LinkWorth - Another Spammer

[Just Wondering]

This site: www linkworth com

Is spamming the world sending out emails about not finding them in the index for specific key words.

One of my long term clients who has been in the top for his area for many years recieved the email and forwarded it to me because he knows how much I hate stuff like this:
Hello,

My name is Craig Waugh and I am an Account Executive with LinkWorth linkworth.***. I found your website while doing a Google search for "Our Keyword" through a Pay-per-click Ad. Did you know that you only stand to capture clicks from a MAXIMUM of 6% of searchers with a pay-per-click Ad? Yet with a top 5 natural listing, you stand to capture 80% of those searchers? (According to a study performed by internationally acclaimed Marketing Firm Enquiro. The results of this study can be found at http://www.datadial.***/online-marketing/searchEngines.aspx)

I can't find you anywhere in the top 100 natural listings for that keyword! You NEED my help. I boost my clients to the top of the natural listings for their target keywords with GREAT success through effective Link Building campaigns.

Do you want to start capturing the attention of those 94% (or more) of visitors you're missing?

We will do a complete evaluation for you, showing you where you are within the search engines, & make a recommendation FREE-OF-CHARGE. There is no cost & no long term commitment for you. Thanks for clicking our link above & I look forward to speaking with you soon.



Email me or call my direct line. 214-440-3909

Thanks, Craig



****DISCLAIMER****



All statistical data provided in this email is based on an initial research of your website and the search engines. Statistical data on any search engine can change at any given time so information provided may not be exact at time of reading. All information provided is based on manual research and no automated queries were performed. There were also no clicking of any pay per click ads, banner ads or any other type of marketing that would require a charge against your existing marketing campaigns. This electronic message is personal to you and is in no way a result of any type of bulk marketing or email list.


Got to love that disclaimer. He just sent email spam then says it wasn't spam.

[ihelpyou]

I think Craig needs a few hundred phone calls. He also needs to get out of this industry.

[ihelpyou]

I linked them up. I want Craigie to know we are not happy. He needs to bow out of this industry if he thinks spamming people is ethical.

[Connie]

Thanks for posting. I seldom get those kinds of e-mail. Gives me something else to write about in helping to spread the word about Spammers.

They are low life people, trying to bilk the innocent.

[Connie]

A sad thing is many forums would not allow you to name the Company. I do not see how people can really be protected from crap like this without naming the Company.

[Just Wondering]

A sad thing is many forums would not allow you to name the Company.

That's what I love about this forum! The fact that you can out them. I was reading another forum talking about the blackmail Google scam but they would not name the company. Finally someone linked to their blog and I found the name.

I don't do SEO as a main course of business. So, I stay pretty close with the several accounts I perform the service for and am always sending them the latest scams to be on the watch for.

With all the scammers and spammers out there, I think being pre-emptive is necessary these days.

Speaking of spam, I really get a kick out these sometimes:
http://www.waronspam.com/
http://www.scamorama.com/

[Connie]

I just wrote about LinkWorth on my blog. If anyone is interested just click on my WWW link.

[Jim_Hedger]

... turn a quiet traffic stream into an energetic and busy information super highway

That's a funny line. It sounds like it comes from one of Clinton's writers.

[Irony]

... or from that BS generator...

[avaid]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
I linked them up. I want Craigie to know we are not happy. He needs to bow out of this industry if he thinks spamming people is ethical.


You know I found your forum through a blog about linkworth spamming. While I can't honestly claim to know how they contact people, I can contest the fact I was contacted by one of their reps with an email somewhat similar to the one you guys are pledging as spam above.

I did a little research on them before responding and found nothing but positive remarks about them. Then I responded to the rep that emailed me and she instantly contacted me. Our company wound up signing up with them and have been a customer for almost a year now. They've been very helpful to our company and I think unless you have dealings with them, I don't understand how you could have such horrible remarks like "bow out of this industry".

Trust me, I hate spam as much as the next person, but IMHO, this is far from spam. If you define spam, it is an electronic message sent in bulk to a list of emails. I think what you referenced is a sales email, much like a cold call. And how many spams do you get with full names and direct phone numbers? Let me show you a spam I just received and I'm not sure you can compare the two:

----------------------------------

Time i$ the 0nIy thing y0u can’t change. But knowing the time with Replica Classic watches can change your life for better.

zhtt.t2zrg7z1h0z9fbbryttrybbb.clunistkb.com

Have you ever seen h0w the tw1ns l00k 1ike? Take a look at
a re@l Rolex and a Repl1c@ Classic$ Rolex.
If you want a decent watch, get a replica approach. Replica Classics watches are just for you.
goz.cl0ah80k0jiayucszcuszcuu.moscowak.com

Time is ticking away, let it tick away with Rep1ic@ C1as$ic watches.

---------------------------------------

Anyhow, I felt like I owed them my remarks based on the help they have provided our company. Who knows if you will be democratic enough to leave a positive testimonial up, but I think your comments are completely wrong.

[WebSavvy]

Any unsolicited email is SPAM.

I don't care if they do have full names and contact info. It's still spam.

Let me share some spam examples my directory (WebSavvy) gets all the time.

Dear Sirs,

I came across your website doing some research in Google. Please list us on your links page. We have already listed you on ours.

Signed
Contact Name
Contact Website

That's spam.

If they'd actually visited my site they'd have noted that it's a web directory. How often do you have to "exchange links" with web directories to be listed on their "links page?"

Another example:

Dear Sirs,

We represent xyz company and have noted that your site fails to rank in the top 10 for it's most important keywords. We can help your site get the rankings you deserve.

Contact Name
Contact Website

That's not only SPAM ... but it's BS too! Our most important keyword term is: family safe directory and we rank very well for that term (in the top 10) on all 3 majors.

In both of those two examples they share a common theme:

1. I didn't ask for the email.
2. I wasn't in need of their services.
3. The email address they've sent it to is listed in my whois records only and is the ONLY place they could have gotten the email address from.

Now, considering that trolling through whois records looking for email address is ILLEGAL, let's put that aside for a moment, shall we?

What legitimate business that wants to be taken seriously and respected, would stoop to levels so low that they must illegally collect and harvest private email addresses from whois records?

Oh I know which companies. The ones who're so on the up-and-up that they've included their Contact Name and Contact Details!

NOT!

It takes more to establish credibility than just adding one's contact information to unsolicited email regardless of its nature or intent.

Now, here's the really funny part. The email address that these bozo's are spamming is nospam[at]websavvy.cc

How's that for irony?

[ihelpyou]

Welcome avaid! :hi:

LOL Are you telling me a firm sent you email spam and you bought from them? :green: That tells me the firm is VERY desparate to have to resort to that kind of spam email for OUR industry.

How about this; what will you think about things if your website is penalized as a result of using this firm? Let me tell ya, that is very possible.

[ihelpyou]

The most common product, along with our flagship product, is the traditional text link ad. This is a simple keyword used as the anchor text (text actually linked), the hyperlink which directs the user to your website and a description explaining what the ad is referring to. These text ads are placed on as many partner websites as possible in the home page, an internal page or even on every page of the partner website. These links will draw traffic from this partner website along with building link popularity. Read more on text link ads...
That tells you the firm has no clue. Do you like the idea of your link on many "FRONT" pages of websites? How about all those links you are required to have on your front page? That's spam.

Look up the definition of "link farm" as that is exactly what that SEO firm has going on. Don't come crying to us when you are penalized for being a part of a big link farm.

[Just Wondering]

Sorry avaid,

They never visited the site they sent the email to. Had they actually done a few searches, they would of seen my clients site is in the top 5 for quite a few terms including the one they put in the email.

That email was unsolicited.

The definition of email spam is email being sent unsolicited to others.

Doug is right on the money with link farm thing. They are spammers in more ways than one.

[Blue]

And ... they are no longer sailing "under the radar."

Welcome to the forums avaid!!! :hi:

Perhaps, now that you are here, you can read up to find out the "whitehat" method of generating long term successful ROI.

[lworth]

Well I appreciate the kind words you guys have for our company. There is one thing called "freedom of speech" and there is another thing called "libel and slander". If you have a problem with our company, either kindly ask us to not email you anymore, or take it up with the proper authorities. Labeling our trademarked name with an improper term like "spammer", can be brought up in the court of law, and we will be more than happy to defend our company and our name.

I will kindly ask that you remove all libel comments regarding our company name and it's representatives. There will be no more requests or comments, only legal action. We have put a lot of money into our company and if you don't like it fine. We do like our company and we will spend whatever money necessary to preserve it's name and reputation.

This goes for the spam-whacker.com site as well.

And you may consider yourself "safe" from legal action, however, when it is an isolated event, it is tougher to win. When there is a constant pattern of this behavior, it will be an open and shut case!

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/3530

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/1871

http://www.seobook.com/archives/000609.shtml

http://www.v7n.com/forums/web-directory-issues/16664-webatlas-banned-google.html

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/709

http://www.searchengineforums.com/apps/searchengine.forums/forum::directories/thread::2201/action::thread

I will allow you 24 hours to remove our company name and representatives name from your site before moving forward. The current time is 2:45pm CST. I will check back at 3pm CST tomorrow. I hope you believe my threats because I am 100% serious.

Best Regards....LinKWorth

[bigDugan]

Originally posted by lworth
I will allow you 24 hours to remove our company name and representatives name from your site before moving forward. The current time is 2:45pm CST. I will check back at 3pm CST tomorrow. I hope you believe my threats because I am 100% serious.

Best Regards....LinKWorthYou'll probably want to contact the owners of the following 18,000+ pages that reference Linkworth Spam (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linkworth+spam) too. 8)

[Just Wondering]

Hello lworth.

Welcome to the forums!

Perhaps your representative who sent the email should read:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm

Pay close attention to:

1. No method to Opt out.
2. Subject matter was false (claimed not in listing for specific phrase yet they are in all datacenters on Google in top 5)
3. Harvested the email address.
4. Must be clearly labled as advertisement.

I don't read anywhere in there that there is a special exclusion for linksworth for sending out unsolicited email.

So, your saying you allow your representatives to violate federal law when it comes to email spam? Which by the way according to federal guidelines for the definition of spam the email received met.

[ihelpyou]

I'm thinking you have nothing to stand on. Thanks for that link bigdugan and just wondering. You have to prove your email is not spam in order to win. Anything posted on forums is protected by feedom of speech unless it's false. You need to prove to your peers that your email is not spam. According to the FTC, it is spam. Looks like it's spam according to "many" places on the internet from the looks of that link posted in here. :)

[JohnC]

It amazes me how ignorant some people are ...

First Mr. lworth, I would welcome you, but I don’t feel it would be sincere. Now, you should look up the difference between "libel and slander" only one could even possibly apply.

Second, either one is only provable if the allegations are false .. Are you prepared to prove you are not spamming ... I doubt you could.

Third, don’t try and place the burden of proof on the accused, it’s your law suit you would have to prove your point. Good Luck.

Third, it's my personal opinion, You are an idiot, oh.. and a spammer.

[Just Wondering]

Third, it's my personal opinion, You are an idiot, oh.. and a spammer.

:green:

OK, now I have to clean my screen after spitting soda all over it when I read that!

[Connie]

Just checked and Linkworth has posted the same thing in my blog. I'll repeat my comments here at spam-whackers as well.

Linkworth, I would be more inclined to to make a retraction if you had denied being a Spammer. You did not do that. Instead you said

If you have a problem with our company, either kindly ask us to not email you anymore

Why should anyone have to ask you not to e-mail them anymore?

Even someone who bought your services, admitted they had received an unsolicited e-mail from your firm.

You should not be sending out unsolicited e-mail touting your wares in the first place.

Doug, me, or anyone else has not tarnished the reputation of your company. You have done that by sending out Spam (unsolicited) e-mail.

If your going to engage in Spam then you should expect to be treated like a Spammer.

I would have at least expected you to deny sending the Spam. You didn't.

At least Traffic Power had that much sense.

[ihelpyou]

LOL

Now we all have to reply to email spam saying we don't wish to receive email spam anymore? That's is truly hilarious.... and totally pathetic.

In other words, anyone is free to send out "commercial" email "without" it being opt-in? We simply have to "ask" you to not send us email spam? How many words come to mind about that ridiculous way of thinking?

I strongly suggest you give those same reasons to the FTC to see what they have to say.

[ihelpyou]

The FTC maintains a consumer complaint database of violations of the laws that the FTC enforces. Consumers can submit complaints online at www.ftc.gov and forward unwanted commercial email to the FTC at spam@uce.gov.
hey just wondering; Please forward your email spam to that address of the FTC.

[Just Wondering]

hey just wondering; Please forward your email spam to that address of the FTC.

Done!!:D

[Connie]

I did add a little bit to what I posted here. Bottom line
I guess the next step is to hear from your attorneys.

Just Wondering good for you.

[ihelpyou]

His first step should have been a private email to any "owners" involved. He didn't do that. Not that it would have done any good.

He cannot prove anything in this thread as "false" at all.

[g1smd]

>> If you have a problem with our company, either kindly ask us to not email you anymore, or take it up with the proper authorities. <<

It is not up to the recipient to contact every spammer and ask them not to send them spam, it is up to the reputable company to not send spam at all...

And, you really don't want to be hearing from the authorities. They'll close you down in an instant.

[Connie]

Unfortunately in the US anyone can sue anybody, for about anything. There are always sleaze bag lawyers that will take the case on a percentage.

What's that latest suit against Google because a site lost their PR and rankings. ? Totally ridiculous.

Lawyers have turned this country into a sue happy nation.

People like Linkworth take advantage of that. They think they will put the fear of God into someone when they say you will hear from my attorney.

Linkworth if you had posted here and on my blog that your Company did not send out the unsolicited e-mail, I would have been more than happy to work with you.

Instead you confirmed the fact that your Company sends out unsolicited e-mail (Spam).

I would have at least made some edits to my original post so that everything was a question rather than a statement of fact.

You come in here and on my Blog with threats. As far as I'm concerned go ahead and carry out you threats.

No need to wait until tomorrow for me. Hearing from your attorney will not change a thing for me. So you might as well go ahead and spend the money and have him contact me.

I'm a "Hardheaded Ol MO Hillbilly". Mo is the "Show Me State". So show me what you have. that will give me more to write about so I'm looking forward to hearing from your Attorney.

[ihelpyou]

Here's another interesting thought; Note this is a "thought". It's not stated as a fact at all.
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
hmm. LW has a business model where they "buy and sell" links for websites. Are these "bought" and "sold" links designated as such on website's that show these "paid" links? If they are not, and I don't think so at all..... almost a fact; how would this pass muster regarding the FTC as well? Isn't it deceiving every visitor to a website who happens to be showing these "paid" links at the bottom of their pages? I think it is deceiving.

Just like commercial email needs to be designated as such, so should any link that is "paid for" on websites. They should be designated as "sponsors" or "paid advertising", or something like that.

[Blue]

... I think good 'ol Paddy might be looking for a roommate ... :rolleyes:

[Connie]

All Linkworth has done at this point is infuriate me more. LinkWorth didn't like my Post (http://www.spam-whackers.com/blog/2006/03/23/linkworth-didnt-like-my-post/)

So Linkworth I'm looking forward to hearing from your attorney.

[WebSavvy]

So ... if we don't want spam we're supposed to contact the spammer and tell them not to send us any more spam? :lol:

What a joke.

[ihelpyou]

avaid wrote:
If you define spam, it is an electronic message sent in bulk to a list of emails.
I just noticed that tidbit of a statement. I'm afraid you had better read up on the Federal Trade Commission's website to see how "they" define commercial email spam. What do you think?

I also think you had better have a chat with your company people on all the links you now have at the bottom of your front page that lead to "other" websites. I'm telling you this so you don't find yourself penalized later by all the search engines. It can work "right now", but what are you going to do when the se's actually notice those links that are there strictly for the search engines?

If you really want to learn about best practices in this industry avaid, I suggest you do lots of reading in here. Since there is no way we can view your website, there is no way to help you directly as for some odd reason you choose to not show your website in your profile. I'd love to see just what this firm has done for your search engine success. Pray tell. :)

[avaid]

wow. ok, well I appreciate all of your extremely positive remarks. you all sound like a bunch of 3rd graders. is this a grown up forum? It sure doesn't sound like it. I don't blame those guys for coming over here guns blazing. You guys act like idiots and reading those links they put proves this point. Seems this is the black sheep of the seo market.

chief whitehat expert? Seems you get in more trouble than all spammers combined out there. I first thought this was a pretty interesting forum but you guys are way over the top. Just look at your remarks to me because I said I am a customer of theirs. Immature.

As for the lawsuit...you might want to rethink your stubborness. I work for an attorney firm in Chicago and we deal with libel/slander litigations all the time. Your thought of "message forums are freedom of speech" is what most of the defendants think. Since I have been here, there has been a minimum of a dozen cases I can remember. ALL were won by the plaintiff and 5 of them involved defamation of character on message forums.

Shoot, based on your immature remarks to me, I might see if our firm will step up and do the work for linkworth free of charge. After all, their "misleading remarks" as you claim, did not mislead us. They provided EXACTLY what they said.

I went ahead and made a copy of this entire thread. I hope you not only lose, but have fun spending the 10's of thousands it costs just to defend yourself. Be on the lookout for the initial "Cease and Desist" letters for each and every one acting out.

Oh, and did I also mention that by you simply using their trademarked name on your site without their permission, you are also violating another law? Time to make a phone call.

[avaid]

one more thing to fill you in on where the law is concerned. It does not matter if they send spam or if it is a simple commercial electronic message, by law, you do not have the right to turn around and break a law yourself. You are performing libel and slander on your own. You are what attorney's call, "slim pickins". Which basically means, "you think you know it all because you read a few things on the net, but once you are thrown up on the stand, they will tear you down to just 'slim pickins'."

consider your options. Be hard headed and suffer what might come out of this, or hit the delete key and it's over. Stop being a vigilante naming people in libel and slander. Eventually, if not this time, you will get sued.

Linkworth can easily run through your forum, contact all of these companies you decide to name and get an entire team of companies. Each case will be punishable by law.

That's all I have to say. I don't know why I've helped this much.

[ihelpyou]

hmm It seems you don't know the difference either and post both libel and slander. It has to be one or other or none at all. It can't be both.

Also hmm. I stated my opinions about your statement on the definition of email spam. I'm entitled to state those opinions just as you stated your opinion, right? So what do you do avaid? You come back here guns blazing as well. That shows total naivety and a total lack of knowledge about all things search engine and email. And for someone with no website in your profile, a strong need to be defensive as well. Go figure?

[avaid]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
hmm It seems you don't know the difference either and post both libel and slander. It has to be one or other or none at all. It can't be both.


Again..."slim pickins" .... I'm perfectly understand what is what. You can be brought up on both. Just because you wrote it doesn't mean you are only committing libel. How about you call up your attorney and read this entire thread to him. Tell us all what he says. Or are you an expert in that field as well.

Do you honestly think I would name our company? If I had their blessing, I would, but then we'd have to really get involved. Your pattern speaks for itself.

And yes I'm blazing. Read what you all said to me. Am I supposed to take that? I was sincere. I was then attacked.

[ihelpyou]

I'm suggesting you leave now. This is not about you, but you seem to want it to become about you, right? Why is that? What stake do you have in all of this anyway? You register in here the day after this thread started. ...hmm

[avaid]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
I'm suggesting you leave now. This is not about you, but you seem to want it to become about you, right? Why is that? What stake do you have in all of this anyway?


No stake at all. Not yet. I made my opinion and was then attacked. You guys are ridiculous and going through your many posts I see it is normalcy for you to do this.

You should really take a step back and ask what is wrong with you and your people here.

And to respond to the genius that said they needed to contact all the other people, I looked at that link and funny, none of those sites called their company anything like this one does. That post was much like me saying,

ihelpyou is a spammer (http://www.google.com/search?q=ihelpyou+spam)

of course, I'm sure you'll edit or delete this.

[ihelpyou]

huh? LOL

I'm asking you to leave now. You have an agenda. You did when you registered. Leave now please.

[avaid]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
huh? LOL

I'm asking you to leave now. You have an agenda. You did when you registered. Leave now please.

heh...you can have your opinion, libel or slander, but other people that do not agree cannot?

now that is LOL

you haven't heard the last of me

[ihelpyou]

Your opinions have been left in tact. NO edits in this place which is very much unlike other places. How long do you think your crap would have lasted in other forums? Not long.

Please leave.

Oh btw; what you are essentially saying is that all email spammers should be free and clear to do as they please, right? NO ONE any place should write one thing about any of them, right? Is that your stance? LOL

[Irony]

Avaid, since you volunteered to defend spammers and scammers in court for free, wait a bit. I'm getting some new stuff ready for you.

Another company this time.

Though I'm a bit outside your jurisdiction... sorry about this :)

[avaid]

you guys are so stuck on the wrong thing. I never said I was "for" spam. I did say I was "against" libel and also "against" slander.

I'm not so sure leaving all of these posts will boast well for your business. Then again, I question how someone could honestly run a business that spends every waking minute tearing people apart.

IRONY....in case you can't read, let me help you with something I said in my first post. I HATE SPAM AS MUCH AS THE NEXT PERSON!!

It's obvious there is commercial emails that you guys do not like, and then there is obvious bulk spam. We do not see eye to eye on the commercial aspect.

I'm wasting my time. Well have fun slamming me, linkworth, the next person that emails you and all the other poor chaps that have crossed your path. This time next year, when you are about 25 to 35 thousand dollars in debt, I will drop on by and say, "I TOLD YOU SO!!" Good bye

[Irony]

Originally posted by avaid
I HATE SPAM AS MUCH AS THE NEXT PERSON!!

You've just proven it :rolleyes:

[ihelpyou]

What you are saying is that no one can post anything bad, even if it's a good opinion?

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-advice-clean-house-before-press-releases/

Matt Cutts can't "out" search engine spammers either, right? If this world was a place where all spammers of all kinds were free to do as they please, what the heck kind of industry do we have? How would you like it if everyone sent all of your clients email that was misleading and false as to what you have helped them with? Would you be happy about it? Wouldn't you think it's pure spam as well? Wasn't it "unsolicited"? Or did your client ask the firm sending the email to "please send me email"? :)

[ihelpyou]

This is for the readers of this thread;

http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/seo.html

That's right from the Google pages. FYI

[Just Wondering]

avaid,

If your a lawyer as you claim, not saying you are not but after all this is the Internet, then you would know that your opinion of what Email spam is has no bearing and the definition falls on what is clearly defined by the Law in the FTC ruling and approved by Congress.

Here is a refresher of their definition:

The final Rule sets forth criteria for determining the primary purpose of various kinds of e-mail messages. These criteria include:

• For e-mail messages that contain only the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (“commercial content”), the primary purpose of the message will be deemed to be commercial;


• For e-mail messages that contain both commercial content and “transactional or relationship” content as set forth in the Act’s definition of “transactional or relationship message” and in the final Rule, the primary purpose of the message will be deemed to be commercial if either: 1) a recipient reasonably interpreting the subject line of the e-mail would likely conclude that the message contains commercial content; or 2) the e-mail’s “transactional or relationship” content does not appear in whole or substantial part at the beginning of the body of the message;


• For e-mail messages that contain both commercial content and content that is neither “commercial” nor “transactional or relationship,” the primary purpose of the message will be deemed to be commercial if either: 1) a recipient reasonably interpreting the subject line of the message would likely conclude that the message contains commercial content; or 2) a recipient reasonably interpreting the body of the message would likely conclude that the primary purpose of the message is commercial. Factors relevant to this interpretation include the placement of commercial content in whole or in substantial part at the beginning of the body of the message; the proportion of the message dedicated to commercial content; and how color, graphics, type size, and style are used to highlight commercial content; and


• for e-mail messages that contain only “transactional or relationship” content, the message will be deemed to have a “transactional or relationship” primary


Now, I’m no lawyer but the email sent by linkworth to my client clearly meets the above definition of being a commercial message and therefore is subject to the rules outlined in the Can Spam Act.

Normally, I just laugh at this type of stuff and just delete it. But the email linkworth sent clearly misled the recipient by stating they were not in the top listing for specific term when in fact they are #4 across all the datacenters and have been for years thus proving it was a bulk email. To top it off, that last little statement about the email being personal is supposed give the impression that it is not spam. Sorry, it was bulk email sent out to a person who did not request it and there was no method to opt out nor did the email properly identify itself as being an advertisement in the subject line so the normal spam catchers could of deleted it. Had it been properly labeled, this thread would of never happened because it would of never been read.

I’ve said nothing to slander/libel anybody. I stated a fact. Linkworth sent my client spam email as email spam is defined by the FTC. As suggested, I’ve gone ahead and forwarded the email to SPAM@UCE.GOV. I’m sure linkworth will get the opportunity to explain to the Government why they feel they are exempt from the 2003 Can Spam Act.

[JohnC]

Is it 3pm CST yet ? .. I have to get my popcorn popped and a nice cold drink ready to watch the show .. :D

[avaid]

"just wondering" ....never said I was a lawyer. I said I work for a firm. If I was a lawyer I wouldn't be wasting my time here.

JohnC...you seem very smart. Take horse pills every day to overshadow your "size issues" ?

ihelpyou....you are not very smart either. Everything you reference, none of it purposely hurts another company. The mattcutts site gives constructive criticism. You slam people. BIG difference.

I think you guys are more into attacking than really considering the fact you might be wrong from time to time. It's obvious "just wondering" felt threatened because another company contacted a client of theirs. They stated he/she wasn't doing what they are paying him/her for, so he/she goes into defense mode.

And what in the world is wrong with looking for business? I think anyone that says they send "bulk" email is presumptuous and wrong. If you can prove this is the case, you have a reason to post, but this is completely a few self proclaimed "experts", that seem to be attacking another company in their industry. It really shows a bit of jealousy more than anything else.

I did a little looking around on ihelpyou.com and i'm surprised that an "expert" wouldn't have a stronger site. Maybe you can use one of these spammers, being this one, netsmartz or kinderstart........or any of the other places you guys attack. Seems they help people rather than hurt them.

You guys know you are wrong and continuing to drag this out only shows your lack of maturity. I feel I've stooped to your level to even respond and I'm not happy for have doing so. This must be the only way this forum or company, along with it's minions gets any sort of notoriety.

Oh wait, I guess Doug is well known for his horrible speech at SES that resulted in everyone walking out and him receiving a ZERO score. Hey....I just call it like I read it. That's what you guys do, right?

[ihelpyou]

LOL You are an asswipe with an agenda. Now we certainly know that this is a "FACT". Look up the definition of "trolling".

You are now officially banned. Put that in your butt and smoke it awhile.

[Irony]

Avaid, we've seen a lot of people like you here. Why do you all sound so similar to each other? Always, when you are short of better arguments, you start saying we don't do what we are paid for... something you REALLY can't prove :)

"Spammers help people"... oh yes! Traffic Power, for example.

I remember people posting in forums, desperate and totally lost, because of that help. Don't think I'll ever forget their grief.

And Traffic Power threatened to sue all those people, too....

[JohnC]

Ahh.. Doug... I was just starting to have fun with him and now you have gone and banned him .. :(

I wonder if his bosses over at the law firm know he posted their URL in this little debate .. :)

By the way avaid, I know you cant respond but its usually those who have the "issues" who think they are an insult. I am secure enough with myself to laugh at your childish attempt to insult me. LOL

[ihelpyou]

This thread has run it's course and is now closed. :)

[ihelpyou]

I guess not:

www.linkworth.com/blog

Since they decided to defame to the extreme, and could not possibly prove their statements at all, I'm opening this thread up again. I also changed the title of the thread to include their company name who is a huge email spammer, and also runs a "link farm" that hurts anyone who uses them.

Please note I or my firm did "not" start this little spat.

I must say however; my firm always enjoys the publicity. Spammers just can't stand the thought of people outing them as spammers. Wonder why? :)

[WebSavvy]

Doug, I hope you've made a screen capture of that blog just in case he goes back in later and changes it in a last ditch effort to save his own butt.

He pulled out the Lawyer card and you called his bluff.

That's why he's now resorted to this Internet smear campaign designed to cause injury to your reputation and business and is inviting others to join in his cause making it a "community effort" to cause injury and loss of business.

I sure wouldn't want to be in Linkworth's shoes right now. I've seen your Lawyers in action Doug ... and, it isn't "pretty" :D

If any of what Linkworth posted on his blog was true, do we honestly believe that Matt Cutts (one of the head guys at Google) would link to IHY from his blog citing it as one of the top 3 SEO forums on the Internet?

If any of what Linkworth posted on his blog was true, do we honestly believe that the Sony Corp. would have hired your firm to consult for them?

[ihelpyou]

Yep. They don't know who they are dealing with. I'll let them suffer whatever consequences come up.

Funny thing however:

avaid; who mysteriously registered in here as a new member, did so the "day after" this thread was started. Also funny that he posted some lawyer website from Illinois claiming he worked for them. Also funny that his IP happens to be noticed that he resides in "TEXAS". At least the computer he used to write his posts in here is in Texas. :) Also funny that the owner of LinkWorth and the business lives in Carrolton, Texas!

Coincidence?

I think not. :green:

It's amazing the lengths that spammers will go to try their very best to get at this place for "outing" them as spammers.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking the member in here as "avaid" is also the very same ass who just posted in the LinkWorth blog, right? :)

[WebSavvy]

hmmm ... seems that the FTC also consider Unsolicited Commercial Email to be SPAM (oh and gee, I'm pretty sure they're not 'jealous' or have 'size issues' :rolleyes: )


If you have a specific complaint about unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam), use the form below. You can forward spam directly to the Commission at SPAM@UCE.GOV without using the complaint form.


FTC Consumer Complaint Form (https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=)

However, the FTC and our Government could be wrong in their definition of SPAM. Perhaps we might be able to persuade Linkworth and his Lawyers to define it for them?

I sure hope avaid is reading this, considering he "[claims] to work for a Lawyer" and doesn't regard UCE as "SPAM."

[WebSavvy]

You can report certain kinds of spam directly to the appropriate government agency (http://cc.uoregon.edu/cnews/fall2002/spamreport.html)

[Connie]

Dam I'm pissed and jealous. The basterd threatened me on my blog and did not have enough courtesy to mention my blog. Doug you got all the attention.

On another forum avaden posted as the owner of LinkWorth. Pretty close to avaid .
http://www.v7n.***/forums/seo-forum/15196-linkworth-com-2.html

I think lworth or what ever his name was is the same person as avaid, who is the same person avaden. Especially based on the IPs you have Doug. The IP for lworth who posted in my blog is 207.7.251.194. I can't tell much aboutthe IP from the Arin Whois. Usually I can.

Really would like to hear what he would say about his identity at this point.

[WebSavvy]

Linkworth is a "Texas" based company. From the Attorney General of Texas (http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/spam.shtml) website, please note the following:

State and Federal Anti-Spam Laws
Under the CAN-SPAM Act, unsolicited e-mail advertisements must have a functioning return e-mail address, a valid subject line indicating that it is an advertisement, the legitimate physical address of the mailer and a way for people to opt-out of future mailings.

The Act makes it a misdemeanor to intentionally send spam with false header information. In certain circumstances violators face up to five years in jail. It is also now a criminal offense to send spam containing sexually oriented material that is not properly identified in the subject line.

Just Wondering, did the UCE you were sent also include any of the following (which are required according to Texas Law where this company resides):

[list=1]
The Linkworth company owner's physical address.
Valid subject matter indicating that is was an advertisement.
Method of providing an opt-out from future emails.
A functioning return email address.
Correct header information.
[/list=1]

If not, then you also have legal recourse as well.

[ihelpyou]

yeah Connie; that's the guy.

http://www.v7n.com/forums/seo-forum/15196-linkworth-com.html

Read the thread from the beginning. This guy and his bogus Link buying service is always defending his stuff it seems. He also states in that thread he "always" post as "hidden" on most forums and never says who he is or what his service is. Sounds familiar. :)

I'm tellin ya right now; ALL link buying and selling sites have a short lifespan, and ya better believe it. The search engines can only get better out rooting out all the sites who are using those services, and ALL paid links will not be worth a Nickel real soon.

[WebSavvy]

Originally posted by avaid
JohnC...you seem very smart. Take horse pills every day to overshadow your "size issues" ?
Why is it that the men whom are the ones that suffer from sexual insecurity and incompetence, are the first ones to make reference to another man's genital endowment when they're confronted by someone that's intellectually superior to them?

John, you are a true gentleman and have handled his insults with great class.

If it were me, I'd probably have asked him where he gained the knowledge about "horse pills" and followed by asking him, if they worked for him. :D

[Connie]

If it were me, I'd probably have asked him where he gained the knowledge about "horse pills" and followed by asking him, if they worked for him.
:floor:
At my age I don't worry about things like that.

[JohnC]

Originally posted by savvy1
John, you are a true gentleman and have handled his insults with great class.LOL ... Thanks Deb.

I didnt even consider that tripe an insult. I have been insulted by much better men than he .. :D

You are very correct, its usually a very "small" man that resorts to that type of "belittlement".

[WebSavvy]

Originally posted by JohnC
You are very correct, its usually a very "small" man that resorts to that type of "belittlement".
Yes, and oddly enough the Professionals are recommending "link therapy" for the Internet age with regard to men suffering from IES (inadequate equipment syndrome) ... whatever that's worth.

[Anthony Parsons]

Well, that was a pretty funny read.

[Quadrille]

This always happens!

I go away for a week and spammer linkworth spammer - or some similar type - comes in here complaining about the truth.

What is it with these people? They spout all this semi-legal mumbo-jumbo, but miss the obvious.

If It's True, It Ain't Libel

And, of course, it's never slander on the web (check any dictionary).

Don't these spammers ever bother to find out what spam actually is? Cheez ....

But what really bugs me, is that I've missed all the fun ...

Doug, has the lawyer been in touch yet?

Thought not. Spam AND hot air from spammer linkworth spammer.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by avaid
I work for an attorney firm in Chicago and we deal with libel/slander litigations all the time. Your thought of "message forums are freedom of speech" is what most of the defendants think. Since I have been here, there has been a minimum of a dozen cases I can remember. ALL were won by the plaintiff and 5 of them involved defamation of character on message forums. Was this a lie - or is there really a law firm in Chicago that specializes in libel, and yet does not know what libel is? Poor Chicago ...

... What a ***** that guy is ('scuse my French).

(NB - not libel. Because that's true, too!).

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by savvy1
That's why he's now resorted to this Internet smear campaign designed to cause injury to your reputation and business and is inviting others to join in his cause making it a "community effort" to cause injury and loss of business.He's not doing well - the 'usual suspects' will always join in, but who cares? No-one that matters. Even seobook has only managed to get three of his threadtwisters to join in - and none of them has anything original to say.

And any insult from those kind of people is all kudos to Doug; once the scum show they are scared, there's another good reason to respect Doug.

[ihelpyou]

The facts are that even all SEO spammers out there know that what Linkworth posted on his bloggy is "false" and IS certainly "defamation of libel"..

[ihelpyou]

Definition:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/faq.cgi

[ihelpyou]

Hey Q; you might have missed this post a few pages back:
avaid; who mysteriously registered in here as a new member, did so the "day after" this thread was started. Also funny that he posted some lawyer website from Illinois claiming he worked for them. Also funny that his IP happens to be noticed that he resides in "TEXAS". At least the computer he used to write his posts in here is in Texas. Also funny that the owner of LinkWorth and the business lives in Carrolton, Texas!

Coincidence?

I think not. :green:

It's amazing the lengths that spammers will go to try their very best to get at this place for "outing" them as spammers.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking the member in here as "avaid" is also the very same ass who just posted in the LinkWorth blog, right? :)

[Quadrille]

Saw that; I gave the idiot the benefit of the doubt - idiot rather than liar. I could be wrong, though :D

Incidentally, spammer linkworth spammer is now denying he ever threatened a lawsuit - on his blog, he rants at length, including "It also appears someone claimed to be us threatening a lawsuit, which is kind of funny. ... Ever hear the saying, “ANY publicity is GOOD publicity”? Well thank you for the free publicity. "

So he thinks being labelled a spammer is good? Well, duh!

And yet, further down his slug, sorry, blog, he says "If Douggie wishes to accept a truce, he can contact us directly."

Who on this planet would ask a spammer for a truce?

The interest this guy has raised by his multiple-identity-crisis has guaranteed he will get exactly what he has asked for: "ANY publicity". How long before he realises the difference between that and GOOD publicity is anyone's guess.

I reckon it'll take him a while to cotton on to that one!

[ihelpyou]

Another fact:

The member in here that claimed he was LinkWorth has an IP out of Dallas, TX.

Guess what? Linkworth is based in Carrolton, TX, which is a stone's throw away from Dallas. :D avaid also has a IP from Texas. None of this is a coincidence. :)

[Quadrille]

Funny how you never see them in the same courtroom at the same time :D

[JohnC]

Welcome back Q .. :hi:

Sorry you missed all the fun. :)

[WebSavvy]

From linkworth's blog:
Also, the person defending us, posted some great url’s to show this clown’s true colors, so read and enjoy:
avaid was the only one here defending linkworth, and he never posted any URLs.

lworth claimed to be the "owner" of the company, and he did post URLs (the same ones which he now posts on his blog and credits to avaid) :lol:

Oh, he's one clever man. :p

[Irony]

LOL.

Can't keep track of his personalities, eh? Has been working hard, and is very tired now.

Don't mess with IHY, unless you are tough :D

[JohnC]

I was reading Doug's link above and found this interesting little tid bit .. Question: What is trade libel?

Answer: Trade libel is defamation against the goods or services of a company or business. For example, saying that you found a severed finger in a particular company's chili (if it isn't true).

Along with the ordinary elements of a defamation claim, (see What are the elements of a defamation claim?) the person suing must prove money damages.

Defenses include 1) that the statement was true; 2) that the statement was opinion, not fact; and 3) that the plaintiff did not suffer monetary damage. I am guessing that calling a company "Spammers" (this is about LinkWorth, not a person) would fall under this. I would love to see them have to prove monetary damage. It might not fit, but if it did ...

"Your honor, since we were outed as spammers, my conversion ratio in now down to less than 20 per million emails sent. We used to be much closer to 30."

[ihelpyou]

LOL

Yes; the spam email they sent is spam by the definition of spam email. The post he made in his blog about IHY is false and defaming. I'd love him to have to prove that my firm are spammers like he wrote. I'd say IHY has a great case for monetary damages incurred. Our lawyer is checking things out.

[ihelpyou]

A statement by Jill Whalen; yeah, you might know her unfortunately. Her time in her present position in this industry is very limited however. Here is her statement on TW:
It's about time that someone sued, Doug. He's been waiting for it to happen, I'm sure, but it never does. (I'm sure he wants the publicity it would bring.)

We can only hope that Linkworth actually follows through with it, even if it does give him publicity. But I doubt they will. It's just too much work these days.

[added]Reading their blog post, it looks like they're not threatening a law suit after all. Oh well.
If anyone had a doubt she doesn't defend spammers, that should eliminate all doubt you have. Her HR forums have a rule to NEVER out spammers as Jill Whalen is a baby, and her members know it.

Hey Jill; you may want to know that many of your mods and members don't like that rule at all. Oh yeah; as it makes you seem like you are certainly protecting spammers and "harming" your members who do not get warned of firms who spam. Did you ever think about that? You should.

I feel sorry for many over at that place. Quite a few of them are really good people. Seeing her buddy up to spammers at TW and claiming to be a whitehat SEO is truly pathetic stuff. And now; the statement of her's defending spammers. Hey Jill; why don't you state the very same thing in "your" forums? Are you worried if you did? Go ahead.

Mods and members in here don't stay here because of what my firm can do for them. They stay here because they are people who actually "take stands" on something. We don't like people who play both sides of the fence, never knowing what side they are on at any given time. That's twaddle, and it shows weakness.

[ihelpyou]

BTW; As I do when kudos are in order, Anthony Parsons runs a forum and also will "out" spammers:

http://seo.anthonyparsons.com/forum/thread1580.html?highlight=linkworth

That thread happens to be outing LinkWorth as well. Whenever I see another forums taking a stand, a big kudos to you is in order! :cheers:

The SEF forums is the only other forums I know of who will out spammers.

highrankings
searchenginewatch
webmasterworld
etc

are forums who protect spammers and their friends. Well, not sure about webmasterworld anymore as they block the major ISP's in the US from viewing them.

[Anthony Parsons]

Yer, thanks Doug. All I can say is, they piss me off just as much as the next person.

[WebSavvy]

Firstly, what kind of person would wish a law suit on another?
Oh wait, never mind ... I know what kind of person. :rolleyes:
... you may want to know that many of your mods and members don't like that rule at all.
Funny, she had no qualms in bending her rule when it came to having a mile long thread about TrafficPower or the one ripping Rockynate apart. Nope. Both of those were A-OK.

Funny, the very same "behavior" she's hoping you get sued for, is also behavior she too has been and is, guilty of.

Wouldn't it be ironic if TrafficPower or Rockynate decided to sue her?

The blade cuts both ways baby.

[Irony]

It's about time that someone sued, Doug. He's been waiting for it to happen, I'm sure, but it never does. (I'm sure he wants the publicity it would bring.)

We can only hope that Linkworth actually follows through with it, even if it does give him publicity. But I doubt they will. It's just too much work these days.

OMG! I wonder if Jill read OUR thread at all.

But anyway, whatever remained of my respect for that person, just went down the :toilet:

[kinomuto]

But anyway, whatever remained of my respect for that person, just went down the

Actually my respect for Jill has been steadily increasing over the past year.

She seems to have developed a very well rounded understanding of marketing, and moved away from the kind of judgmental black/white calls which put me off this forum.


- Nick Wilsdon (aka Kino).

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by kinomuto
She ... moved away from the kind of judgmental black/white calls which put me off this forum.You have a point there.

She certainly has a major problem distinguishing between black and white.

Not sure why that is something to celebrate, but that's a matter of choice, I guess.

[ihelpyou]

Yes Nick, I read your post in that TW thread as well. I don't think we all really care what your opinion is. :)

Yep; and that's the big problem in this industry as a whole; people cannot take a stand on ethics at all. They wish to be all things to all people. Even politicians know they can't be all things to all people, so that makes our industry full of people worse than politicians. That's a nice thought, huh? This place is full of people who DO take a stand and don't straddle fences. Black is black. How can it be another color as well?

How can anyone be an "educator" for new website owners and SEO's if they constantly blur the vision of what a black and white hat are? How can they be both and then say they teach? That's pathetic stuff.

JW can continue to do as she does. No problem from me. She shouldn't be spouting off her mouth about me however as I don't take to her mouthy crap anymore. This place gave her great exposure for a couple of years until she decided to be sneaky and back-stabbing to launch her forums. This place defended her when she was "attacked" by the SEF forums waaaay back when. That's how she got started over here and on forums in general. what did she do to thank us? She back-stabbed this place with two-faced crap.

Her time is limited.

[kinomuto]

How can anyone be an "educator" for new website owners and SEO's if they constantly blur the vision of what a black and white hat are? How can they be both and then say they teach?

Because the reality of online marketing is that you deal with gray areas on a daily basis? White/black are extremes, by taking either of those positions you ignore the vast area of knowledge/practice in between. I don't choose to limit myself in that way but I'm certainly keeping close to my own ethos.

Yes Nick, I read your post in that TW thread as well. I don't think we all really care what your opinion is.

No problem Doug, thanks for reading. We love having you as a regular.

[Quadrille]

Interesting that rather than correct JW's rewriting of that history in the same threadwatch discussion, kinomuto chooses to come here and proclaim his steadily increasing respect for her; but the reasons are not too mysterious.

Toward the end of her play-acting here (no, she was not always disagreeing with Doug), kinomuto was proud to state "We don't condone spam or unethical SEO practices here" - so the pair have really walked hand-in-hand into the twilight.

And it's well known that colour differentiation gets more difficult as you approach the Dark Side.

Just as it is a joy to see people reach their full potential, it's sad to see others throw it all away.

[kinomuto]

gets more difficult as you approach the Dark Side.

Really, you guys have to stop watching Star Wars...

kinomuto was proud to state "We don't condone spam or unethical SEO practices here"

Like I said, I have my own ethos which hasn't significantly changed in 5 years of professional SEO.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by kinomuto
I have my own ethos which hasn't significantly changed in 5 years of professional SEO. Except that now you do condone spam and unethical practice.

A small, but some would say significant change.

[kinomuto]

kinomuto chooses to come here and proclaim his steadily increasing respect for her; but the reasons are not too mysterious.

...so the pair have really walked hand-in-hand into the twilight.


I'd also tone this stuff down Quadrille. I'm not sure how my wife and Jill's husband would take that. You know how easily these rumors start in our circles...

[Quadrille]

Maybe you should have thought about that before your Knight In Shining Armour act?

:rolleyes:

[ihelpyou]

I'm also tired of people in this industry saying they are "Professional" but then hang out with spammers and scratch their backs and applaud them.

A contradiction? oh yeah.

What other industry out there condones people who cheat the system? The SEM industry is the only one I know of.

[kinomuto]

Maybe you should have thought about that before your Knight In Shining Armour act?

It's ok Quadrille, it was sarcasm. I don't really think my wife is about to serve divorce papers.

Yes sorry Doug - i do have colored friends.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by kinomuto
I don't really think my wife is about to serve divorce papers. That's all you know ...

It's OK, kinomuto, I was joking. Sometimes I hang a bell on the end of my pointy hat, just to entertain visiting spammers' friends.

[Blue]

Originally posted by kinomuto
Because the reality of online marketing is that you deal with gray areas on a daily basis? ... So keeping within the context of this thread, kinomuto, is the sending of unsolicited commercial email a gray area in your opinion?

[ihelpyou]

The sending of unsolicited commercial email is condoned by those who send it by their own thoughts of "it's a PPC customer" so it's perfectly fine to offer them my SEO services.

Or; "all websites with email addresses posted are fair game for our commercial email offers".

Those are the mindsets of email spammers. Those are the only two mindsets of email spammers. What kind of nutty thinking is that? Do the recipients of these email offers actually tell this SEO that it's just dandy to send them offers before they send them? The can spam act clearly states that commercial offers should be designated as such in the "subject" of the email, and all offers should have a "workable" and "REAL" opt-out link. What is so hard to understand about this?

We have some people out there that don't give a hoot about the sending of spam, but instead, they blast this place for outing the spammers. Again; how nutty and how much of a "lunatic" do these people have to be? Astounding.

[Moth]

Firstly, let me state unequivocally that I am against email spam - with no shades of gray accepted...so please don't infer otherwise about me in your sure-to-follow negativities.

I think you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest. And, I feel the tone of this forum is way too heavy on sarcasm and name-calling towards posters.

I have come here in the past for camaraderie and knowledge, but I don't expect to be coming back...leaves too much unpleasant aftertaste.
:barf+:

[ihelpyou]

lol You registered over one year ago and made 4 posts in one day. Why are you posting now? If you don't like it, don't read, right? Your buddies post elsewhere. You say you don't condone spam, but yet you would rather protect a spammer than out them, right? That's what you just said. There are places like that where people hang with each other. You may go there to read. We don't protect a spammer in here, whether it's email or search engine spam. We believe in warning new people to this industry.

Thanks for stopping by. :)

[Blue]

Originally posted by Moth
Firstly, let me state unequivocally that I am against email spam - with no shades of gray accepted...so please don't infer otherwise about me in your sure-to-follow negativities.

I think you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest. And, I feel the tone of this forum is way too heavy on sarcasm and name-calling towards posters.

I have come here in the past for camaraderie and knowledge, but I don't expect to be coming back...leaves too much unpleasant aftertaste.
:barf+: Hey Moth, no negatives here, except when warranted. :)

You are of course entitled to your opinion.

However, I would challenge you to deny the fact that in nearly five years of operation, these forums have provided countless thousands with the help they are seeking.

On the subject of controversy, we will most certainly do our best to continue creating as much of it as possible, again, when warranted. Is controversy a bad thing? Not if it acheives it's goal of helping the innocent from being scammed and spammed, just so some lowlife slimeball can make a buck.

We will continue to put the word out that we are taking a stand against thiose that prey upon the innocent. Bringing to light those that hide in the dark is one of our main objectives.

It takes a strong stomach and an iron will to fight the good fight, especially when the odds are stacked against you.

C-Ya!!!

[ihelpyou]

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17385&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

It appears you were welcomed as well. If you noticed back then, we outed spammers. We still do. We haven't changed our stance one iota since the beginning. We dislike spammers and friends of spammers. I'm not sure how much more clear we can be about our stance? If you are not a spammer or protector of them, we like you.

[Irony]

Originally posted by Moth
I think you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest.

Here we go again... can't you see that this place receives enough interest? Can't you see how fast we grow?

Oh yes... how can you see it? For a person with your frequency of posting it's not an easy task.

Once again. The only purpose why we create all this controversy is to keep our industry a bit cleaner... just a bit. Not for publicity. Not for "interest". We've got enough of it. People come here for help - more and more every day - and receive it!

I don't expect to be crying a lot because you aren't going to come back. Honestly.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Moth
I think you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest. And, I feel the tone of this forum is way too heavy on sarcasm and name-calling towards posters.1. Outing is a central part of what IHY is, was when you joined, and always will be.

2. Too heavy? I'm the rudest person here by a long way - and even I am very careful to whom I wield the sarcasm and name-calling. The recipients are few, in a small proportion of threads. Are you saying these spammers friends, spammers and trolls don't deserve a good roasting? You may be right; but they'll always get one here.I have come here in the past for camaraderie and knowledgeNo, you haven't. Camaraderie is simply not possible for a lurker; nowt wrong with lurking, but don't delude yourself about it, please. You've had the knowledge, free - and what, pray tell, have you given back to the next generation of learners? Knowledge? Camaraderie? Support in the war against spammers ... what?I don't expect to be coming back ... leaves too much unpleasant aftertaste.Yup; it sure does. :rolleyes:

[ihelpyou]

I have come here in the past for camaraderie and knowledge
You read in here. You get knowledge for free.

Camaraderie? Now how did you get it in here? You made 4 posts over a year ago. You have to actually help someone and communicate in order to use that word. What have you done for this industry lately?.... thought so.

I guess the fact that SES "asks spammers" to speak means that anyone who speaks must be something special? Now JW says that not being a good speaker is a put down or something? :) I'd rather be a good leader and a good statemen who takes a clear stand on things, than someone who blows empty wind in a classroom next to other spammers, and people who are only in it for a buck at the expense of ALL new people to this industry. We know the person you are Jill. I'd quit while you can as you are looking very foolish talking to your "group of spammers".

[AppleSmack]

Originally posted by Irony
Here we go again... can't you see that this place receives enough interest? Can't you see how fast we grow?


http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=large&compare_sites=&y=r&url=http://www.ihelpyouservices.com]

[Moth]

ihelpyou: You read in here. You get knowledge for free.

Um, yes...that's mostly what this SEO forum was created for???

ihelpyou: If you don't like it, don't read, right?

You're dead right there, and I don't expect to be in future...nor do I expect to recommend your resources here to others.
But, I'm only human...had to come back to see what would spew forth after my previous comment.

ihelpyou: You say you don't condone spam, but yet you would rather protect a spammer than out them, right? That's what you just said.

No, I said: you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest.

ihelpyou: We don't protect a spammer in here, whether it's email or search engine spam. We believe in warning new people to this industry.

And you're protecting new people by outing this email spammer, how? Seems to me you're reaching just to gain notoriety and/or spin controversy for your own gain.

Blue: However, I would challenge you to deny the fact that in nearly five years of operation, these forums have provided countless thousands with the help they are seeking.

I don't deny that...heck, I've already stated that I've come here for knowledge in the past. I didn't realize at the time what sort of climate I was getting into though. Y'all seemed pretty level-headed and sensical at the time.

Quadrille: Camaraderie is simply not possible for a lurker; nowt wrong with lurking, but don't delude yourself about it, please.

Well, I felt like there was a degree of camaradie when I came here before (and I did post then, as you've pointed out)... but now after lurking around awhile, I don't feel camaraderie is likely here for me...and I am beginning to wish y'all didn't share the same industry with me. I'm ashamed to see y'all make a big tizzy over some email spammer.

ihelpyou: Camaraderie? Now how did you get it in here? You made 4 posts over a year ago. You have to actually help someone and communicate in order to use that word. What have you done for this industry lately?.... thought so.

ca·ma·ra·der·ie
n. Goodwill and lighthearted rapport between or among friends; comradeship.
n. The quality of affording easy familiarity and sociability

Doing for the industry doesn't seem to be part of the definition...and isn't helping your readership what you do? I'm learning and usually a few steps behind...you wouldn't want my opinions anyways. Obviously.

ihelpyou: I guess the fact that SES "asks spammers" to speak means that anyone who speaks must be something special? Now JW says that not being a good speaker is a put down or something? I'd rather be a good leader and a good statemen who takes a clear stand on things, than someone who blows empty wind in a classroom next to other spammers, and people who are only in it for a buck at the expense of ALL new people to this industry. We know the person you are Jill. I'd quit while you can as you are looking very foolish talking to your "group of spammers".

I hope you're not somehow inferring I'm Jill, but you must be to include this while rebutting me...I'm not Jill, I promise. Nor am I one of her minions, so don't bother to accuse. I'm simply someone disheartened to see y'all acting as you do and speaking as you have on this thread. I thought this was a place worthy of learning and getting to know my peers in the industry. I'm disillusioned and fast becoming jaded with all SEO forums.

Nice to see ya Applesmack, I was thinking I was the only non-moderator to stop in here. Oh wait, according to Alexa I might be!

[ihelpyou]

lol Did someone make a post?

ihelpyouservices.com

ihelpyou.com

hmmm. Seems you need to get some glasses? Welcome to the forums apples! :hi:

[Connie]

No, I said: you guys use "outing" as a way to create controversy for the purpose of gaining forum interest.
Not my purpose nor do I think it is any one else's either.

Typically it is not this forum that makes things controversial. It is the people in the industry who don't want to take a definite stand against Spam that do that.

You say you hate Spam but then your offended because because of our stand of speaking out on the issue.

You claim to have read enough to have felt a camaraderie. I find that surprising. If you had read very much in here you would have know our position.

ca·ma·ra·der·ie
n. Goodwill and lighthearted rapport between or among friends; comradeship


I'm really not sure how you could feel a comradeship when in a years period of time you have not participated enough for us to get to know you or for you really to know us.

You haven't participated enough to be missed, and trust me we don't need your referals.

By not recomending the forum you are not hurting IHY. You will only be hurting the people that you do not recomend IHY to.

[Connie]

Hi Apple and welcome. :hi:

Really not sure what point your trying to make by referring to Alexa. Especially when you reference a domain name that has not been active for a few months.

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Moth
Seems to me you're reaching just to gain notoriety and/or spin controversy for your own gainAs it's idiots like you who create the controversy, maybe you should look at your own motives.

Six posts in over a year; you haven't learned much (you think Alexa matters?), and you've given nothing.

Forums are to give, as well as take; not take then have hysterics. Go get help - and I'm not talking SEO help.

[Moth]

Quadrille: As it's idiots like you ... not take then have hysterics. Go get help -

As I said, name-calling your posters really turns people off to participating here. And I don't bellieve I've posted in hysterics. But, I do find your forum hysterical today.

[WebSavvy]

If everyone doesn't mind, I'd like to close this thread now. It's gone way beyond pointless.

Without all the name-calling and hysterics, this thread might have been productive as some were actually providing useful information about what to actually do with regard to UCE.

As with anything, it's up to everyone to do their own research and find solutions that work best for them.

I've simply enabled spam assassin on all of my email boxes and enabled automatic whitelisting. It has helped to cut down on the spam.

What really bugs me the most is the spam we're getting with subject lines like the following: RE: our listing in your directory.

Then when the email is opened, it's about pE-nIs enlargement. Intelligent spammers they are -> I'm the wrong gender and not in need of enlarging a gland I do not possess.

<sigh> ... OK, so if no one objects, I'll close the thread.

[ihelpyou]

You have learned a lot over the past year in here Moth. I'd rather you read and learn in here than read and "try" to learn elsewhere, even if you don't participate. It depends on "where" you read, but the majority of places out there aren't fit for reading. You are welcome to continue reading in here. I know you don't really mean to defend email spammers. You simply don't like us outing them. Fair enough. We simply disagree. Good luck! :)

[g1smd]

Heh, AppleSmack, so you are saying that traffic here is falling?

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.ihelpyouservices.com (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=large&compare_sites=&y=r&url=http://www.ihelpyouservices.com)



You missed the fact that the forum moved to a new domain in January:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.ihelpyou.com (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=large&compare_sites=&y=r&url=http://www.ihelpyou.com)


:read: :read: :read:

[g1smd]

>> I'm ashamed to see y'all make a big tizzy over some email spammer. <<

I have just spent time working with someone to help them counteract the 8000 spam emails that they get every single day:

Yeah, thats right; one spam every 11 SECONDS all day and all night.




Die Spammers Die Die Die

:gory: :gory: :gory: :gory: :gory: :gory: :gory: :gory: :gory:

[WebSavvy]

Die Spammers Die Die Die
LOL @ g1, now tell us how you really feel? :D

hey g1, maybe you could PM BigDugan and ask him about his "hammer" script. It's something he wrote for just such an occassion. :D

[Quadrille]

Originally posted by Moth
Firstly, let me state unequivocally that I am against email spam - with no shades of gray acceptedOriginally posted by Moth
I'm ashamed to see y'all make a big tizzy over some email spammer.

Quite unlike the Little Tizzy you made while logging out, I notice.

[ihelpyou]

There are no gray areas with email spam or search engine spam. The color gray comes from actual email spammers and search engine spammers and those who protect them, who use that color to blur and confuse new people to the industry. I don't recall myself ever using that color when describing anything.

[Blue]

How I see it:

Blackhat: Spammers, scammers and lowlifes who bilk the innocent

Grey: Those people and entities who don't (for whatever reason) take a stand

Whitehat: Those strong enough to attempt to make the world a better place

[ihelpyou]

Grey: Those people and entities who don't (for whatever reason) take a stand.
That could be slightly revised to this:

Grey: Those people and entities who don't (for whatever reason) take a stand, or they "do" take a stand based on what fora or peoples they happen to be talking to at the time. Mind you, it could be the complete opposite for one group as the other group.

:D

Oh gee; doesn't that sound like most politicians? Yep, sure does. That's right; I forgot, so please forgive me; the elites in our industry ARE Politicians. My brain lost it for a moment as I completely forgot that the majority of people who run conferences and other forums, or who speak at them are most certainly putting their best foot forward depending on who the audience happens to be...... that's what is commonly called....Politicians. :)

[Blue]

Agreed!!!

[ihelpyou]

http://www.newworldproducts.org/

http://www.sunncity.com/

http://www.psychicmarie.com/linkworth.html

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=links%3Awww.linkworth.com&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&x=wrt

Click the last link to view the 173,000 backlinks Linkworth has. Go ahead, view some of the affiliate sites and others who link back to them. Go ahead.

Funny stuff.

Amazing that people in this industry actually praise this. Where do I sign up? :D

[Jim_Hedger]

I ain't gonna play SunnCity.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artists_United_Against_Apartheid)

In the mid 1980's, a movement championed by Lil' Steven (Stevie van Zant - E. St. Band, now on the Sopranos) united musicians against apartheid (institutional, systemic racism of the previous S.African gov't) using a simple slogan... I Ain't Gonna Play Sun City.

The message was spread through the recording of a Live-Aid like song in which over 100 international artists participated. The song was an oath, a promise to boycott the S.African entertainment industry until the policy of apartheid was abolished forever. That song changed my life and put me on my present path as a social change activist.

I see a major parallel in this discussion however I do not see a Lil' Steven emerging in the industry. To do what he did, he had to wade through political muck and form a consensus amongst artists. The goal was to change the world for the better.

I ain't gonna play SunnCity.

[ihelpyou]

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-advice-check-your-own-site/

Most people would actually praise Matt Cutts for taking a stand on search engine spammers, right? Afterall; spam is the big item that can actually threaten the market share of ANY search engine who might care about the quality of their search results, right?

Now; take this blog for instance:

www.insearchofstuff.com/2006/03/15/matt-cutts-callous-comments-threaten-to-re-ignites-long-dormant-war/

It's a bad blog run by TWO MODERATORS of the highrankings.com forums. That's right. Jill Whalen contributes to it as well.

Please read that blog post and the comments/replies to it. Read what JW said about Matt Cutts:

"what do you expect from Matt Cutts?"

I don't know about anyone else, but the search engines are these forums "FRIENDS", not their enemies. Although I don't agree with everything Google does.... adsense quality comes to mind, I also am bright enough to know that people like Matt Cutts is certainly looked at in high regards by myself. He's got a very tough job, especially now with his blog and all the stupid questions he gets on it now.... like Google is going to tell everyone how to build their websites. LOL

Now tell me this; how can these people claim being whitehat when they don't see the value of Matt Cutts cracking down on spammers, and even doing some "outing" on his own?

I'm VERY sorry for taking this thread off topic again, but the "hypocrisy" word comes to mind IN A BIG WAY, and I didn't want to start a new thread for this. :) I'll even link to that silly blog. They need the link anyway.

[JohnC]

As much as I hate to say it, since one of the aforementioned bloggers is Mr. "Artistic Truth" himself, I have always thought that site was supposed to be rather tongue-in-cheek. I don’t think the posts are to be taken seriously and I guess the comments would fall under the same umbrella.

Not usually funny, but not serious either.

[Quadrille]

I think that's right.

the comments are so weird as to be pointless - but that's Artistic Truth; we're supposed to laugh in sympathy.

Difficult, I know. But look at the alternative; are we really to believe that sad blog has something interesting to say?

I really don't think so.

Reread it, with someone standing close by saying "laugh now" every ten seconds.

[bigDugan]

Spam is spam. If it looks like spam, smells like spam, and tastes like spam... then it's spam. Just be glad you didn't step in it!

My very first instinct would of been to check avid's ip address with lworth... I was willing to lay down a couple large that it was the same.

And then there was Jill and her ideas about short story title tags... I think I can remember her "100th" post. LOL

[bigDugan]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
He's got a very tough job, especially now with his blog and all the stupid questions he gets on it now.... like Google is going to tell everyone how to build their websites. LOL
Doug, you know my take on this. I've always said, "I design my sites for my users, and not for search engines". Build it and they will come... and the search engines will follow.

[Just Wondering]

Doug!

Did your lawyers contact them?

Looks like they pulled that post about you from their blog.

[JohnC]

Yeah, here's the new post ... LOL

http://www.linkworth.com/blog/a-weekend-to-think/

[Connie]

Good find John. It's interesting they still claim they are not spammers.

[ihelpyou]

My understanding is that their email to just wondering's client did not have a way to opt-out, nor did it put "advertisement" in the subject line. The can spam act clearly says that's necessary. It's necessary so email filters can filter out unwanted spam.

What they claim is any email they want to send is not spam as long as the business has a website? Is this what they are saying?

[Just Wondering]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
My understanding is that their email to just wondering's client did not have a way to opt-out, nor did it put "advertisement" in the subject line. The can spam act clearly says that's necessary. It's necessary so email filters can filter out unwanted spam.


Doug you are correct. Here is the whole email as it was recieved:

From: Craig Waugh [mailto:craig@linkworth.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:30 AM
To: my@client.com
Subject: search results


Hello,

My name is Craig Waugh and I am an Account Executive with LinkWorth (www.linkworth.com). I found your website while doing a Google search for "clients keyword" through a Pay-per-click Ad. Did you know that you only stand to capture clicks from a MAXIMUM of 6% of searchers with a pay-per-click Ad? Yet with a top 5 natural listing, you stand to capture 80% of those searchers? (According to a study performed by internationally acclaimed Marketing Firm Enquiro. The results of this study can be found at http://www.datadial.net/online-marketing/searchEngines.aspx)

I can't find you anywhere in the top 100 natural listings for that keyword! You NEED my help. I boost my clients to the top of the natural listings for their target keywords with GREAT success through effective Link Building campaigns.

Do you want to start capturing the attention of those 94% (or more) of visitors you're missing?

We will do a complete evaluation for you, showing you where you are within the search engines, & make a recommendation FREE-OF-CHARGE. There is no cost & no long term commitment for you. Thanks for clicking our link above & I look forward to speaking with you soon.



Email me or call my direct line. 214-440-3909

Thanks, Craig



****DISCLAIMER****



All statistical data provided in this email is based on an initial research of your website and the search engines. Statistical data on any search engine can change at any given time so information provided may not be exact at time of reading. All information provided is based on manual research and no automated queries were performed. There were also no clicking of any pay per click ads, banner ads or any other type of marketing that would require a charge against your existing marketing campaigns. This electronic message is personal to you and is in no way a result of any type of bulk marketing or email list.





Craig T. Waugh

LinkWorth

417 Oakbend Ste C1

Lewisville, TX. 75067
214-440-3909

1-866-LNK-WRTH (565-9784)



Clearly the subject is not identified as advertising nor is there any type of opt out method. Had the subject line been legal, it would of never been read because my server spam filter would of killed it. Of course that is why the subject line was not legal. Email spammers know this.

I really love the way linkworth justifies their sending of spam. Oops, forgot a few items to comply with can spam act but that's ok because everybody wants our emails.

I'm really irritated with their arrogance I really hope my submission to the FTC causes them some grief.

I don’t care how they spin it, they sent email that did not comply with the 2003 Can Spam Act and the “oops we forgot some stuff” defense does not cut it. Had they complied with the act, this entire thread would not exist because the email would of never reached a reader thus allowing the Can Spam Act to do what it was intended to do.

[Irony]

Originally posted by bigDugan
My very first instinct would of been to check avid's ip address with lworth... I was willing to lay down a couple large that it was the same.

Nope, it wasn't the same :) But their IP addresses told us an interesting story anyway... I believe Doug mentions it somewhere in this thread :)

[Blue]

Any business that does not have some sort of solicitation is a business that does not do well. That quote is ludicrous!

I know many many many business owners that do very well and have never once solicited any business since day one. It's called supply and demand. If you have a supply of something that is in demand, business will come to you without you having to solicit. We have a sales staff that looks for companies that need our services. And that statement tells a lot.

A sales staff does not "look for companies that need ... service." A sales staff handles sales from sources that come to it.

If you are looking for companies that need your business, you are not selling, you are lead generating.

The originator of the quotes is obviously confused.

[Connie]

Agreed Blue.

I don't see any difference in the Spam e-mail LinkWorth sent than the Spam phone calls I get from SEO firms.

I don't view either any differently than I do calls from any telemarketing company.

They are all unwanted. They waste my time.

[ihelpyou]

Education is what this can be about. If they learn something from this, it's well worth all of this. They now know exactly what is necessary in the emails they send out. They do exactly what the can spam act states and no one has a problem. Just like I'm all for a search engine spammer who wants to actually learn best practices, I'm equally for an email spammer learning how to send email without it being called spam. Maybe this will do them some good? Not only them, but a whole bunch others who are reading this who have sent out spam email and maybe did not know it.

[Blue]

Absolutely, Doug!!!

Helping to learn is what we are all about, contrary to the beliefs of "some" out there.

[Connie]

Helping to learn is what we are all about, contrary to the beliefs of "some" out there
And apparently to a few in here.

[projectphp]

While I was away wine tasting recently, there seems to have been some confusion that I want to appologise for.

Seems that here: http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21764&perpage=10&pagenumber=13#post225990 a post of mine on my "silly blog" was misinterpreted.

I want to state 100% categorically and for the record that the post in question (you can find it via a link in the post linked to) is absolutely, positively, without doubt, unequivically and I can't think of any more hyperbole true.

It is not:
1. Satire.
2. Tongue-in-cheek.
3. Untrue or
4. Funny (as many rightly point out).

I take the little endian big / endian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bytesexual) debate very, very seriously indeed, and I am shocked no one else does.

Anyway, to help differentiate in the future, I have taken Quadrille's advice and added a laugh track. From now on, when an isos post is meant to be funny, even if it isn't funny, and lets face facts, most aren't, I will activate the laugh track, to hopefully avoid any confusion.

Again, I apologise if the post was misinterpreted, and in the future I will try to be more clearer in my style, so that everyone knows what I am meaning.

Michael aka Artistic Truth

[Quadrille]

Apology noted. I've inserted your post into the appropriate thread, to avoid any further confusion.

[ihelpyou]

Thanks for clarifying/confirming what I already knew was the case projectphp.

[JohnC]

LOL ... OK, that was funny .. hehe

In the spirit it was given, apology accepted. :)

I even liked the bit you added to the post on your site

[steveffeo]

"I think Craig needs a few hundred phone calls. He also needs to get out of this industry."

Doug that statement was ment as a joke right???

I consider that statement much worse then the email he sent offering a free evaluation.

This is getting out of hand.

[ihelpyou]

Huh?

You have an agenda stevie.

Check all your posts in here:

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=559866

I'm not responding to your "bait" at all. You clearly stand behind "other" places and what they do. If you don't wish to help us in here, then we don't want you in here. Okay? If all you want to do is stir the pot and be confrontational, we don't want you. :)

You are the member in here who is "out of hand".

[steveffeo]

Sir I am not meaning to stir the pot.

About my first post I checked with the search engines and yes sir it is fine to check your competators backlinks nothing black hat about it. They created the API's to do it.

What concerns me the most is that if someone does not agree with you they are potentially labeled with a bad name which in turn can hurt their company.

Freedom of speech is a great thing and should not be stepped on.

I think deep inside you are trying to do a good thing thats why I joined this in the first place.

We see things diffrently, so I will not post here anymore I do not want any damage done to ffeo.

Good luck and be well all.

Steve

[ihelpyou]

Every post you have made has been to stir things up with "me".

If you really wanted to learn, you would be starting new threads and asking questions. You haven't done that at all. The very few posts you have made have been confrontational. If I were against free speech, I'd be deleting all of them, right?

Your actions are what we can only look at. So far, I don't see anything that tells me you are here to learn at all.

[Connie]

I don't see anything that tells me you are here to learn at all.
Or to help.

[steveffeo]

Connie I came here and asked some questions .

I got beat down by the man because I did not agree. Doug or you or I did not write the Algo so everything is speculation.

I would love to debate this further, oh yikes I cant because no one will answer the specific question I asked in the first place.

Is it black hat to check your competitions backlinks??

There must be like 5 of you just busting my chops because no one can think they are this important.

Doug relax dang not everyone is out to get you I just asked a question. And you are not any more important then anyone else.

Is this some PR thing for you guys?

(afraid to put my url now)

Umm cant plug any non profits cause not sure if that is spam.
Keep firing me up.

Lets just agree to disagree on this and end this thread, I disagree with you Doug and the way you go about things on this forum. If it is not Dougs way we are all wrong.

Peace be with your bro. cancel me from your guest list.
Thanks Buddy.

Steve

[ihelpyou]

What are you talking about?

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=226661#post226661

You came here to stir things up. You came here from "another" forums with a specific agenda. You still have the same agenda.

Who are you anyway? And why did you mysteriously "just" delete your url in your profile? You know darn well what our rules are in here about posting your link. I dislike people who think they can go to anyone's house they want, and do whatever they want once they are at the house. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

[steveffeo]

Who am I?

I am the person who will call you out when you are wrong.

You still will not answer my question

Why did I delete my url (www.foodforeveryone.org)

Because at this point I think your anger might hurt them versus help them.

Doug did I not send you a private message and extend an olive branch and ask you to agree that we disagree???

This is bizzare, frankly I will fight to the end because you are wrong, Cant you just say you are wrong about a thing or two?

I would LOVE to debate this with you with all 3 of the major search engine reps. ie Matt, Bill, Jim, so on. How about this we do a pay per view on webcam and donate all the profits to charity? You cool with that?

I am not saying I have all the answers because I do not, what I am saying is you have no right to beat some site up if they disagree with you.

ok lets try this again.

Hi my name is Steve nice to meet you how can we help some non profits and maximize the tools the search engines provided for us?
We do not want to break any rules set by the tos.

Doug lots of non profits could use the help of a person with the passion you have. How can we work together to make the world a tad bit better place.

Steve
yahoo id steveqpt

Wow this is like the soap operas

[Connie]

Is it black hat to check your competitions backlinks?
I'll answer that question. Nothing black hat about checking your competitions backlinks. It is a waste of time.
I am not saying I have all the answers because I do not, what I am saying is you have no right to beat some site up if they disagree with you.
The site you are trying to defend uses Spam techniques.

The site in question is not www.foodforeveryone.org but Linkworth unless I'm missing something.

[steveffeo]

I am never going to hear the end of this, lol will everyone just relax and stop thinking everyone is a bad person and spammer.

I sent 10 friends here and 8 of them left because of the "drama" maybe I asked the wrong 10 people.

How about this, we wish you the best of luck, at thats it.

See ya next year if we do not get banned from the search engines for being spammers and can afford it after we donate 90% of gross profits to charity.

Is this an extension of the tv show "punked" / You all have to be busting chops.

Doug please let it go, I disagree with you just suck it up and drive on. I understand if you ban me from posts.

Hope you dont you sure as heck do have the drive and passion to succeed, just watch out for the wall in front of you.

Steve

[Quadrille]

What puzzles me is why you keep coming back, if you hate it so much - and every one of your posts is saying much the same thing.

If you want to agree to differ, why do you keep differing?

Let it go; move on - or as you so nicely put it it Suck It Up

I suspect you have a Last Word (http://www.flayme.com/flame/04-psychology.shtml#Final) problem.

[ihelpyou]

Funny stuff. And here I thought this thread was about an entirely different website than the one Stevie posted? I guess I'm mistaken.

Some people just need to feel needed. This member is certainly one of those people. This member just has to make sure they stir things up, and it does not matter what website a thread is actually talking about.

This memb