others to optimize their websites.”
Right. If you want to rip off your customers and build a reputation as a spammer. I think this does shed some additional light on where Master SEO Joe got his expertise though.

Master SEO Joe says … “Watch your rankings climb and your website EXPLODE!”
Right. Explode!, yep use his tool and that is exactly what will happed to your site. Explode into a million little pieces never to be found by anyone

I don’t even have the time to go into how wrong he is about the “SEO Myths”. It is obvious this guy does not have any idea what he is talking about. Then there are the free bonuses, a “ Search Engine Optimization Tutorial” from the guy whose program does it all for you and 50 website templates… LOL

I can not stress enough that my opinion is that using this tool most likely do more harm that good to your website. I say this with years of quantifiable experience at my back.

[Connie]

John great post. I blogged about seoyourself.com but not in the detail that you did. Hopefully my visitors will read this thread.

Something that I don't think either of us covered. This expert does not know enough to do a 301 redirect from domain.com to www.domain.com.

He has a pop up asking for e-mail address but I did not see a privacy statement on the site.

The page reminds me of a Corey Rudl or Ken Envoy page.

Obliviously this so called expert is targeting newbies.

Give me your $200 bucks and make it all back with $49.75 for each new customer you refer.

This self proclaimed expert is nothing more than a Spammer, Scammer.

[ihelpyou]

lol amazing stuff.

Isn't this "criminal" behavior?

The kicker is why do sites out there accept advertising dollars from this guy? To me; ANY site accepting money from this guy for advertising his crap is just as much a criminal as he is.

[JohnC]

Thanks to this post (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/false-whois-data/) over on Matt Cutts blog, their false whois data has been reported to Internic.

Internic gives follow-up reports... Stay tuned.

[g1smd]

Maybe they would like to Beta Test that software over at S.E.W.?


Now, that would make interesting reading....

[WebSavvy]

Maybe they would like to Beta Test that software over at S.E.W.?
ROTFLMAO! :uplaugh:

[ihelpyou]

http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/003403.html

I find it VERY appalling that Danny Sullivan claims SES speakers do NOT promote themselves, only to read that they sure do indeed "promote" themselves when they speak. They also stand up their and promote their buddies as well. Despicable.

SEO Toolbox? LOL What a joke.

Actually, Bruce Clay was the only one who does not use "rank check" tools or "link" stuff tools. Good for Bruce!

I know this really isn't on topic for this thread, but SES does NOT deserve a new thread. I read Barry's "coverage" on it. From reading, it sure does not seem like anything new at all. It's all stuff we discuss in here daily. It also shows many of us that Spammers are allowed to promote themselves, and spammers even talk about spam and their spammy tools as well.

Barry even "left out" writing about one speaker as he did not agree with them. Gee; Wonder what that guy spoke about that Barry could not write about? LOL I think I know.

Totally disgusting.

[Irony]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
Actually, Bruce Clay was the only one who does not use "rank check" tools or "link" stuff tools. Good for Bruce!

Not exactly, Doug. Bruce doesn't use his own rank checker on a daily basis. :)

Looks like some SEOs can't survive a single day without running a rank report :D They must be having a lot of fun during major updates, like Bigdaddy.

:cheers:

[ihelpyou]

Checking ranks is bogus stuff. Think about it; I can check a rank at Google manually from my end. A client can check the "same" keyword phrase on their end and see an entirely different position. What good does that do? Is there any benefit at all? I just don't get it.

How about this jim boykin character and his buddy tools? It's totally bogus stuff.

How about this?
http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/003419.html

- Managing too many keywords at once
-- Prioritize
-- What are your profit margins
-- Give main keywords enough attention
huh? They are saying you can be targeting too many keyword phrases? What's that all about? :lol:

[e.eastman]

Your arguments against trusting Joe Buckley were very compelling, but who can you trust now-a-days?

How can I know that you don't merely have an ax to grind?

I'm not being argumentative. I sincerely want to know how to evaluate all the claims that are out there.

Do you have any advice?

[Quadrille]

There's no sure answer; my advice is to read around; eventually you'll find a forum where you feel comfortable among people who have a similar approach to yours.

When looking at particular issues, you'll see people like JohnC, who started this thread with a carefully researched, well argued case, that you can check for yourself.

Granted, a lot of SEO is speculation and 'best guess' - no-one knows what Google really thinks - but you'll soon see the difference between the ones who are being straight, and the BS.

You'll also find that you already know more than some - I'm a technical dunce, and have never claimed otherwise, and others have their limitations.

But it's all about relationships, knowing people, and learning who to trust.

All good fun, in fact ;)

[ihelpyou]

Welcome! :hi:

If you 'really' think about things, the stuff this guy BS's about is being sold by him for "peanuts". Do you really think that for a few bucks for some software that you can "explode" in the search engines?

Think about it; if you believe that kind of hype, then you must disbelieve that an industry exists out there who offer services to help website owners do well in the search engines and also offer the services to help with obtaining a good ROI for websites. You also have to wonder why there are forums like "these" you found that give advice to the same website owners.

If you really think about, if we could simply buy some software for a few bucks, there would be no need for any of the above anymore, right?

You really do get what you pay for. His BS is rebutted in almost every way if you simply read the Google guidelines for webmasters, and the guidelines for SEO's on the Google website. You can find similar pages at Yahoo and MSN as well.

If you really believe this seoyourself fellow, then you must also disbelieve what the search engines say themselves, right?

[Connie]

Hi e.Eastman and welcome. :hi:

Personally I have nothing against Joe Buckley other than his software is crap.can tell you a lot about people like Joe from experience.

The only one who will benefit if you buy it is Joe Buckley.

Now you can read in here, or go buy the magic software. The choice is yours and either way non of makes a dime.

Who do you trust? I would say 3rd parties that have nothing to gain one way or another.

You can get advice at IHY for free if you want it that would cost thousands of dollars if you hired a SEO.

So you can invest a little time at IHY reading and asking questions for free or you can buy some **** software and waste your money.

The choice is yours. Most of us have wasted a little money. Tried this and that to learn there is no software that will make you money, unless you sell it.

[Jim_Hedger]

Responstability
A loose definition might read: Actions or decisions of a responsible nature that lead to greater stability in one's life or community.

--
Welcome to IHY e.eastman,

As Quad sort of said, the only clear answer to the question, "who can I trust" is found in your gut. Be warned... There are a lot of scams out there run by scammers trying to separate the desperate from their money. There are a lot of webmasters who are desperate to get high search engine placements.

The crew at IHY might argue and throw ideas back and forth but we tend to agree on one thing unanimously. Scamming Internet users is desperately wrong. I dashed off a piece on this subject yesterday.

Responstablility in Writing and SEO (http://news.stepforth.com/blog/2006/03/responstability-in-writing-and-seo.php)

The highly active mods and super-mods here try hard to provide honest, good advice. They also try hard to expose scammers, following the belief that once exposed, the scammer will either go away or be forced to change their practices. They might not be right 100% of the time (though they are far more often than not) but, in my experience at any rate, they are passionate and honest people who just want to make this a better business sector.

[e.eastman]

Thanks, everyone, for you welcome and your kind words. Does anyone have an opinion of Tom Antion?

[ihelpyou]

Never heard of him so I did a google for him. Found his site and immediately received a nice popup window to "subscribe", of which I did not ask for that popup.

He's another type "marketing guru". Why are you so keen on these types? If you are trying to find a quick fix to all of this internet stuff, I'm afraid it takes lots of hard work and dedication online and with your website.

[JohnC]

Welcome e.eastman ... :hi:

Sorry I didnt see your earlier post until now.

To answer your question about an "Ax to grind", I do have an ax to grind, but not with SEO Master Joe specifically. But with him and all those like him who try to take advantage of new or lesser informed webmasters and site owners. I think most of us here are of the opinion that these types of people and programs should be exposed as the useless garbage they are.

As for Tom Antion, like Doug, I have never heard of him and his site seems to promote him as a "Professional Entertainer and Speaker", not an SEO expert. His latest publication is about "Electronic Marketing" this could be anything from backlit displays ads in fast food joints to TV. I am not sure I would even talk to him about SEO based on his website.

[e.eastman]

I'm not "hung up" on these guys. I got introduced to this whole subject from hearing a speech he gave. Now I realize I'm in the very lowest of entry levels, and am working hard to do my due dilligence. You guys are being very helpful in my education, for which I'm grateful. Are you all webmasters for large companies?

[ihelpyou]

and am working hard to do my due dilligence
Very good! You are going in the right direction. :)

Some members in here are webmasters for larger companies, and some are the owner's of small firms/sites. I think most of us got online and immediately found these marketing type gurus who exist to take our money, but we quickly realized they were not the answer. :)

[e.eastman]

I've visited all your sites, by the way. I don't have a site of my own yet. When I do, I'll make it available.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/false-whois-data/

BTW: Read the very last post in there by "Gloria". She has it RIGHT ON the money. Those spammers in that thread are all for the hiding of their whois and hiding behind some kind of "privacy" crap online, but when it comes to their own visitors filling out their online forms,.... that's a different story. It's funny they think it's perfectly okay for people to give FALSE whois information on their domain, but at the same damn time, they insist on visitors giving them their TRUE identities.

Bunch of hypocrites, huh? I'd say so.

[JohnC]

Interesting timing Doug .. On Monday I got a followup email from the InterNIC Whois Data Problem Reports System.

It seems www.seoyourself.com has indeed updated their Whois info and now can be traced to a number of interesting websites including ...

http://www.buildtraffic.com/

[ihelpyou]

oh, so contrary to what members in Matt's blog posted, the Internic report system does work? Interesting.

I would "never" buy something from a website that did not have a phone or a "real" address listed somewhere. How "anyone" could buy from a site that wants to be invisible is waaay beyond my comprehension.