Navigation Bar and SSI

[harv]

A common technique to allow for the same consistent
navigation bar on all your web pages is to code it
just once into an include file, and use server side
includes to call it in.

You need to give the calling pages an shtml suffix.

Some hosts allow you to use an htm suffix instead
of shtml but, where this is not possible, how do
you get over the problem that your index page must
remain as .htm (or .html)

Harvey

[pageoneresults]

Hi harv. I don't think your extension has to change for the index page. I use an FP Include which is somewhat different than SSI but its the same concept.

I've done enough reading on shtml to know that your included files need to be saved with that shtml extension. But, the pages they are included into can be whatever.

[Advisor]

I believe this has been discussed here somewhere before and the answer lies somewhere in the .htacess file. (At least for unix based servers I think.) Sorry, that's all I know!

Jill

[harv]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
your included files need to be saved with that shtml extension. But, the pages they are included into can be whatever.

No, it's the other way around: hence the problem

[pageoneresults]

If your server is already SSI enabled, all that needs to be done to call SSI to life from any web page is to give the web page a file name extension of .shtml instead of the usual .html. This will cause the SSI enabled server to scour the web page looking for comments that are, in fact, commands which tell the server to perform certain tasks before it allows the web page to be displayed. This process of prescouring (if that's a word) the page is known as parsing.Thanks for clarifying that harv. Do you use Front Page at all? Maybe you could use the FP Include feature even if you don't use FP.

I believe all you would need is a server with the FP extensions installed and this code here...

<!--webbot bot="Include" U-Include="file-name.htm" TAG="BODY" startspan -->

Using this method, allows you to keep all of your file names just as they are. You can use .htm or .html.

I wonder if it would work as long as the server had the FP extensions. I've never tried it, but harv, these work great! I've been using them since 1996 and have had zero problems.

[harv]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
. Do you use Front Page at all? Maybe you could use the FP Include feature even if you don't use FP.


I don't use Front Page and I seem to recall from
a posting a while ago that you must use Front
Page to upload files with the FP feature, you can't
use basic FTP.

[pageoneresults]

You must use Front Page to upload files with the FP feature, you can't use basic FTP.You are correct again and definitely on the ball! I've never used the FP publish feature as I make all of my changes via the Edit feature in IE with FP as the default editor. All changes are real time, no need to add the extra step of uploading nor do you need to worry about the FP extensions since you are live on the server.

I wanted to give the .shtml a try but didn't feel comfortable with the way everything had to be set up. So, what did I do? Went on another one of my quests and figured out how to do it using .asp. The only drawback is when viewing the pages in FP normal or preview modes, you cannot see the content of the includes. Makes it more difficult to maintain visualization but I figured out a workaround. I just keep a browser window open and refresh each time I make a change, just as effective. The cleanliness of the page is growing on me...

Testing .asp Includes Screen Shot of FP View (http://www.davidsonstaffing.com/images/screen-shot-davidson-031602.gif)

The Rendered Result (http://www.davidsonstaffing.com/site-map.asp)

Here are what the .asp include tags look like...

<!-- #include file="bottom.asp" -->
<!-- #include file="left.asp" -->
<!-- #include file="top.asp" -->

The includes must also reside in a page that has the .asp extension. Just like the SSI and .shtml. I feel more comfortable with the .asp, I don't know why though.

Now remember, the spider sees everything you see when viewing the source code of that page. I've spidered the page and all is just fine 200.

By the way, this is another site built using CSS and Absolute Positioning. I just can't go back, I can't! When you view the screen shot above, take a close look at where the content is. There are two .asp comment tags; one is the header, the other is the left navigation. Then there is the main content which is viewable.

What am I getting at? There are three <div> tags that control the look and feel of that page, just three! Remember years ago when it might have taken multiple tables and cells nested to acheive a similar effect? ;)

[harv]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
The only drawback is when viewing the pages in FP normal or preview modes, you cannot see the content of the includes.



This seems to the big drawback with server side
includes - the inability to view the actual content
during development. Are there any tools which
provide this ?





What am I getting at? There are three <div> tags that control the look and feel of that page, just three! Remember years ago when it might have taken multiple tables and cells nested to acheive a similar effect? ;)


Very impressive

[pageoneresults]

This seems to the big drawback with server side includes - the inability to view the actual content during development. Are there any tools which provide this?Hello harv, I'm investigating this one right now. The other issue with SSI is that those included pages cannot have any <html>, <body> etc. tags. They must be pure content.

If you are working with CSS this can get a little confusing since you cannot link your style sheet in the includes, they inherit the styles from the page that they are included. When you view the includes in FP or any other WYSIWYG editor, no styles are present and they get a little ugly. You also need to make sure that any styles being used are part of the include. For example; if you are using <span> to assign classes to bold text, then those <span> classes need to be in your includes.

The workaround? Deal with it!

P.S. Thanks for the impressive compliment. I get goose bumps each time I look at the new sites that I am building using CSS. The possibilities are endless!

[harv]

Hi pageoneresults,

I think some of your statements are not
correct - but your conclusion is.

>>The other issue with SSI is that those included
>>pages cannot have any <html>, <body> etc. tags.
>>They must be pure content.

No, not true.

>>If you are working with CSS this can get a little
>> confusing since you cannot link your style
>> sheet in the includes

Yes, you can and I think you are saying that later, viz
"You also need to make sure that any styles
being used are part of the include"


>>When you view them in FP or any other
>>WYSIWYG editor, no styles are present and
>>they get a little ugly.

Yes, it's IF no styles are present that you
cannot view them correctly


Harvey

[pageoneresults]

Hi harv! I did some testing this past weekend with the .asp includes and they did not work when they were set up as a regular html document complete with <html> and <body> tags. I ended up with duplicate content on my pages.

When I stripped everything out but content, they worked fine and inherited the styles from the page that they were included on.

I wonder if this is an .asp issue and not the same with .shtml.

[harv]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
Hi harv! I did some testing this past weekend with the .asp includes and they did not work when they were set up as a regular html document complete with <html> and <body> tags. I ended up with duplicate content on my pages.

I wonder if this is an .asp issue and not the same with .shtml.

Sorry, I was referring to ordinary .html includes being
called from a .shtml document.

So you may well be right ( - and I am also right !)



Harvey

[3DHomeWorld.com]

Hi....

I have an issue with ssi, I was wondering if you can help me...

up until now I've always used frames, personally for mostly search engine and message board reasons I hate them...

I recently tried ssi...
(you don't deserve a link from here bud... Doug)

although not all the graphics work properly, the flash inbetween pages I find really frustrating for example, it still seems soo much slower and clumsier (sp?) in general than frames...

(no link from my forums bud.)

I would really love to break the frames.... but currently I feel I have no choice but to stay locked in them...

can anybody help?
it would be muchly appreciated ;)

thanks

Ian Harvie

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums 3d! :hi:

I am not sure I follow what the question is? Flash is going to be slow no matter what you do. As far as the search engines are concerned, getting rid of frames is the best bet, but having content(words) on your pages is better. Right now, I do not see any words for a spider to index anyway.

[3DHomeWorld.com]

ermmm.... *lol*

I am not sure I follow what the question is?
question: if ssi is so good why is it sooo much slower than frames on my site ?

Flash is going to be slow no matter what you do
misunderstanding 1: I do not have any flash on my site.. I know something that rymes with site, if anyone were to ask my opinion of Flash. My navigation 'flashes' on reload... I thought server side includes didn't refresh?

having content(words) on your pages is better.
Misunderstanding 2: I have almost 3,000 messages of content which is already being spidered, I hardly call that lacking in content, yes I have much more still to add but I would rather not have someone follow a link to part of the navigation frame or in this case do a search on google and come up with this [url](no link from here bud.)

Misunderstanding 3: I'm sorry to say this but I feel a smidgen on the antagonized side, I know why frames are so bad and I find it awkwardly annoying that you cant seem to understand my situation, neither did you seem to recognize the fact I dont use flash at all.. the flash plugin isn't that hard to discover... I am not stupid, maybe I have posted in the wrong forum entirely.

[ihelpyou]

sheesh 3d, at least I recognized you and welcomed you. Can't say you would be elsewhere..... right?

Thanks for your sarcastic remarks. I don't take well to that at all, especially when I am providing these boards for all to learn from at no cost.

Someone else can answer your questions.

Have a great day! :)

[3DHomeWorld.com]

I apologize for being so far off base with my comments... I never realised you were so stupid and will remember in future.

Yes I would have been welcomed in most forums...

and dont thank me for the sarcasm.. its a free gift ;)



nother quick question ;)
All posted text is the property of ihelpyou™ Services.

Do you often take credit for other people interlectual property ihelpyou? what makes that disclaimer any different from the ones hidden in spyware/adware?

I wonder :hi:

<<<<< You are a real prize there Buddy. Please find another board to post on. Thanks!

[ihelpyou]

I have only banned one other member from here since last June. You are now banned.

BTW, all forums have the EXACT same claim. You post here and it is my property, don't ya know?

[Nossie]

Get outa here Bud. I'm tired and don't wish to put up with you.

Leave please.

Leave now or I will contact your ISP.
Thanks
Doug

[Scott666]

hey.. did nossie say that? *lol*

poor him *lol*

ok ok I'll leave now... hehe

but why did you ban poor me? because I questioned your opinions?

thats sad....

and you americans go on about freedom of speach so much *lol*

take care,

I luv yah really ;)

Did you read the terms when you signed up? If you did then you know there is NO flaming allowed in here. Get out. Last warning. (Doug)

[Scott666]

but but but..

who did I flame? *lol*

what is your definition of flaming..

a small disagreement ?

I fall before you and humbley request that I not be reported to my isp(s) after all there are only another 200+ to choose from...

oh woe is me
woe... woe.. oh woe...

ah well I'm really getting bored now...

I love your attitude doug, I wish I was as fascist like you but humbly I havent even got to little napolean stage yet...

[dilbert]

I feel you have treated 3d unfairly. He is only voicing his opinion, and what you have done contravenes the right of free speech.

[Pandora]

I agree with Dilbert, it doesn't come across to me as if 3d had done anything wrong - maybe you Americans just take things differently from us Brits.

[pageoneresults]

I'll have to say this has been quite humourous watching this person sign in under different usernames and have a conversation with themselves. I say just let the thread go and let them be.

By the way, a great big welcome to...

3dHomeWorld.com aka... Nossie aka... Scott666 aka... dilbert aka... Pandora.

If you have any other questions related to SSI's, please post them here in this thread, thanks!

[dilbert]

I'm sorry, but I am not Nossie or Scott or 3d or anyone like that. I am in no way associated wiht him, and I think you should get your facts straight before you go shooting your mouth off. check the ip addresses of you don't believe me

[Scott666]

actually no

pageoneresults...

I am 3dhomeworld.com aka Nossie (was) aka scott666

I can not vouch for the others I'm afraid

question to Doug Heil

are you any relation to Zieg Heil?

I'm curious ;)

[Pandora]

sorry but I am nothing to do with 3d homeworld - i just didn't agree with your views - also if you can tell our isp addresses surely you know that I am no-one else

[Scott666]

I honestly dont know who these people are.... I find it strange that if you had any idea about ip adresses then you would know that its highly unlikely that all of 'me' could have been logged in at once

unless not only do I have a serious schizophrenia tendency but I can also jump to other lines, computers and modems all in the space of a few minutes

since you feel that you dont mind letting 'me' talk to myself then I'm sure you wont mind me attaching something....

I have something else to give you Doug,

disclamer although the following may look like Doug as bin laden, really in fact its not... and any resemblance is purely fictional and coincidental... since of course Doug steals all interlectual copyright of these posts, again this fictional-not-Doug portrait now belongs to him as a free gift...

have a nice day ;)

[Scott666]

http://www.3dhomeworld.com/images/doug.jpg

[pageoneresults]

Hey Doug, nice pic! The turban and the beard can do wonders. Lookin' a little chunky around the mid section!

[pageoneresults]

Hey, where is Birkoff and thekeytolife at? Since I can't see IP's, that is Doug's department, I'm going to assume there may be some tag teaming going on.

Hehehe, I used to have so much fun with tag teamers at the Gn'R forums. If I could see IP's, I'd have a whole lot more fun! ;)

Hey Scott666, if I send you my pic, could you do some wonders with it like you did for Doug?

P.S. Hey Nossie, nice little site you guys/gals got over there!

[Scott666]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
Hey, where is Birkoff and thekeytolife at? Since I can't see IP's, that is Doug's department, I'm going to assume there may be some tag teaming going on.


*sigh* I just wrote a really nice message and then IE crashed...

so I'll be a little shorter this time ;)
well done page one... although not because we wish to noise you lot up :cool:

if you arent being sarcastic... I'd fire up Photoshop 7 again for you if you have any ideas...

I really appreciate your comments about my site pageone and would also appreciate any constructive critisizm you may have on improving it.

Doug,
I wont be two faced and suddenly say I agree with your disclaimer... but I admit that if people choose to agree to it then that is their decision... although I wont admit to flaming you I did react badly to your reply, in the posts afterwards I used what ammo I was given to put you in a bad light... I admit now on hindsight that I was being a little childish in my remarks and although I might not have found your information useful, it was a greeting and I should have took it for what it was, I should have expanded my situation in a more positive way and not suddenly turned against you like I did.

I am not a malicious person at heart and I hope that the information I posted previously was found informative and useful... I would like to continue using this forum in a more constructive manner and wish to ask that you restore my original username... although I am able to sign up more or less as many as I wish, I do prefer my own... and even I'm getting confused with my aliases...

I can not vouch for the other parties in this thread (Pandora and dilbert) but although I did ask them for their opinion I never provoked them to post in the manner that they did.

This is an apology of sorts, but one because I believe we started off on a bad note, and I'd rather we sorted it out on a good one.

yours,

Ian Harvie
aka Scott666
aka (\)ossie
aka 3dhomeworld.com

[ihelpyou]

Good Ian. I'm/we are happy to have you here! :thumb:

I think you can simply signup the old username again. If not, let me know.

[Scott666]

I Doug...

you've banned the ip adress I use for my fav isp...

would it be possible for you to restore that one for me?


or could it be my cookies?

thanks.
Ian.

[ihelpyou]

hmm. Okay, I took off that IP but I don't think that's it. Try just registering again the old name. I can't pull up that name anymore to change it.

[Scott666]

no...

thats fine thanks :)

even after your message this ip series wouldnt access the site but it would appear to be working fine now....

will sign up again,

thanks again,
Ian.

[3DHomeWorld.com]

Originally posted by pageoneresults
[B]

Hehehe, I used to have so much fun with tag teamers at the Gn'R forums. If I could see IP's, I'd have a whole lot more fun! ;)


Pageone...

I'd be quite happy to give you my ip adress if you wished you know .....

::innocent angelic smile::

hehe

;)

(\).