way more expensive & maybe

[chinook]

Ok , we have been on the new Adwords for a few weeks now and it is way more expensive and maybe not the great alternative to overture. We noticed that some of the keywords that are not in any demand (for sure) are still costing us over $2.00 per click when really they should be a nickel or so. I would love to hear additional opinions on the adwords select program.
Wolf

:D
:o:
:)
:cool:

[ihelpyou]

Anyone else have anything on this?

I do know that if you put quotes around the phrases you want, you will only be shown on the exact phrase you want, which might reduce your costs a little.

[kneelsit]

Chinook,

I agree entirely that Google's cavalier attitude to pricing and their 'take it or leave it' attitude is way over the top. I did look at their adwords set up carefully and went through it to see what the cost would be. At 70c. per phrase (or more) this worked out at almost the total price of one of my products, since it takes over 1000 visits to generate one sale.

Currently I pay overture 5c. per click for a number of chosen keywords. Others are ahead of me at 6c and up to 9c. but that's o.k. since I still come in at no.7 or 8. on the first page.

As you can see that works out at roughly $50 per sale - a reasonable price I am willing to pay.

[haystack]

Hi all,
here are a few tips for improving those Adwords Select results.

First, if you're starting with your Overture list of keywords you'll need to repluralize the terms as needed.

Next, be sure to at least include quotes around results if not [] brackets to narrow the amount of unqualified traffic seeing your ads.

And third, put together an extensive set of negative keywords for your listings to prevent your ads from showing for irrelevant or untargeted search terms. I've put together a starter list of negative keywords on my site for sale if you'd like to get a jumpstart on this.

One of the keys to improving cost per click is improving your click through rate. Following the steps above will help you narrow the reach of your ads which improves CPC, and thus lowers your average click through cost while improving ad rank.

-Ed

:hi:

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Haystack! :hi:

Thanks for the tips!

[chinook]

Okay all of the above is good advice but how do you explain the following:

On overture we pay .09 for "web hosting calgary" but on Google
we pay
[web hosting Calgary] 3 192 1.5% $2.84 $8.52 3.8

Calgary is a great place BUT I just can't believe the google algorithm that says this is the level I need to go to in order to appear. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

[chinook]

Can we rename them gougel ?

[haystack]

<<Okay all of the above is good advice but how do you explain the following:
On overture we pay .09 for "web hosting calgary" but on Google
we pay
[web hosting Calgary] 3 192 1.5% $2.84 $8.52 3.8 >>

Yep, here's the story:
Overture's system is great for bidding on regionally targeted terms because they tend to be very cheap. In your case, the term "web hosting Calgary" is obviously many times more valuable than "web hosting" yet you get it for a fraction of the cost. This in a major weakness in Overture's business model since you're probably willing to pay more than 9 cents for such a targeted term.

Google's system tries to close this loophole by making the targeted terms compete against the more generic terms. So, in your case you're competing against:

calgary
hosting
web
"hosting calgary"
hosting calgary
"web calgary"
web calgary
"web hosting"
web hosting
"web hosting calgary"
[web hosting calgary]
web hosting calgary

I might be missing a few terms but I'm sure you get the point by now. So, you're minimum cost per click is $0.88. I can assure you that "calgary" isn't the problem.

You're getting a fairly high click through rate of 1.5% but you've only had 192 impressions at this point. If your click through rate holds steady, your costs will drop by 1/3 after 1000 impressions since the first 1000 impressions are based on a .5% click through rate.

So, Overture is a much better deal for your situation. If you can turn a positive ROI on your projected cost per click of $0.95 for such a targeted term you're on the right track.

I've had my best successes using "" wildcards with a well researched set of negative keywords, and offer a version of that for sale on my site.

I'm not sure I'd call it gouging. It's kind of an automated way to generate a market rate for targeted terms.

-Ed

[ihelpyou]

hey haystack, you can fix your signature link using vbcode. :)

[chinook]

case, the term "web hosting Calgary" is obviously many times more valuable than "web hosting" No , I don't see why a more exclusive term would be worth more. That logic doesn't work for me.

I am not a math wizard but I don't get where the $.88 and $.95 come from. They charged my account and thus my credit card for $8.52 for three clicks. To me that is excessive

[haystack]

<<No , I don't see why a more exclusive term would be worth more. That logic doesn't work for me. >>

Don't you think your chances of acquiring a new hosting account from a search for "calgary web hosting" is higher than for the term "web hosting?" The term "calgary web hosting" must be worth a LOT more than 9 cents for your business. Overture's system just isn't designed to charge you more than that, which is great for you, but it's killing their profit potential.

<<I am not a math wizard but I don't get where the $.88 and $.95 come from. They charged my account and thus my credit card for $8.52 for three clicks. To me that is excessive>>

Sorry, I wasn't very clear about that. I figured out the $.88 by mocking up a new campaign in Google for the search terms discussed earlier to figure out what the entry point is. If you set the max bids for really low Google's system will tell you the minimum bids to be listed. In your case it was 88 cents.

Now, the $0.95. That comes from the fact that you're getting charged $2.84 today per click but your click through rate is 1.5%. Google's system starts you out at a .5% click through rate and once you've had 1000 impressions for that term they adjust your bids based on your relevancy. So, since your site is getting 3x the click through rate they start you at, your price per click will drop to $0.95 or you'll move up in rank, or a combination of both.

This is a pretty tough concept to explain but Google's FAQ does a pretty good job and Page-Zero.com offers a special report on using Adwords select that explains this as well. I was a contributor to that report.

There is a LOT of math built into the Google system but it has done a lot to automate Pay Per Click. I think it's an important system to figure out because they're probably going to chip away at Overture and Looksmart over time since they can monetize a higher percentage of search terms and do so at a higher cost per click.

-Ed