Finally - new WebSavvy structure up and available!

[WebSavvy]

After a very, very lengthy update -- we're proud to say our new structure is up and available.

A lot of work has gone into this.

Currently we're in the process of moving all of the new files up so there's bound to be some areas where a page won't show yet until it's uploaded.

The submission form is open, and working.

The categories are up and working.

I'd be interested in hearing any feedback -- both good and bad.

[Connie]

Haven't looked but CONGRATS!!!!

I know you have been working on this for a ling time.

[Dave Hawley]

Nice job Deb!

One thing I notice is, the last line of each description for listings has the bottom quarter covered by the URL.

[ihelpyou]

Congrats! :cheers:

But when I typed in something into the search box, I hesitated and said "now what".

There was NO submit button or GO button!! LOL

If I hesitated about this, think how others might take the idea of no go button. I know you simply click your enter key, but don't people just love clicking stuff with their mouse? I think you need a submit or go button. :)

[WebSavvy]

Doug, those buttons above the searchbox are the "go buttons" ... it's a multi action search form.

There's only one way to do that, and it's using the onClick event to send the user to the correct search form.

Thanks, Dave ... I'll check it in my other browsers. Everything looked fine in the development area and then some things just went goofy in the transfer.

I plan to fix all the little things like that tonight.

There are a lot of sites currently being moved to proper categories. It's easier to do it when you can work with it from what everyone else sees too.

It's kind of in a beta pass right now. Over the next few days, it'll become a stable release. :)

[grungee]

Hi Deb, congratualtions it looks excellent. One small thing your html and css check links at the bottom right hand corner, you must have the bots banned.

In firefox I was able to use the search box but in ie6 it just added the # at the end of the url.

[WebSavvy]

OK, the float issue is fixed now. I had two CSS files (one old and one new) in the development area and moved the old one to the live area instead of the new one.

Should look OK now?

[WebSavvy]

Yeah, Tony -- using that "whitelist" .htaccess file, they can't access the site. I plan to take out the whitelist in just a minute and will go back to using the old ban file I was using before.

I need to be able to validate my files from time to time whenever I make changes.

Hang on -- and you can click those links in a few seconds. :)

[grungee]

Sorry Deb I should have realised you would be online hehe. I edited my message above but you responded so you may not have seen the new problem I saw with ie6.

I think you probably are still working on the site so some of the problems I am seeing you are probably fixing right now hehe do you still want me to list them?

[WebSavvy]

hmmm ... OK, Tony -- thanks. I'll check that out too.

The XML feed on the index page has an image in it with the ending:

.svg.png

and that one little thing is causing my index page not to validate right now.

:mad:

The rest of the site (my code) is valid.

[Irony]

Congrats, Deb :)

:cheers:

Please check it in the IE7 :)

[WebSavvy]

I don't have IE7.

Right now I'm redoing the css file.

[SEFL]

You having hosting issues, Deb?

Seems to be down at this end.

[WebSavvy]

No, I'm not -- not that I'm aware of? I just looked at it and it's fine.

[Irony]

Okay, Deb, when you finish redoing the CSS, please let me know. Once back home, I'll look at it again through IE7 - when I did last time, it was broken.

Looks fine in other browsers though :)

[ihelpyou]

Yep. You cannot read anything on the front page using IE7 Deb. All is okay with all other browsers.

[WebSavvy]

OK, thanks for letting me know this. I'm redoing a few things so it may make a big difference.

[SEFL]

I figured out why I couldn't see it (still can't). My ISP is having DNS server issues and it started right about the time I tried to visit your site, coincidentally.

So...it's probably my end. I still can't see it, but there ain't a damn thing I can do about it yet. I really tried to review it...honest and truly I did.

[maninderwalia]

Really Cool Deb

[SEFL]

Well, I can see it now. Looks okay to me, but the middle looks totally blank in IE6. If there's supposed to be stuff there (like cats for the directory), there aren't.

As far as the submission thing is concerned, why not have the five buttons below and looking like submit buttons? Put the words "Search In: " beside them and you'll be fine, I would think.

Most of the links don't work in IE, but others mentioned that.

What you may want to do is have the searches return the results if nothing is entered into the search blank, rather than nothing at all. That way, stupid people who leave the search form blank (like I did on purpose pretending to be someone stupid) still see something.

http://www.websavvy.cc/?catid=23323

It says "1-0 of 0 entries." If there are no entries, you're better off saying nothing at all.

These are all design-type issues though. Your largest issue, the directory itself, is already taken care of. The sites listed from what I could see are all worthy of inclusion and the rest of these things will take care of themselves in due time (or, to be more accurate, you will take care of them. ;) )

[WebSavvy]

The categories that report 1-0 entries, are enabled because there's listings being moved to those.

Any categories where we don't have anything listed, are not enabled.

This way we don't have a bunch of empty cats showing.

I'm redoing the css file right now and am redoing the search box to use a drop menu Vs buttons. This will be the best way IMO.

Then after these two issues are addressed, I'll move over the other new sections. There's more there than just the directory.

;)

[SEFL]

There is? The links down the site didn't give that away. ;)

Seriously, I just focused on the directory because I figured it would be where most of your traffic would go (that, and a lot of the links don't work yet.

That...and I didn't want to be too hypercritical too quickly of something I feel is a valuable resource overall, so I'm pacing myself for your own sake. :)

[WebSavvy]

LOL.

Yeah, it's just a lot to move over. Looking at things behind a pass protected development area somehow isn't quite the same as seeing it on the production server.

There's still counts that are incorrect because sites are actually live, but they're in a holding queue due to being made homeless in the move.

So, those sites have to be gone through one by one and placed into the appropriate categories because the entire structure changed.

Then tomorrow I'll be shifting the rest of the processed submissions into the db which will put us up around 7,000+ indexed sites. :)

[SEFL]

What may make it easier (if not now, then at least in the future and for others who may be reading this) is to use variables for various settings related to the production server and live server.

For example, this machine I'm on is my production server. I have an include file in ASP that detects the server name (domain name), and if it's "localhost" (my production server), it loads a set of variables related to the page root (Page_Root), image root (Image_Root), and database path (Data_Source) in relative terms to localhost.

If, on the other hand, the server name matches the domain name of the site, Page_Root, Image_Root, and Data_Source all change.

That way, code doesn't need to change and data doesn't need to change...just needs to be transferred.

Don't know if that helps, but I figured I'd throw it out there just in case it made your life 5% easier.

[WebSavvy]

Oh, I already do that and have been doing that for years.

All my files are always called the same things. The variables never change, and to change the layout of something, I just have to change the CSS file and that's it.

Every single section in a page has its own variable and if I want to move $menu from the left to the right, I just change one thing in css.

What I meant is, it's different seeing something live and being able to check it.

In the pass protected area, I can't even validate stuff the normal way because it's pass protected. Just makes it a pain.

[SEFL]

Ahhh, okay. That I can dig.

[rishi321us]

Don't know why, but I used the search box for 3-4 queries and for all the queries it would not return any result but the page would simply change from http://www.websavvy.cc/ to http://www.websavvy.cc/# - just as irf we have clicked on a # link.

[WebSavvy]

Yep, I'm aware of this. I'm changing the code on the searchbox, its layout, and some stuff in the css file. It'll be done by tomorrow. It's Christmas, so I didn't do much work. :)

[Connie]

Very clean looking. One thing I noticed using FF. The graphics on each side of the logo. I have no idea what they link to. I can figure a couple of them out based on the image, but a tool tip would be helpful. It appears that you left the title attribute out.

All but one of those links actually point to your home page. The games link does seem to go to the right page, but still no tittle attribute.

Any time one person does something as massive as you have, they (you) are simply going to miss things.

For those who don't know the new directory is a massive change as far as code and navigation is concerned.

Even with the few changes that have been pointed out, Congratulations on the launch.

[WebSavvy]

Thanks Connie. Yeah, I know the images at the top aren't linked yet and it was done on purpose until I can move those sections over.

We have a ton of new stuff and it's a lot to move over all at once so I'm doing it in sections. As those sections are moved in, the links to them will be put in place. Until they're there I just have it as <a href="#"> ... because it's better than linking to an empty section and it keeps people out of that section until I can have it moved, test it, and make sure it looks good before it's "public" :)

[WebSavvy]

The directory has now been completely set up on the new server. There's a new structure in place, using folders because I'm not real fond of dynamic files.

The search forms have been fixed (and they have a "GO" button ;)).

The layout issues with IE7 have been addressed *hopefully* because I recoded the entire layout over again, from top to bottom.

301s have been added to help users and bots find their way from the old layout to pages in the new layout, and new sitemaps have been uploaded to google to help ease the transformation.

If you find anything odd, missing, etc. please let me know because there's so much stuff there something's bound to get missed.

[Connie]

Congrats Deb. :cheers: :cheers:
I know this has been a long process for you.

It appears that you are missing the title attribute on the navigation graphics at the top of the page.

The text on the add for zavd.com is way to large IMHO.

The box for "In Today's News" could be a lot shorter. The display width may be tied into the Google add above.

The graphic for "Low Sodium Levels Tied to Salty Food Consumption" is not displaying for me. All I see is a blank space.

I realize all this is minor compared to all you have done.

Again congrats. :cheers: :cheers:

[WebSavvy]

Thanks Connie. :)

The text in the Google ad, I have no control over. LOL. Yeah, I saw it too and thought "Geez that's some HUGE text"

I just checked the top navigation file and the images do have ALT text, but I added the TITLE attribute to the LINK and now you should see that as well.

It's been a long haul getting all of this stuff moved and up. LOL. Now I'm going to take a few hours off. :)

[ihelpyou]

Very nice Deb!

sheesh; you mean Google is responsible for that size of text? I don't know what you mean by you cannot change it. That doesn't seem right as that text is waaay big. :)

[WebSavvy]

Thanks, Doug. :)

Yeah, I mean I can't change the text size in Google ads. They're the only ones that can. LOL

[ihelpyou]

I'm not getting it. I don't see ads on other sites that size? What do you mean?

[WebSavvy]

Google has different size ads and the advertiser is the one that submits their ads (text size and all).

So whatever advertiser that this ad belongs to, is the one that submitted it to AdWords with text that HUGE.

[polarmate]

That's not a text ad. It's an image ad. You can, as a publisher, choose not to display image ads. Or if the ad is annoying, you can block that advertiser. :)

[Connie]

I don't know much about Adsense but I thought you had some control over what you display.

I think Manisha has the answer.

I will say this. If I ever use adsense I would not display an add like that on my site, even if it meant dropping Adsense completely.

[ihelpyou]

Okay, that makes more sense.

Yes. Please block that advertiser, or better yet, just block the image ads. LOL

[Danny]

Congrats Deb !

Everything looks very nice from here.
(and i'm seeing other ads)

I have just one question. What does this "508" mean at the bottom right corner ? (where you have the links to xhtml, css and WAI-AAA)

And here's one small detail/remark/question.
I notice that you are using access keys. I could be wrong but i suppose the reason to use them is to allow visitors to use their keyboard instead of their mouse. Then i wonder why the instruction on how to use them is mentioned in the title attribute which appears only when hovering over the link. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Maybe underlining the first character of the links would be an option ?
But as said earlier, it's a detail.

Congrats again !

[WebSavvy]

Thanks, Danny.

I don't have the link in there yet for section 508, but it will be added later tonight.

I also have another file I'll be putting up that tells the access keys. I had them underlined at first, but it makes it very congested looking.

The accesskey is also listed in the title attribute because sceen readers read this.

On every link in the directory, the first letter of the hyperlinked word is the accesskey.

I did everything according to AAA standards. :)

[Danny]

I did everything according to AAA standards I have one word for you ...
exceptional !:clap:

[WebSavvy]

:o: :)

[Connie]

Something else I just noticed. There is small text displayed behind the logo.

[Quadrille]

Good to see The Baby out in public - Good Luck with it!

:cheers:

[WebSavvy]

Originally posted by Connie
Something else I just noticed. There is small text displayed behind the logo.
There is? :confused:

Maybe I missed an ending quote on the alt tag. Let me go have a look and thanks for the heads up.

The text you're seeing -- does it say "WebSavvy Directory" ... ???
Because that's what's in the ALT text.

[WebSavvy]

Connie, I just looked and I didn't miss any ending quotes in the ALT text. I don't see any small text behind the logo either.

Maybe what you're seeing is that blue text that FF displays for images while they're loading? If so, the blue text that FF displays is the "ALT" OR "Title Text" for the image file.

If you're seeing the row that has the following text:

Directory | News | Media | Audio | Video

Then that's the searchbox buttons. It uses CSS positioning to pop them into place and sometimes they load, and the searchbox lags behind -- but if you refresh the page, they'll pop into place with the searhbox.

It doesn't happen often, but I've seen it happen a few times.

[Connie]

Deb the text is behind the logo at the center of the page. It's still there. I can't read it, and but I can see it. I don't think it has anything to do with FF. At least I have never seen anything like that before.

What I am seeing is very small text that is not readable behind the logo. I can't read it because the logo hides part of the text. I assume that WebSavvy at the top middle of the page is the logo.

Not sure but I think this line is the one I'm referring to.

<dd><span class="icon"><a title="Weather Reports" href="/weather.htm" accesskey="W" tabindex="1"><img src="/2007/i/weather.png" height="44" width="47" alt="Weather Reports" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="News Search" href="/news.htm" accesskey="N" tabindex="2"><img src="/2007/i/news.png" height="44" width="48" alt="News Search" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="Shopping" href="/shopping.htm" accesskey="S" tabindex="3"><img src="/2007/i/shopping.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Shopping" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="Play Games" href="/games.htm" accesskey="G" tabindex="4"><img src="/2007/i/games.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Play Games" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span></span><a title="WebSavvy Directory" href="/" accesskey="H" tabindex="5"><img src="/2007/i/280x74.png" height="74" width="280" alt="WebSavvy Directory" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><span class="icon"><a title="Audio Search" href="/audio.htm" accesskey="A" tabindex="6"><img src="/2007/i/audio.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Audio Search" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="Media Search" href="/media.htm" accesskey="M" tabindex="7"><img src="/2007/i/images.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Media Search" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="Video Search" href="/video.htm" accesskey="V" tabindex="8"><img src="/2007/i/video.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Video Search" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span><a title="Movie Search" href="/movies.htm" accesskey="M" tabindex="9"><img src="/2007/i/movies.png" height="44" width="48" alt="Movie Search" /></a><span class="pipe">|</span></span></dd>

<dd>

[polarmate]

The links to articles eg on this page (http://www.websavvy.cc/directory/shopping.services/shopping/automotive.htm) gives me 404s.

[WebSavvy]

Yes, that's the whole top nav that puts those images at the top. Look at it and note there are no "words" there between any <a href=""></a>

So, I have no clue as to what you're seeing?

Anyone else seeing this? Because I'm not.

[polarmate]

I'm not seeing any text behind the logo.

Connie, increase the size of the text and see ifyou can read it.

[WebSavvy]

Yep, this I knew already. Just haven't had the chance to change the internal links from articles.php to articles.htm

I plan to do this tonight, right now I'm getting ready to eat dinner.

[Connie]

OK in looking closer, the text I'm seeing behind the logo is either alt text or from the title attribute. I suspect from the title attribute, but not sure.

I do know I did not see it before you added the title attribute to the images on each side of the logo.

[WebSavvy]

Yep, if there's an image ALT text present, and a title attribute on the link for the image (url) ... FF will display that in Blue while the image loads.

[Connie]

I did increase text size. It corresponds to either the alt attribute, or the title attribute of the graphics on either side of the logo.

Since I get a tool tip on mouse over I think it has to do with the title attribute. Additionally I did not see that before you added the title attribute to those images to the left and right of the logo.

I don't have any luck with screen captures, or I would give you one.

[Connie]

Deb has nothing to do with images loading. They are loaded when I see this.

The text I see behind the logo is
Directory
News
Media
Audio
Video

On mouse over here is what the title attribute tells me.

Directory Search
News Search
Media Search
Audio Search
Video Search

I guess on the other hand If I'm the only one seeing this, then ignore it.

I am pretty dumb but I do know the difference between alt text that is shown while an image is loading , and the title attribute displayed on mouseover with FF.

[WebSavvy]

Connie, that's the title text on the search buttons. Hover over them and you'll see it.

That's what I was saying, when it's loading those buttons sometimes pop up above the searchbox while the page is loading.

Then it looks like they're behind the logo. Then the searchbox fully loads and pulls those buttons down into position.

[Dave Hawley]

Deb, nice job it looks very nice. Only comment I have is the load time for the home page. On my high speed broadband connection it took close to 30 secs to download. IMO that's about 15 secs to long.

[WebSavvy]

Yeah, it's probably because of the google ads and the xml feeds. I plan to change those out tonight anyway. :)

[Dave Hawley]

Cool, post back when done and I'll clear my cache and give it another go. :)

Have you ever used internetseer dot com to give yourself a free weekly report of page load times etc? The price is right ;)

[Connie]

Deb you have not understood what I'm saying. Once an image loads you should not see alt text. What I'm talking about is after the page has fully loaded.

Just looked with IE. There is no text behind the logo with IE. However, the same text I'm seeing behind the logo with FF is beneath the logo in IE.

The text is in the same box as the search feature and just above where you would type your search phrase.

The graphic I mentioned earlier that was not showing up in "Todays News" with FF does display with IE.

It appears to me that you have a browser compatibility problem with your CSS file.

[WebSavvy]

That's odd to me because I have checked everything using IE, AOL, FF, and Opera -- every step of the way to make sure they all look exactly the same.

Each browser has its own CSS file because they all display font sizes differently and %width differently.

What version of IE are you using, Connie? Maybe this might help me narrow down what the problem is.

[WebSavvy]

Connie, the "Today's News" is an xml feed. Their feed doesn't validate so the missing image bit is from their end.

I've removed as much bad code as possible from their feed as I could using CaRP.

That's why I said, I plan to change those out tonight because their feeds aren't valid.

[Connie]

I use FF 1.04 and IE 6 with spt 2.

As I mentioned before the problem with FF did not start until you added the title attribute to the images on each side of the logo.

In IE 6 the page looks fine other than the Google add.

[WebSavvy]

OK, let me take those title attribs off and then have you look at it and see if it looks normal again?

The alt text was already there, so really don't need link title attribs too.

[WebSavvy]

OK, they're off of there now. Check it and see if it looks normal again? :)

[Connie]

Yep that took care of it. I would disagree that you don't need the title attribute. Unfortunately IE will display the alt text on mouse over. That is a bug in IE.

I have no Idea what those images on either side of your logo are pointing to from the image. The title attribute displays a tool tip for FF, just like IE displays the alt text on mouseover.

I guess I'm wrong but I thought the title attribute was par for the course in regards to accessibility. Especially for those using screen readers.

I don't use the title attribute on my blog for links in the right common navigation. They are screwed up with FF. Frankly never checked with IE.

Is it possible that either FF, or IE are not dealing with xhtml pages correctly?

[WebSavvy]

I don't know? Anything's possible, I imagine. :)

Let me add the title attribute to the image field itself Vs the image link. Maybe it might produce the tooltips without the side bugs?

[WebSavvy]

Try it now, Connie. The title attrib has been added to the image field. I can see tooltips and am not seeing a problem like you described a while ago.

[Connie]

That did it. :cheers:

[Zonirik]

Hey Websavvy. Your site looks great! I remember what it used to look like from the beginning. :cheers:

[Quadrille]

Wow! How things have changed over the years!
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://websavvy.cc

[WebSavvy]

Thanks Zonirik. :)

LOL @ Q. Yeah, some of the old designs are really BAD. :lol:
At least we're moving in a positive direction now and saving eyeballs. :floor:

[liloth]

Great job Deb!!

[WebSavvy]

Thanks, Paula! :)

[Dave Hawley]

It's missing one very important site though ;)

[WebSavvy]

LOL. No, it's not. heh heh. Your site is in the index, Dave -- it's just not on the public side yet.

I have about 250 misplaced sites (due to the restructure) and I am working on placing those in the most appropriate categories. This is all being done in the development db and then will be copied over to the production db. (it's how I always do things :D)

Anyway, give it about 2 days, and you should see yours there too.

:)

[Dave Hawley]

:cool:

[nickelamerson]

nice thanks.


________________
[Removed URL]

[Connie]

nickelamerson we do not allow you to use even a copy and past URL as a signature.

You are free to add your site to your profile.

[Blue]

That was his third strike.

[Connie]

He is banned now.

Actually it is a shame, because as far as I could tell, his site looked like a good resource for doing a IP look up.

[maninderwalia]

The Site is looking wonderful Deb.

[WebSavvy]

Thanks, Mani. But that's our last "new design."

I'm getting ready to put up a new one that's a lot better. The new one even involves a logo change. Say good-bye to the chunky blue letters and nerd tape. :D

I'm nearly finished with the new one -- it's been time consuming because it's actually 3 designs and an interactive user-interface. Visitors can use our preferences script and select which "theme" they want to use.

They'll also be able to set font size, font color, font face, and define their own accesskeys.

I'm really proud of the new design and can't wait to get it live. I'll be interested in feedback on that for areas that need to be improved. :)

[Comeran]

Actually I have been watching and love it. I can't wait to see what goes in place of the place holders.

Com-

[Arnabme]

I liked the WebSavvy logo on the top with the "E" on the opposite end. Thats cool.