LS UK becomes Espotting Affiliate Link Bank

[MakeMeTop]

I've posted this at WMW (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum7/529.htm) as well. LS UK has just started to mix Espotting PPC links in to their main directory. No, I'm not talking about the sponsored links at the top of the LS UK results - I'm referring to Espotting Titles and Descriptions being thrown into the LS UK algo and being mixed in with LookListings and standard directory listings.

This means that you can appear in LS UK with an Espotting affiliate link for search phrases you have not chosen with Espotting. See this example (http://www.looksmart.co.uk/SearchResults.jsp?lan=uk&key=search+engines&x=12&y=5). Every listing on the first page (bar 1 LookListing) is an Espotting affiliate link! You can see the same thing on loads of other searches. Espotting PPC results filling the SERPS under the 'Selected Sites from LookSmart' heading! In this example, I have not bid for the phrase 'search engines' on Espotting yet my Espotting listing appears in the STANDARD LS UK listings with an Espotting affiliate link :(

These results are also now showing on NTL and BTOpenWorld. So, now not only have the LS UK results become less relevant after their recent readjustment but we have to pay for the priviledge. IMHO - this stinks

[ihelpyou]

WOW. Not only are screwing the ESspotting affiliates, but are also screwing the directory listed sites to boot!!

They are soooooo low. Now, I believe they have lowered themselves all the way down to be called a scumlord.

Disgusting.

[nuzelonde]

LOL. Scumlords - like it.

Never trust a search engine. Nice to see they aren't hiding their real motives anymore.

[MakeMeTop]

Judging from what has happened in MSN.com with L$ affiliate links being added from the LS directory to MSN's directory listings, I would imagine that we are about to see MSN UK's directory listings filled with Espotting listings which will bury many standard directory sites. This will earn LS UK affiliate fees and we will have to pay for extra non-related click throughs.

If this does happen, it means:

a) You can get into MSN UK by opening an account for £25.00 with Espotting.
b) LookSmart directory listings are worthless.
c) LookListings are worthless.

Having spent a LOT of money on getting multiple listings for clients and seeing the possibility of these being thrown down the drain and anyone paying Espotting 5p per click leapfrogging these sites - I will be looking very carefully at LS UK's Terms and Conditions.

Them signing up to become a PPC affiliate and then sticking all the PPC's listings in their directory over the listings which LS customers have paid to be reviewed may be allowable - but strikes me as tasting of extremely sharp practice.

I will reserve my full judgement until I have spoken to people on Monday - but I think this could break into a major scandal unless something is done about it.

I, for one, will not take this lightly or silently - nor will my clients :(

[ihelpyou]

Amen to that!

This whole LS thing stinks of high dollars in a big way. It smells in every way it could possibly smell.

I am having a hard time finding anything good to come of Looksmart and the changes. All I can come with is that the current clients of LS in their directory are FU****!

Boy, have I ever been wrong over the past 2 years about Looksmart? As much as I have praised them and promoted them to clients, etc, and to have them stab all of us in the back?

Another scene and highly likely is that they are VERY much hurting and we are seeing the last cry for help. No other answer makes any sense.

[JuniorHarris]

If LS was in trouble and taking on water, the last thing they needed to do was put another hole in the bottom of the boat.

Just think about all the customers who got bait and switched, thinking they were paying a single fee, but now are forced to participate in PPC!~ :eek: The real question, will be the impact on MSN...obviously there was an agreement between LS and MSN for MSN to receive directory listings, but does/did it grant LS sole responsibility to decide how to deliver these results and their quality?

Looks like trouble if LS must resort to PPC, I just hope they don't bring MSN down with them. With many users leery of PPC search engine results and quality, it might even push more users over to Google. Maybe the best thing for MSN would be to drop LS listings all together!~;)

[ihelpyou]

Yes JH, that might be the best thing but I have to believe that LS informed MSN of the changes months ahead of time and got the Aokay from them. Actually, this may be the doings of MSN anyway.

No matter how they spin it, this hurts all involved except those sites with the bucks. They are salivating at the thought of top listings now and ONLY because of the bucks.

[JuniorHarris]

It would appear that they are setting the stage to allow deep pockets to rule the serps. Smart in a way, since the PPC model is designed to allow a more consistent cash flow...more traffic more cash!~ But let us not forget the dark side as well, fraudulent click-thrus and scams to drain partners are bound to flourish as competitors search for new ways to undermine their competition.

[MakeMeTop]

>I have to believe that LS informed MSN...

I believe that MSN was informed about LookListings which has been around as a PPC option for a long time. I also believe that MSN was told this would not effect the editorial nature of the listings. If you look at what has happened in the US, LookSmart have become affiliates of certain companies and then written in their normal editorial style a title and description for that entry. LookSmart get paid for referrals from Commission Junction - the site is not paying per click! LookSmart always had the right to add whatever sites it liked - and has now chosen to write additional entries to its' directory from which it also earns money. Not particularly edifiying - but within their rights. They have at least written proper directory entries, within categories etc.

LS UK have not done this. They have taken the Espotting database and have just whammed the listings into their own DB without changing the titles, descriptions or entering the sites into a specific category (apart from the categories held by Espotting) - whacked on an affiliate link and away you go.

I'm not sure how often they are going to do this with the Espotting DB - but it is not in real time. On this search (http://www.looksmart.co.uk/SearchResults.jsp?lan=uk&key=computer+rental&x=18&y=5) for computer rental - the top site is one of my clients who we've removed from Espotting to see what happened on LS UK - but the LS/Espotting affiliate link is still there - who is going to pay for that click? Not me :)

This is just a greedy way to sneak additional revenue without informing clients. Now it may be that we will not be paying per click and Espotting are paying LS UK a per click payment with that not being passed on to clients to build their traffic. But I do think that MSN have not agreed for another SEs results (apart from LS) to be mixed up with LS written content in their directory.

[ihelpyou]

wow, ain't it funny how LS is trying soooo hard to mix things up in a big way and trying to confuse everyone about what is what? Totally mind-boggling the way they are going about things.

Nothing is clear. Nothing is spelled out. They simply change when they get a whim with not a clear sense of what is going on.

Boy will it be interesting when they tell us the 'details' on the day of the US launch, or the day after. Also interesting that the email stated no one will be getting an advanced email to give the details. The details will be given UPON launch. LOL

[Great-1]

I hope MSN were informed about this change. That way I've got at least a chance of keeping my top 10 rank on MSN. Without that I'd be in a spot of bother - I wonder if I could sue LS for loss of business :D

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by MakeMeTop
I will reserve my full judgement until I have spoken to people on Monday - but I think this could break into a major scandal unless something is done about it.Should we be calling the tabloids yet Barry?

[MakeMeTop]

They are doing something about it :)

The results are not going to appear on MSN (apparently). Other problems are being 'resolved'.

We'll see.

[Kal]

I think the scandal has already broken. Did you see the following snippet from Pandia.com's latest newsletter Barry?

-------------

/////LookSmart becomes your affiliate

(April 3 2002) A lot of commercial sites run affiliate programs, where other sites can sign up and get a percentage of every sale that is a result from someone clicking on a special affiliate link.

The Planet Ocean Search Engine News newsletter reports that LookSmart has started signing up as an affiliate of customers that has paid to be listed in the LookSmart directory.

LookSmart then changes the URL of the relevant directory listing to its own special affiliate link, generating some extra revenue in addition to the fee this customer has paid for inclusion!
---------------

This is the same thing right?

[highman]

mmmm.......

Im not appy with this situation at all, one of our recent clients which has been added to LS UK now has espotting links appearing in searches in LS uk, its not really espotting im not happy with its LS....

When you carry out a search for the company name you get two listings returned, guess which one is at the top, the one that costs per click, not the directory listing.

I have spoken to espotting who say they are at the testing stage and nothing has been confirmed yet.
No comment on wether the espotting listings would appear on msn.co.uk

Next call LS UK

[highman]

Our site is being returned for searches at looksmart with the espotting affiliate link that we havnt paid for !!

[Alan Perkins]

Please explain that last comment a bit more, highman...

[highman]

for terms we have not paid for at espotting

carry out a search at looksmart and the site is returned in the LS serp, using the espotting affiliate link

this is because the term appears in the espotting title but we did not bid on it

one example would be the company name


espotting are on to it

[kneelsit]

Just got this official notification from LS

This administrative email was sent to admin@kneelsit.com based on the information in your LookSmart account. Dear Valued Customer:

LookSmart has launched Small Business Listings, our first pay-per-click product for small businesses. This new, improved product replaces both Submit and Site Promote. Full details are available at http://listings.looksmart.com.

Because you're a valued customer who submitted a listing before April 9, 2002, we've automatically upgraded you to Small Business Listings.
Your account has already been updated and is ready for you to log in.
We've waived the $49 set-up fee.
We'll give you $300 in free clicks. Each month for the next 20 months you'll receive a $15 credit in your account – starting today.

To receive your $300 in free clicks, you must activate your new LookSmart account before July 11, 2002. Log in to your account to get started. Activation is completely free – and once you activate you can cancel anytime. Activate today and get a bonus coupon. (Details below.)


More about Small Business Listings
Small Business Listings introduces pay-per-click pricing for cost-effective customer acquisition.
$49 per listing set-up fee.
$0.15 cost-per-click (CPC) – flat rate, no auctions.
You control your monthly spend based on your budget.

Small Business Listings gives you more of what you're looking for – more traffic, better targeting, easier management.
Get even more qualified leads by appearing in Featured Listings, the top tier of search results on LookSmart.com, Juno, and many other partners. Of course, you'll continue to be distributed on MSN, AltaVista, Netscape, Prodigy, CNN.com and over 300 ISPs.
Select 10 keywords or phrases at no extra cost.
Set up your listing once and let it manage itself. No need to monitor bids or placements.

We're excited to offer you this new product. We know you'll find Small Business Listings to be a great marketing investment for your business.

Sincerely,
The LookListings Small Business Team

P.S. If you have additional questions about how Small Business Listings affects your current listing, log in to your account and visit our FAQ for current customers.



Greg

[kneelsit]

I have to believe that LS informed MSN...

A recent proposal from M$ regarding leasing of Windows Office XP? rather than outright purchase might be connected here.

Testing the waters first with this scam to see the reaction.?