Vertical Leap Australia E-mail Spam

[nuthin]

Received this e-mail today ..

Hi,

My name is Jayson Munday, for the past five years my company has been
helping businesses with their online marketing needs, and solutions.

We have developed our own proprietary software which allows us to track and
maintain which keywords and phrases are driving traffic to your site, and
what the conversion rate actually is. And this is not only for us, through
our client portal you can watch what is happening on your site in real time.
We will also assign you a Campaign Delivery Manager, who will track the
success of your campaign on a daily basis, and will watch for trends on the
net that may affect your business, and implement proactive solutions to
minimise the risk of losing traffic to your site.

We will show you solutions to your current site, and implement changes that
will get you indexed in the major search engines, without the need for major
site reconstruction. With effective link building, you will also gain
traffic that is relevant to your site. We will work closely with you to
determine what is important to your company. We realise that as your company
grows and changes, your needs change, and with this information we¹ll adapt
new strategies to help you get the traffic you want.

Please take the time to have a read of the presentation I¹ve attached, and
feel free to visit our website http://www.vertical-leap.com.au

Please contact me via the details below if you feel your site could benefit
from effective managed search engine optimisation.

Kind regards,


Jayson Munday
National Business Development Manager


http://www.vertical-leap.com.au

Helping you reach more business!

Toll free: 1300 665 323
Email: jmunday@vertical-leap.com.au
Mobile: 0431 380 981

[nuthin]

My response to his spam was...

"erm.. aha.. do you really think I need your help??????
should check who your sending your spam too.. really."

and well and behold his response was..

"From what I could tell, your site is a business directory, with poor
rankings in search engines, the e-mail was not intended to be Spam. From
doing a brief site analysis of your site, you have not even implemented meta
keywords, so yeah sorry mate, I did think you could use some help. My
company is an search engine marketing firm, not a directory."

[nuthin]

meta keywords tag???
shoot me now someone.
:D

[WebSavvy]

They've been spamming for a while. Check in here for UCE from Vertical Leap US (I posted it last year sometime).

[ihelpyou]

LOLOL

And he has the balls to tell you it's not "unsolicited" email spam? He must be joking, right? Is it April Fools Day??

Hey buddy from Australia; ANY email that we do NOT ask you for that is selling a product is SPAM. What about that don't you understand?

I'd really love for you to reply. I LOVE bashing spammers. Especially naive and stupid ones.

The sad thing is; there are thousands of so-called SEO's out there who put up a website and claim they are an SEO. This firm actually believes the keywords tag means something. I'd hate to be the poor souls who fall for this.

[WebSavvy]

They're tied in with SEOEdge from what we were able to tell via the spam sent to me last year.

The thread is here:
http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21264

[nuthin]

What amuses me the most is this firm is known to purchase Google Adwords for SEO related keywords with the advertisement description reading "SEO does not work".

Haha.

Of course SEO does not work if you are still factoring your SEO on "meta keywords".

Fools with no clue.

[nuthinhater]

SES Speaker List Called into Question by Search Looney
By: Nick W [privmsg - website] On 18th Aug 2005 In Rumours & Scandal
For those TW readers that are unaware of the IHY forums let me preface this post by saying that most Search industry types regard their leader, Doug Heil, as being a bit of a lunatic, and those that follow him, to be snivelly, whiney misfits. Their forum is a non-stop source of entertainment though, and for the many laughs it provides Doug should be commended.

On with the this weeks Darstardly Dougie Showª

There's a great "let's taunt Dougie" thread going on over at IHU at the end of a long discussion on some other bollocks - The skinny is that Doug has a problem with "spammers" being given credibility by being asked to speak at Search Engine Strategies conferences.

Dan0 is taunting Doug for all he's worth, daring him to out those he feels are spammers amongst the nearly 200 strong list of speakers at the recent SES San Jose gig.

For the life of me, i can't work out why he isn't doing it. It would be perfectly in character, and frankly, im baffled by his reluctance.

The last few pages have now been removed, but it's still a cracker :)

suggest story - submit story - del.icio.us - Y! MyWeb
Aren't we all spammers?

I'm under the impression that Google doesn't like anyone manipulating their search engine results. Who is to say getting a blog link is spammier than a directory link? Some idiot at IHY?

But this isn't about blackhat/whitehat, it's about who can speak at these events. Lets face it, the blackhat spammers as they are called offer much more insight into how the search engines rank sites. No one wants to listen to some self righteous idiot spout nonsense I can pick up in a $10 e-book written 3 years ago. It's odd how I've never heard of these "white hat" supremists ranking for anything competitive.

By MrTurner at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:31 | login or register to post comments | top
heh heh

you should've seen that thread yesterday morning....

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:35 | login or register to post comments | top
"Aren't we all spammers?"

Don't ever mention that phrase on IHY...

By Wit at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:37 | login or register to post comments | top
For the life of me, i can't

For the life of me, i can't work out why he isn't doing it. It would be perfectly in character, and frankly, im baffled by his reluctance.

I think he's afraid of getting sued. A few years ago he implied a pretty well known search engine conference speaker was not whitehat or something and all of Dougs minions joined in a feeding frenzy. This speaker very politely but firmly participated in the thread and laid down the law - retract or meet my lawyers.

Best I can remember, you never saw so many minions edit or delete their posts and then head for the tall grass faster and in the end Doug sanitized his posts too.

By Brad at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:42 | login or register to post comments | top
You saw it before the

You saw it before the clean-up job, eh Gurtie?

By qwerty at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:45 | login or register to post comments | top
Libel

You are right about the law, and these guys do tread very close to that. You can't just call someone a spammer and say their stuff will not work without proof. For such "upstanding, honest citizens" they are, they sure gossip like high school girls.

By MrTurner at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:49 | login or register to post comments | top
I got banned

last night Doug banned me - then this morning he un-banned me.

I tried for years to get banned from ihy, he never would, till last night... and I was being good.

I think his white hat is a little too tight...

By lots0 at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:54 | login or register to post comments | top
oh yeah Qwerty

I saw it, that was one of the more, *ahem* interesting tag team efforts for a while. If I were you I'd have said a hell of a lot more than you said back too....

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:57 | login or register to post comments | top
Still..

it has spawned quote of the week for me...

"that notoriously evil den of self-outed spammers at Threadwatch"

LOL

By Serious at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:58 | login or register to post comments | top
Oh ya

That "Who closed the political correctness" thread there is worth a read.

Qwerty, I saw the thread too, before all the edits... Amazing.

By lots0 at Thu, 2005-08-18 17:58 | login or register to post comments | top
relentless

DanO is a funny man, he will close the deal shortly I am sure.

By ukgimp at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:06 | login or register to post comments | top
Dan0 is a good guy

I have aways had a lot of respect for him. More respect after reading his posts in that thread.

By lots0 at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:10 | login or register to post comments | top
"most search industry types...lunatic" -- I missed that survey

That's pretty strong language, Nick. And, what's more, it's unjustified, since you don't explain who is a "search industry type" and how you can show that a majority of these undefined "types" (are we speaking about people?) consider him to be a lunatic.

There are plenty of clueless SEO gurus out there running and moderating lots of forums. Their hare-brained theories are no better than anyone else's.

Why aren't they considered lunatics by "most search industry types"?

By Michael Martinez at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:36 | login or register to post comments | top
I take it you're not

I take it you're not familiar with Doug?

By Nick W at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:39 | login or register to post comments | top
I clashed with Doug when we were both still active on ...

I clashed with Doug when we were both still active on Virtual Promote's forums.

I know precisely who he is, and I was openly skeptical of his opinions long before most people in the SEO world today had ever heard of him.

Nonetheless, I am pretty sure that you cannot prove that "most search industry types" consider Doug or anyone else to be a lunatic.

By Michael Martinez at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:48 | login or register to post comments | top
Christ Michael, you do

Christ Michael, you do pedantistry for a living or what?

Of course i can't prove that - I can't prove 90% of what i write, or say, or beleive - that's just life.

By Nick W at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:49 | login or register to post comments | top
Hmm...

...if it quacks like a loon...

By Wit at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:53 | login or register to post comments | top
"I do not thin' that word means what you thin' it means"

"Pedantistry" -- well, that's a new variation on an old complaint in my book.

Anyway, I wasn't focusing on the details, but on the public display of hate, spite, and ridicule. Usually, Nick, you're not the one wearing the black hat.

Doug has apparently learned to live with the occasional ridicule from his contemporaries. Are you, however, uncomfortable with a little occasional criticism or rebuke?

By Michael Martinez at Thu, 2005-08-18 18:53 | login or register to post comments | top
Quote of the week, eh? Do I get a prize?

I can't figure out how to post in the 'introduce yourself' thread, so I'll just say it here. Hi, I'm Dan0, and I hate spam as much as I hate BS.

By DanThies at Thu, 2005-08-18 19:00 | login or register to post comments | top
Hi Dan.

Don't get yourself too many kudos here. That may work against you. (Or is it already too late?)

J/K. We can definitely use another whitehat to balance things out. Warm welcome.

By Wit at Thu, 2005-08-18 19:08 | login or register to post comments | top
It's already too late Wit,

It's already too late Wit, Dan and I have been speaking in email ever since TW started - back when me and doug were going at it hammer and tong between our two sites - i never thought he'd post here though, but im very, very proud that he finally has :)

>>Are you, however, uncomfortable with a little occasional criticism or rebuke?

hehehe, read some of the archives :) TW'ers don't let me get away with much...

By Nick W at Thu, 2005-08-18 19:15 | login or register to post comments | top
Welcome Dan0

Been a long time, hope you stick around.

By lots0 at Thu, 2005-08-18 19:26 | login or register to post comments | top
I'm not sure if I should be flattered,

or if I should call my attorney. There's a bit of an entertainment factor involved with being the only person singled out by name.

I just wish Doug would tell the truth. Everytime he gets on his "SES and Spammers" rant, he always fails to mention the fact that he was once given an opportunity to speak at SES. The end result was a bad vaudeville act accept we couldn't find any rotten fruit to throw at him.

I've never seen so many people stand up and walk out while someone was speaking. I've also never heard of a speaker getting a rating of zero before. When everything was said and done, he was never asked back because none of the paying attendees wanted to hear what he has to say.

The other point of his rant that is completely absurd is the idea that the "Notorius SES Spammers" are the same people that take on clients and engage in black tactics whitout the clients being aware. That is utter bullshit. (The companies that do that can usually be found in the exhibit hall, not on the speakers podium).

99.99% of black work that has been done by anyone willing to speak about it in public is done on their own personal sites. We've all spent time doing pharmaceuticals, debt consolidation, gambling, mortgages, etc. but that work in no way has any bearing on how we apprroach a mainstream client. And it also has absolutely zero impact on whether or not a mainstream client decides to hire us. If anything, they are less apprehensive because they know exactly where we stand because we are willing to answer whatever questions they want to ask honestly.

By WebGuerrilla at Thu, 2005-08-18 19:49 | login or register to post comments | top
What's the world coming to...

I think the world is probably spinning backwards when I feel the urge to defend Greg! ROFL.

Luckily, by the time I read the thread, it was already closed so the urge went away... ;-)

By Scottie at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:06 | login or register to post comments | top
WebGuerrila

I think you are more inclined to contact a lawyer about that.

You are 100% correct, there is a huge difference in how you handle a corporate client and how you handle your own domains. I've done some bad things on my sites that I wouldn't even mention to an actual client. Some of the best whitehat SEOs I've ever seen have extensive knowledge in blackhat tactics.

I would consider that libel, by labeling you a spammer and someone who should not go near a client. I personally would hate to see my name show up in the SERPs someday in a thread like that. Then again, consider the source. A bunch of guys who are so talented at "whitehat SEO" that they are crying about the price of a plane ticket to a show.

By MrTurner at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:15 | login or register to post comments | top
Wait, I Outed Him...

I'm the one who "outed" Greg over there, not because I think he's an evil spammer, but because he's a perfect example of the kind of person who should be speaking at SES. He can talk about how this stuff really works, and even old dogs like me usually learn something.

I have no idea what kind of tactics Greg may have used to promote drug pushers, loan sharks, or whatever, although I've heard plenty o' rumors... but that's not the same thing you'd do for a mainstream client. Fortune 500's typically don't want trackback bombing done on their behalf.

But a guy who can actually make money in a cutthroat business like the "PPC" categories may have a thing or two to offer, when it comes to targeting, conversion, and generally getting results.

By DanThies at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:39 | login or register to post comments | top
Search Looney

Somehow I just KNEW this thread would be about DOUG

By MrMackin at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:44 | login or register to post comments | top
flying in the face of public opinion

I'd like to suggest that Dougie is in fact simply an over-enthusiastic zealot, whereas his chief henchman is the nutter.

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:55 | login or register to post comments | top
>>chief henchman is the

>>chief henchman is the nutter

Quadrille?

He/she posts here under a secret name they think i don't know about hehe...

By Nick W at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:58 | login or register to post comments | top
links to you too...

you'll be delighted to know ;)

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 20:59 | login or register to post comments | top
Sour grapes

I do think the intense hatred of SES springs from the fact that he was never asked to speak again and probably didn't get any clients from speaking... therefore his constant harping on the fact that people only speak to make more money.

I just go for the free drinks, often paid for by some spammer or other evil SEO with their ill-gotten gains of some black hat technique. ;-) Or Jill... who is a friend to spammers and apparently benefits from it financially and therefore, my drink is tainted with blood money from their distant spamming efforts. eeeeewwww

Perfect example of Springer Forum Marketing- he's now got a wider audience for his views because of this thread. He even admitted he's loving the attention.

The drama keeps things interesting though... get some popcorn and click the "refresh" button...

By Scottie at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:03 | login or register to post comments | top
Quote of the week, eh? Do I get a prize?

Yes

What would you like?

By Serious at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:08 | login or register to post comments | top
f5.... f5.... f5

Makes it tough to get any work done, though. I'm supposed to be on the clock right now.

By qwerty at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:08 | login or register to post comments | top
Dan the Man

Other rumors that are also not true:
1) Doug did not register ihelpyou.com just because ihateyou.com was already taken
2) Doug was not standing on the grassy knoll with a smoking gun in his hand and a "Kennedy Spams" t-shirt

Im never going to get to bed at this rate! hehe...

By Nick W at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:13 | login or register to post comments | top
Your mate Doug H

I confess to not being a regular visitor to IHY, but having looked at it, I see Doug has made 32,200 posts there...32,200

That sure is a lot of opionating!

By cornwall at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:22 | login or register to post comments | top
He/she posts here under a secret name they think i don't know ab

My daughter worked that one out [she's 8]

She also remarked, maybe by coincidence, that there seems an inverse relationship between the quality of a persons website[s] and the size of their whining gob re: matters "spam". And to quote her "just saying Dad".

By NFFC at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:28 | login or register to post comments | top
SPAM

Still love the old definition of spam:

Sites Positioned Above Mine

By MrTurner at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:36 | login or register to post comments | top
2nd Quote of the Week...

"the size of their whining gob"

By Serious at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:39 | login or register to post comments | top
...

I think you need to sort your daughter out with a blog NFFC.

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 21:51 | login or register to post comments | top
Don't shoot the messenger

She said you should keep your conk out of her network. :)

By NFFC at Thu, 2005-08-18 22:18 | login or register to post comments | top
...

oh, tell her it's way past her bedtime....

actually don't - she sounds like she'd beat me up bad.

*****

Did Doug really once speak at SES? When? Was anyone writing the sessions up at the time?

By Gurtie at Thu, 2005-08-18 22:40 | login or register to post comments | top
Daughter says

She heard the main thrust of his "presentation", to the assembled marketing execs of fortune 500 companies, was that it is vital to have a picture of the web site owner on the site to build trust in the brand. She assumed the person who told her that was taking the piss.

By NFFC at Thu, 2005-08-18 22:47 | login or register to post comments | top
HMMMM...

i just wonder if Doug the less in his white pointy hat ever gets worried with that burning cross he's carries around with him..

DaveN

He don't live in the south does he

By DaveN at Thu, 2005-08-18 23:19 | login or register to post comments | top
Sorry, it's my fault!

Unfortunately, Doug was someone I had recommended to Danny as a speaker for that particular panel, back when IHY was a place where you go could for halfway decent info, not flames. But every time I'd see him at the conference and ask if he was ready yet to speak, he said he hadn't figured out what he was going to say. I have to say, I was a little concerned. Basically, because he wasn't prepared, they pretty much had to remove him with the hook. It was kinda sad, and I felt bad since I had recommended him as a speaker to begin with. The good news is that out of all the people I've recommended over the years, the others have all been invited back and do wonderful jobs. So Danny didn't hate me afterwards!

NFFC I think in about 10 years your daughter and my son would make a good pair. He tells me the same sorts of things as your daughter tells you. Nice when they're so much smarter than the parents, no? :)

By Jill at Thu, 2005-08-18 23:27 | login or register to post comments | top
In the same thread

"aren't we all spammers?" morphs into ponderings of calling lawyers when called a spammer. Some self-esteem checks may be in order for one or the other.

By Ssite at Fri, 2005-08-19 00:56 | login or register to post comments | top
"aren't we all spammers?"

"aren't we all spammers?" morphs into ponderings of calling lawyers when called a spammer. Some self-esteem checks may be in order for one or the other.

Quit yer whining already.

By luz at Fri, 2005-08-19 01:11 | login or register to post comments | top
I think...

One would have to show that being called a "spammer" hurts business. Right now in SEO, being knowledgable about those black-hat tactics, gives you both an air of mystery and a (possibly false) reputation for already knowing everything there is to know about white-hat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone from to reps were clamoring for the "spammers'" attention? That's what I saw in NYC, Toronto and San Jose.

By randfish at Fri, 2005-08-19 02:10 | login or register to post comments | top
...

My thoughts on how it can hurt business. If a potential client runs a search on an SEO and sees him being bashed in a forum and called a spammer and that clients should steer clear of him, that is bad. Spammer is also a very negative term to the public. Most people don't know what a search engine spammer is, and they'd assume it was something deragatory. It is accepted in the industry, but to the public it is frowned upon to be called a spammer. I would personally not want to be called a spammer if I wasn't.

Now for my earlier comment on "everyones a spammer", it was tongue and cheek. I feel anything that manipulates a search engine result is under the same classification. I don't see how getting a link in a directory is that much more holier than signing a guestbook. Was more or less saying that an SEO is an SEO, just different tactics.

By MrTurner at Fri, 2005-08-19 02:25 | login or register to post comments | top
ICK

being knowledgable about those black-hat tactics, gives you both an air of mystery and a (possibly false) reputation

Don't say sexy Rand ;)

By projectphp at Fri, 2005-08-19 03:47 | login or register to post comments | top
I don't think it's a problem

The best spammers don't seem to have a problem with the word spammer, and proudly call themselves that, from what I've seen.

By Jill at Fri, 2005-08-19 03:50 | login or register to post comments | top
>>>He don't live in the

>>>He don't live in the south does he

He sure do.

By lots0 at Fri, 2005-08-19 04:09 | login or register to post comments | top
talkng of spammers

impressive link dropping by both Scottie and ProjectPHP in the same thread :D

By Gurtie at Fri, 2005-08-19 06:37 | login or register to post comments | top
Hey .. i have an idea

No BH's allowed

2 questions ..

a) What triggers sandbox Entrance( what will put your site in the trash, btw I don't suffer from sandboxed domains)

b) how do you get an extra 2 pagerank points..

Remember it's Whitehat only..

DaveN

If you can answer both questions and prove it ,I bet matt will talk to you next conf.. best be quick thou you don't want the hole fixed before you can use it ;)

By DaveN at Fri, 2005-08-19 08:22 | login or register to post comments | top
I'll take a shot.

a. Target difficult one-worders in a heavy way, from the start (i.e. not bottom feed as you should if your site is new or if you're a "volume blackhat")

b. Hitch a ride on a bigger domain. Be a student if you must and get yourself a potentially well-respected personal website that's part of an already well-respected domain or network.

Business class tickets please, since it's long-distance ;-)

By Wit at Fri, 2005-08-19 08:30 | login or register to post comments | top
Nope..

b) IBLs.. NO this is a Pagerank +2 boost.. a plain boost ! no links needed

DaveN

By DaveN at Fri, 2005-08-19 08:59 | login or register to post comments | top
and WIT i decide a long time

and WIT i decide a long time ago that you where BH at heart anywhere ;)

Dave

By DaveN at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:00 | login or register to post comments | top
lol

Dave I can't believe you just outed Wit :)

b) do you phone GoogleGuy and beg?

By Gurtie at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:05 | login or register to post comments | top
>> b) do you phone GoogleGuy and beg?

Just email him - it's a bitch to get him on the phone....

By TallTroll at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:13 | login or register to post comments | top
Guys...

I said Whitehats Only :)

DaveN

By DaveN at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:14 | login or register to post comments | top
Ouch...

...It's a fair cop.

J/K of course, I'm squeaky clean (now).

I never tried the begging tactic. I presume one needs the proper "physique" to go with that, gurtie. I may not be eligible for that kind of boost...

I wonder: a PR boost with no IBLs (and no hoarding), that must be a "manual" thing then.

By Wit at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:17 | login or register to post comments | top
Any regular here in "that

Any regular here in "that notoriously evil den of self-outed spammers at Threadwatch" is a spammer whether they put what they know into practice consciously or not :)

By PaulH at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:22 | login or register to post comments | top
yep

my halo was pure and fluffy white until I started associating here with Wit, Qwerty and Jill W.

By Gurtie at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:25 | login or register to post comments | top
how do you get an extra 2 pagerank points?

Sending the lads round with the baseball bats usually seems to work.

By cornwall at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:32 | login or register to post comments | top
Jill W

she's a big Blackhat than Me i spoke at SES on the same panel.. ;)

DaveN

By DaveN at Fri, 2005-08-19 09:37 | login or register to post comments | top
So if you...

...accidentally (=WH) link to a major google engineer's hobby website, you get a +2 PR boost??? Cool!

By Wit at Fri, 2005-08-19 10:49 | login or register to post comments | top
How about

Get a green permanent marker pen and draw a little extra green on the monitor?

By chrisgarrett at Fri, 2005-08-19 10:58 | login or register to post comments | top
sooooooo blackhat

clearly that's showing a different thing to the user than to the SE Chris.

By Gurtie at Fri, 2005-08-19 11:00 | login or register to post comments | top
Besides...

...if you have an LCD screen it'll never come off.

Nah, it has to be "natural". I still stand by the accidental backlink. Maybe if you're a dmoz editor and the G engineer wants to get in (oops did I just say that?)

By Wit at Fri, 2005-08-19 11:05 | login or register to post comments | top
well....

Lessee...

DaveN wants to know how to trip a sandbox/filter, I'm sure there are many choices, my personal favorite would be to get 10,000 links through a few sitewide placements, all consisting solely of the word "viagra." Buying a domain that's already listed in DMOZ seems to be pretty popular, but if you do it right nobody has to know that it changed hands. Rolling out with a content distribution strategy (not talking about RSS or press releases here) has worked very well to launch new sites pretty quickly.

DaveN wants to know how to get a +2 PR boost... I know how to manipulate the toolbar PageRank, so do a lot of folks, but I don't see a point to it. I do know from personal experience that if Google links to your article on Froogle from their press page, your new site will come out of the gate with a PR7 and the article will rank #1 for "froogle" for almost a month, ahead of Froogle.com - anyone who says they manually change SERPs probably hasn't outranked them for one of their brand names.

For anyone who didn't get the joke, labeling TW as a "notoriously evil den of self-outed spammers" and previously as the "official forum of search engine spammers," was all done out of love. I don't care what color hat you claim to wear, if it's worn for style or just to cover a bald spot... real professionals take the time to understand how the system works, and that means learning it all. That doesn't mean I'll ever run one of these robo-blog scripts and hammer everyone with trackbacks, but I understand how it's done.

Lots0, "he sure do" made me spit my coffee... me an' the missus is also livin' in the salth these days.

By DanThies at Fri, 2005-08-19 14:00 | login or register to post comments | top
my halo was pure and fluffy

my halo was pure and fluffy white until I started associating here with Wit, Qwerty and Jill W.

Don't blame me. I got here completely by accident, just randomly typing characters into my location bar after spinning in my deskchair 41 times (counter-clockwise, of course).

So I remain pure as a little lamb frolicking in a field -- a field cared for by purely organic means.

baaa.

By qwerty at Fri, 2005-08-19 15:01 | login or register to post comments | top
"Search Looney" may upset him Nick...

looking at his site I think he would prefer something like:

Chief "WhiteHat" Search Looney Expert (SLE)

By Pickled at Fri, 2005-08-19 15:05 | login or register to post comments | top
I don't think he minds too

I don't think he minds too much, as long as people are talking about him Picked..

By Nick W at Fri, 2005-08-19 15:08 | login or register to post comments | top
that's the worst part of all this...

people talking about him. as my wife likes to say -- "he's not dead yet!?"

By Pickled at Fri, 2005-08-19 15:12 | login or register to post comments | top
I love this.... the longest

I love this.... the longest comments trail I have seen in awhile apart from the intro page.

By AussieWebmaster at Fri, 2005-08-19 20:39 | login or register to post comments | top
Most Loonies

at least stand up for their convictions (no matter how bazarre).

But the search looney won't even do that.

Not just a Looney, but rather a sad little looney with no balls.

By lots0 at Fri, 2005-08-19 21:40 | login or register to post comments | top
DaveN asks...

2 questions ..

a) What triggers sandbox Entrance( what will put your site in the trash, btw I don't suffer from sandboxed domains)

b) how do you get an extra 2 pagerank points..

I know I'm not considered a whitehat anymore, but I will answer anyway.

a.) Simply having a new domain will trigger it. Doesn't matter if you build lots of links, or little bits of links. No matter what you do, you're in the litterbox with a new site.

To not trigger it, I heard a secret from a blackhat friend in SJ, but I'm not sure if it would be cool to spread it here just in case it's not common knowledge yet. (I still remember when another of my blackhat friends made many people mad at him when he told of the last way of not being effected by the aging delay, way back in Stockholm.)

Regarding the 2 PageRank points, why would anyone even care? (Meaning my answer is I don't know!)

By Jill at Fri, 2005-08-19 21:51 | login or register to post comments | top
Jill

I've seen plenty (well, OK 4 or 5 out of several hundred) new sites dodge the "box", but I haven't nailed down what did it. I do know that they didn't get "blogrolled", nor did they have a particularly optimized backlink or on-page structure.

It would be my guess that Google is looking for "unnartural" level of optimization and they appear to have done a pretty good job of it (although they catch a LOT of wheat with the chaffe).

2 PR points... I know a couple ways to start with a 3 or 4 PR based on hosting, but I've never heard of a way to simply give 2 more PR points to any site (other than fudging the toolbar, or as Dan noted, using the Google cloning trick), but that's not 2 more PR...

I'm dying to hear about it though, Dave.

By randfish at Fri, 2005-08-19 23:41 | login or register to post comments | top
Rand

If you have any examples, Rand, I'd love to see them. Every other time anyone's had an alleged site that wasn't effected by the aging delay, it was always for silly keywords. Please pm me any you know of!

By Jill at Sat, 2005-08-20 03:48 | login or register to post comments | top
> No matter what you do,

> No matter what you do, you're in the litterbox with a new site.

Jill, you seem to be entirely focused on those US and .com domains. Try some local domains and You'll see a very different picture. The world is bigger than the US - trust me, there is actually a world outside and it's great :)

By Mikkel deMib Sv... at Sun, 2005-08-21 06:14 | login or register to post comments | top
b) how do you get an extra 2 pagerank points..

Well as Dougie his-self told me I wear a hat as white as the driven snow... (laughing so much it is hard to type) I feel completly qualified to answer this question.... (heh heh heh)

Try installing Alexa's tool bar...

source: http://seoblackhat.com/category/black-hat-tools/

[added]
Dan0, we are going to have to agree to disagree on those hand tweaked google results. ;-)

By lots0 at Sun, 2005-08-21 16:18 | login or register to post comments | top
I know how to manipulate the

I know how to manipulate the toolbar PageRank, so do a lot of folks, but I don't see a point to it.

with all the TBPR monkeys out there, some unscrupulous folks have been known to sell links based on PR. But that PR is skanked, so not really worth what it is being slod for. Very sneaky and quite commendable in some ways lol

By ukgimp at Mon, 2005-08-22 09:11 | login or register to post comments | top
Alexa toolbar eh?

I had to laugh, and comment, when I saw the "evidence" that G & MSN are using Alexa data for rankings. We'll see if my comments make it past the moderation step.

He is correct in stating that search engines do index the 'traffic detail' pages, and that they do carry a link (via a 301 redirect). But there are a lot of automated garbage links like that out there, and a whole lot better ways to get them than installing spyware.

I wasn't actually able to find any Alexa traffic details pages that showed PR in the toolbar, and as I pointed out over on his blog, the URL he's checking is not the traffic details page for his site.

By DanThies at Wed, 2005-08-24 23:30 | login or register to post comments | top
Try some local domains and

Try some local domains and You'll see a very different picture. The world is bigger than the US - trust me, there is actually a world outside and it's great :)

Well, that's actually what I was going to say as my answer (cuz you told me about it in SJ, Mikkel!) but I didn't want to spill the beans if it was a secret or anything.

[offtopic]While we're talking about the aging delay, however, can anyone confirm that a subdomain will still not be effected? Or does G put those in the sandbox these days too? Just wondering because I have a client that is planning to move their site to a subdomain of their site and I'm a bit nervous about that.

By Jill at Wed, 2005-08-24 23:54 | login or register to post comments | top
Jill, From somewhat limited

Jill,

From somewhat limited experience: I just created two new subdomains on a site within the last couple of months. Both are spidered and getting traffic. I have no idea about things like PR because I don't have any PR reporting bars installed on my Macs.

By Brad at Thu, 2005-08-25 00:02 | login or register to post comments | top
Alexa's data is very limited

I don't see why a service like Google would be interested in what Alexa has to say about a site.

The black hat site is interesting for killing time, but maybe it's getting a little too much attention from this community.

By Michael Martinez at Thu, 2005-08-25 16:04 | login or register to post comments | top

[nuthin]

I feel loved.
:rolleyes:

[nuthin]

BTW.. if this is Vertical Leap which I'm sure it probably is; do you think those people you copy + pasted in this thread would show respect to your firm after the spam you sent me?

Highly unlikely.

Now go on.. get those "meta keywords" going on your customers sites!

:o:

[nuthinhater]

[Removed. Duplicate post. Same mindless, banal drivel as previous post // Admin]

[nuthin]

nice to see the level of professionalism over there at Vertical Leap.

let me guess, is that what your customers can expect from you too??

SEO wannabe's come to mind.

[nuthin]

nice thread merging. :)

[WebSavvy]

It was a duplicate post (he posted in the New Members forum also) so I just put it here with the other one.

Looks like you picked yourself up a stalker. Were the spammers having a yardsale? How much did your stalker cost you? :lol:

[nuthin]

My first ever hater, usually I have lovers out there.. :ladysman:

I posted this thread link when I responded to the e-mail criticizing the use of the "keywords" tag on my web site. Glad they took the time to come here and state there position intelligently and professionally. :rolleyes:

[WebSavvy]

Maybe he was just tired after all of that heavy mouse action doing copy and paste? :floor:

OK, I'm having way too much fun ... I'm overly tired. Long day. See you guys tomorrow!

:cheers:

[ihelpyou]

LOL

Baby Jayson emailed me to complain and told me his email was NOT spam to you. I told him otherwise. I also told him the best thing he could do at this point is to say he was sorry to you for sending email spam. I guess he truly doesn't think he's a spammer.

What the hell did he just post? :green:

[nuthin]

The thing is if he just replied to my initial reply to him with "I'm sorry about the e-mail, I will make sure it does not happen again.." I probably would not have posted here.

But with the response I received questioning my SEO prowess, I took it quite personally. With the advice given such as "you have not even implemented meta keywords" it's showing me an amatuerish knowledge level of SEO.

I hope Jason is not taking it personally as for all I know he could just be a sales person and not the actual SEO Consultants at Vertical Leap (who must be cringing..) when there firm is sending out spam & advice like this.

Hopefully they take the criticism on board and better themselves.

Cheers,

[nuthinhater]

I would just like to inform every new user on the people that use this site, for what ever purpose. Just before you become a member of this site, please, please please check out threadwatch.org/node/4266 or simply put in a search for yourself. (ihelpyou bad press). The group here, from what i can tell, have no ethics and merely like to slander competition in the form of forums, and from what i can tell is the same group of five or so people. If you still wish to join this site, all the power to you, good luck with all you want to achieve. They claim to be ethical and moral, but they are the first that I have come across in five years of being in seo that have actually used liable and slander to try and downplay their competition, pathetic really. I also wonder how much time these people are putting into thier clients??? when all they do is act like cats on heat on this website?

[nuthinhater]

I would like to remind members about a case (which i think Dougie would like you not know about) the case about link builders, which Doug and all his minions ran to the hills to delete their threads. Ethical??? I'll let you be the judge. And something for Doug, who has called me (I think to my recall buddy from Australia, yeah like we're not as advanced as you Dougie, lol) Australian law tends to follow English law on defamation issues, although there are differences introduced by statute, and by an implied constitutional limitation on governmental powers to limit speech of a political nature.
A recent judgment of the High Court of Australia has significant consequences on interpretation of the law. On 10 December 2002, the High Court of Australia handed down its judgment in the Internet defamation dispute in the case of Gutnick v Dow Jones. The judgment, which established that Internet-published foreign publications which defamed an Australian in his Australian reputation could be held accountable under Australian libel law, has gained worldwide attention.

And also, your judgement on "spam" also needs to be rectified, under international definition "spam" is said to be not unsolicitated email, but email of a bulk nature, so before you "slander" companies for using "spam" tactics, maybe you should check your own facts first.

[ihelpyou]

Yes spammer. We hear you.

Thanks for being stupid and a jerk. Thanks for pointing out the defamation at TW as well.

Unsolicited email spam is exactly that..... unsolicited. You send out email to people even if they NEVER asked you to receive it. That's email spam buddy. That's also a SEO who is very desperate for business. Who the hell would ever deal with a firm who is desperate for money? Not too many.

Get your facts straight please. Try suing "me". I'd love it... trust me. LOL

An email spammer suing someone? That would be a first.

You really should simply go away. This is only serving to keep this thread at the top. If you let the thread die, it would be much better for you.

[SEFL]

Originally posted by nuthinhater
I would just like to inform every new user on the people that use this site, for what ever purpose. Just before you become a member of this site, please, please please check out threadwatch.org/node/4266 or simply put in a search for yourself. (ihelpyou bad press). The group here, from what i can tell, have no ethics and merely like to slander competition in the form of forums, and from what i can tell is the same group of five or so people. If you still wish to join this site, all the power to you, good luck with all you want to achieve. They claim to be ethical and moral, but they are the first that I have come across in five years of being in seo that have actually used liable and slander to try and downplay their competition, pathetic really. I also wonder how much time these people are putting into thier clients??? when all they do is act like cats on heat on this website?

1) Most people are quite capable of reading and interpreting things for themselves, and if this place is half as bad as you and others make it out to be, no one would ever post here.

2) If you're going to accuse someone of "liable", make sure you use the correct spelling of the word.

3) It's not that difficult to spend 30-60 minutes here a day and still have time to deal with clients.

4) You really have no point, and since you don't have the balls to admit to who you are (website, name or otherwise), you really need to take a trip down the yellow brick road and split the courage 50/50 with the lion.

[Irony]

Funny folks over there. Just like LinkWorth... :D

[ihelpyou]

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=20382

That is the thread they are talking about at threadwatch and the url you posted buddy.

And YES; That TW thread is defaming me in a big way. I just read it in it's entirety.

You will notice that JasonD.. the starter of the thread says I DID NOT call his wife. I'm from the USA and don't have any kind of foreign accent at all. That whole thread is defaming me in a big way. And Yes; I'd love for everyone to read it. It's a known Spammer who is pissed off that he was called out as a damn scraper of content..... and he was. Trust me; ALL SEARCH ENGINES know he was scraping content for Adsense Profits. Period.

I think you and your SEO firm need to learn a thing or two about search engines and this industry. You should spend time in here reading all you can. Please ask questions about what you don't understand as we have many experts in here to help you. :)

Also; please notice we never did hear about who called his wife?? I actually think it was totally false as if someone did call his wife and the police were called about it, they certainly would have the exact house and phone number who called by now, don't ya think? LOL

[nuthinhater]

I'll try to post my thread again, last time there seemed to be a problem, it mysteriously disappeared!!! For all the new users, or prospective members please have a look at threadwatch.org/node/4266 it's quite an interesting read. The people on this site, claim to ethical, but all they seem to be good at is "liable and slander" which they are not only good at, they are great at, (seo I'm not sure, maybe). They claim to be ethical, but no ethical company I know of uses tactics such as these to deface competition!!! And I have dealt with large vengeful corperations!!! Dougie has also referred to me as "Australian buddy" well Dougie I'm sure here "down under" we're just as advanced as you in search engine optimisation, if not better!!! All I see you do on this website is act like cats on heat, how much time do you actually spend on your clients??? or is it that you have none to spend time on??? I would also like to quote on Australian law, something with which I have asked you deal with, but you basically refused, (you will be recieving a letter shortly)

A recent judgment of the High Court of Australia has significant consequences on interpretation of the law. On 10 December 2002, the High Court of Australia handed down its judgment in the Internet defamation dispute in the case of Gutnick v Dow Jones. The judgment, which established that Internet-published foreign publications which defamed an Australian in his Australian reputation could be held accountable under Australian libel law, has gained worldwide attention.

Also your definition on "spam" seems to be quite incorrect, the international definition of "spam" is not unsolicitated email, but email that is sent in bulk. So before you use "slander" on companies, please research your own facts first.

Let's see how long this thread lasts, if you read this, watch with me!!! it's quite funny how quickly they take it off!!!

[ihelpyou]

Hey Spammer; Your thread was merged with the appropriate OTHER damn thread. Quit posting the same damn thing over and over again. I understand you might be deprived of knowledge, but seriously, please stop posting the same stupid crap when it's in the other damn thread... okay?

Someone will be moving this to the appropriate forum again. We don't delete anything, you stupid idiot.

[ihelpyou]

Matter of fact; you post this again and you are banned. Period.

http://www.ihelpyou.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23264

All your posts are in that thread buddy.

[Irony]

I merged it. It's my job, as a mod :)

This thread will last just long enough for you to understand it, then I or someone else will merge it again with the other thread, as you don't deserve two threads in here :p

UGH! :mad:

[Irony]

Merging done.

;)

[nuthinhater]

I am not trying to get on the wrong side of you or this website, i merely don't like the way you try to defame people and cooperations. I am open to any form of criticism, it will only help us. Just a question, and i'm not trying to being a smart arse, how do you gain new clients? what methods do you utilise?

[Irony]

They come through our websites, then recommend us to their friends also.

[nuthinhater]

how do we become an affiliate of your website? Our company has no intention of spamming anyone, but we do find it a more effective means than cold calling.

[ihelpyou]

"Defamation" is when something is posted that is "false" and can be proved as false. Show me that these forums post false things please?

Email spammers and search engine spammers don't like us in here as we "OUT" them as spammers. It's not false at all.

[ihelpyou]

No, Irina means that if you are a "good" member in here, and have a link in your profile that leads to your website, visitors "in here" will go to your website.

[nuthinhater]

So how does one become a "good" member? I do like the whole concept of your site, i have read through the forums and they are informative. If you have ideas that could benifit our company, I would be open to any communication.

[ihelpyou]

The forums are for members to put minds together to better their own websites. We share information in here. The way you benefit is to help all of us answer the questions in here that people ask. That's how you become a good member.

[nuthinhater]

sounds fair enough. Can we put grudges behind us? start fresh?

[Irony]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
No, Irina means that if you are a "good" member in here, and have a link in your profile that leads to your website, visitors "in here" will go to your website.

Not quite, Doug :)

Nuthinhater asked how we acquire SEO clients - and I answered. People can come from the engines or from PPC, or other sources, not necessarily from here.

By our websites, I meant our business websites (each one who practises SEO, has one).

Nuthinhater, I've never heard of any "affiliate" programs here. I have never heard of anyone of our mods or most active regular members using cold calling to find new customers. I certainly don't :)

And yes, you are more than welcome to start fresh :) Thanks!

:cheers:

[Blue]

Fresh start?

Perhaps the best way you can show us you are sincere is to admit that you did send UCME (http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.852114:STANDARD:: pc=PC_1966 <-- take out space) to assure us you will from this point on comply with the laws of many countries in this regard, and to apologize to our Moderator nuthin.

Only after that point, will I personally have considered you being sincere about wanting to start afresh.

[Connie]

One point I thought interesting under Australian law.

http://www.acma.gov.au/ACMAINTER.1900810:STANDARD:: pc=PC_1968

A spam message is not necessarily sent out in 'bulk' to numerous addresses – under Australian law, a single electronic message can also be considered spam.

[SEFL]

You might want to reregister under a different nickname, too. "nuthinhater" doesn't do much for your rep in that regard.

[ihelpyou]

I can change his username to whatever he wants.

[SEFL]

...or you can get Doug to change your username to whatever you want.

I'm glad I thought of that. :D

[Quadrille]

But FIRST you apologize to nuthin

Fair enough?

[Dave Hawley]

Originally posted by nuthinhater
how do we become an affiliate of your website? Our company has no intention of spamming anyone, but we do find it a more effective means than cold calling.

I think you what really mean is, it's easier for spammers to send email spam than deal with a real human over the phone.

ANY firm (SEO, or otherwise) that spams is doomed to failure. A quick read of your site confirms just that.

[nuthin]

Had a few missed calls on my mobile this morning.
Traced the number back via Google to a Sydney based lawyers office. Let's hope it wasn't this firm now. :)
Scare tatics don't work with me.
Let's see over the next few days if I get any certified letters through the mail.
Won't jump to conclusions, was just a bit weird finding the firm who owns the missed number.

[Dave Hawley]

Nuthin, on a more interesting note, how about them Eagles on Saturday! What a game. Pity it wasn't a Dockers-Eagles Grand Final.

[nuthin]

I'm amped for it!

At half time I thought it was all over against Adelaide but to come back from that far down and to win the way they did was an amazing thing to watch!

Can't wait for this Saturday.. Sydney will be hard to beat though.
We have to put a full stop on Hall, O'Loughlin, Goodes and Nick Davis if we do that.. we should bring home the flag back to the wild West where it belongs. :)

[Dave Hawley]

At half time I thought it was all over against Adelaide but to come back from that far down and to win the way they did was an amazing thing to watch!That is was. I think Woosha had some harsh words for them at half-time :)