I Just Read A Post From.......

[ihelpyou]

the owner of another forum that read..."members here get tired of having to answer the same questions over and over"

Let me tell you all right now, especially for all the visitors here that are not yet members, We DO NOT care how many times a question might be asked.

The big point is, EVERY site is different and as a consequence, the answers could be different also depending on the site!

Sure, we want you to search these forums for everything you have a question about, but if you cannot find the answer for YOUR site, by all means, PLEASE ask the question.

We are here to help you. That is what these forums are about.

[Web Witch]

We are here to help you. That is what these forums are about. Yeah, and have fun while we are at it:)

WW

[ihelpyou]

Yeppers!

That is the ticket!

The big ol key!

The big cahunna!

The huge anchalada!

and?

[rmueller]

What A Kewl Tool!:p

[MazY]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
the owner of another forum that read..."members here get tired of having to answer the same questions over and over"

I find this mind-set from forum owners so frustrating. It matters not one jot whether you get asked the same question every damned day as far as I'm concerned. If the user feels the need to ask it then the user obviously has a genuine need for doing so. That may be anything from not understanding a previous answer to just being too lazy or not having enough time to search through the entire forum. None of these are faults - they are everyday traits of life!

It really does get me - the "we are providing you a service and if you don't like what our .experts have to say then move on" approach. No expert is an expert without people who need their advice.

I'm going to take a guess which forum that you read that quote from and mention that the sanctimonious mightier-than-thou tone which it adopts has turned more than a good handful of newbies away wondering what they ever did wrong.

I hope to God that we never go down that route and that we maintain the free for all, open, relaxed and informal approach.

[ihelpyou]

Agreed. You are right with your guess. ;)

Nope. These forums will Never adopt that attitude or mindset or "bigger than life" thingy.

The questions are what makes a forum and it's members. Without them, we would not be a forum but strictly a web site full of information only that visitors can read.

Geez, that sounds like a regular site that we see on the net.

Forums are not like regular web sites. They are not suppose to be just information only type things. Those sites are out there by the millions and they serve their good purpose.

Forums should not only be a source for lots of info, but also a source for "fun repoire" among all the members. Exchanging information freely and answering and asking questions. Period.

[Web Witch]

....I remembering going to a Delphi forum on DHTML and another on Flash (I think) and being put down for not being at the TOP and knowing the most of the 'in' things in these discussions. Heck I spent about a week of abuse there and moved on....

[ihelpyou]

oh yea, have also came across a few like that. Ya just don't stay very long at those types.

[Web Witch]

....this is why this is a great forum - we help all, don't talk down to others & consider the other possibilities of the ever changing Internet. What a great place to share your opinions about SEO and have a little fun while you are at it!:)

WW

[ihelpyou]

Well, I think we may talk down about the many spammers that get ranks... :D

[Advisor]

Oh now, you folks are making it very, very hard for me to make fun of you any more! We have to be nice and helpful now do we? You mean we can no longer say to the newbie who asks a question, "Hey dope, what are you stupid or sumthin??? Don't you know nuthin'?"

If this is the case, I'll just have to find somewhere else to abuse people. :idea: But wait! I know just where I can go!!! In fact, I do believe I've even been bashed there myself!!!

Jill (bashee and basher)

[ihelpyou]

:green:

I would of driven out to California and smashed some heads if I was you. :hit:

[MazY]

Originally posted by webwhiz
In fact, I do believe I've even been bashed there myself!!!
Jill (bashee and basher)

For real?

[Advisor]

Oh yeah! It was quite fun actually. I go there and read it all over again every now and then when I'm feeling blue! You can read the whole bashing episode at:

http://searchengineforums.com/Forum36/HTML/000015.html

Be sure to go to the second page to read my rebuttal! The whole thing had gone on for about a month before anyone ever notified me of what was happening. Finally a couple of my Rank Write readers emailed me when things really got out of hand. In fact, this was how I met Doug. He personally emailed me with his support!

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Oh yea MazY. I could not believe it.

Jill has her articles published at www.Workz.com I believe once a month. ANyway, a member there made a post referencing her article and just tore it apart for no good reason.

After that, the members started posting right and left about what they did not like, etc about it.

THis includes the OWNER of the forums. NONE of them had a clue that Jill and Heather speak at the Danny Sullivan conferences. One coming up in San Fran in two weeks.

They were/are completely clueless over there about many things and have lost MANY members over the last year. I pity the new webmasters there who are looking for answers and sometimes given very wrong ones. We do have a few members here who try to keep them on the straight path every now and then. ;)

<added>After re-reading the thread, the original poster simply referenced the article and brought it up for discussion</added> ... then the bashing began. Of course, the biggest basher was the owner who never apoligized.

[ihelpyou]

yea, that is it. Could not find it. :)

[Advisor]

Also, I do believe many of the people ripping the article hadn't even bothered to read it! They were just commenting on other people's comments. It was like a big game of telephone where everything got taken out of context and exaggerated.

I was just looking at some of the emails I got afterwards though. A whole lot of great support came in, which was cool. But the forum owner who shall remain nameless (but who's name is in the name of the domain!) never said a word to me. He even said some pretty dumb comments within the forum itself. The moderator of that particular forum did apologize, however, which showed he was a real man.

Jill

[Advisor]

Hehehe...I especially loved the post saying, "Who is this woman, anyway...?" hehehe

Jill

[MazY]

OK. So having returned from reading the thread in its entirety, I shall now pass my judgement. :D

Firstly, the extract "I dunno. Maybe I've lost the plot. Just aggrevates me that a person like this jumps into the fray, throws her weight about for all of one pretty lame article, and then disappears again, while we research every single day on this damned illusive topic, and she gets printed!" speaks volumes to me. It wasn't about the article. It was about a few often self-proclaimed experts having to feel that their own "expertise" had been passed over by Jill getting "printed" and not them.

I wouldn't have actually minded had the arguments raised been valid ones. They were not. They were based on supposition and assumptions of how they personally perceived the article. Not on the actual content.

Now, I shall also add at this point, in my own self-proclaiming manner that over the last few days, I have been reading a lot of the RankWrite articles. (Yes, those mysterious hits you keep getting are me.)

Not only am I impressed with the facts contained within them but I am more impressed with the literary style. (The latter is something that I rarely feel these days.) Not that Jill needs my praise. I am more than certain that she knows her worth without that. However, to finalise. To actually have access to someone so gifted, via the forum, is something that I personally consider a bonus that one rarely encounters.

There, I'm done. They are guilty. Book 'em!

[ihelpyou]

:green: :green:



:bouncy:

[Advisor]

LOL...I just read the whole thing again too. It's funny, every time I do, it gets my adrenaline going. Especially when I read my rebuttal! I had meant at the time to answer some of their other posts, but never got around to it. Now, I'm kinda glad. I don't think I every could have out done my original rebuttal.

And to you, Mazy, wow! Thank you for that praise. I have really been enjoying your writing style in these forums, so coming from you, that was a real compliment! (What...no blushing smilie?)

The great thing about writing for Rank Write is how much fun Heather and I have doing it, and I really think that shows through. Like in today's issue, after I sent my rough draft to Heather, she wrote back, "Wow, it sounds like you had fun writing this!" And the thing is, I did, and I always do! I'm never satisfied with an issue unless I've felt like I've gone the extra mile to discuss whatever issue we're discussing. My sister recently told me that she uses my answers as a guage to judge how much info other people give her when she asks questions. She'll think, well, gee...that was *almost* as much info as Jill would have given..!

Jill

[ihelpyou]

I re-read it as well.

Seems to me that all who were bashing upfront eventually apologized except for ONE. Guess who that was.

Even a member who is also a member here gave his apologies. They read the article and made immediate assumptions.

I am sure after a little research, they all recognize what Jill is about now. Except for ONE. ... go figure.

Kind of funny that the saying always was, "if you don't like the way I run these forums, then go open up your own"

Heard that one MANY times. Ya know what? I DID! Ya know what else? We will be here LONG after they are gone.

Sorry about that gals/guys, gets me upset thinking about what happened over there with them and myself.

[MazY]

I have a theory about quality authors. If I can look at a piece of literary work, whether that be a newsletter, an in-depth article, etc. and say "I know who wrote that." then as far as I am concerned that is the sign of a good quality author.

Now, not that I am entirely comfortable placing my own literary skills into the same category as yours, I know full well through experience that I can write anywhere I like on the web without telling my partner. My partner is always able to tell that I have written it, regardless of whether I sign it or not. The same is true with your work. I can now spot it a mile away.

I think you have to have an interest in writing, to a reasonable extent, to be able to detect that almost "hidden trademark" but I find that it does always exist.

As much as I love your style - I still hate the fact that you have made it and I haven't! :D

[Advisor]

Mazy, you've hit the nail on the head. And that kind of writing style that you can instantly recognize is a type of branding. That unique, personal style that shows your personality. It's so great to be able to do that!

I too can recognize my partner's writing a mile away even if she didn't sign it! And she can probably do the same for me. I'd say that my writing has changed somewhat over the years. I've learned a lot from Heather who is a professional. I've learned to tighten it up a bit, but I think my general style has been consistent over time. Still, I'd never consider myself a professional writer, whatever that is!

But I do love to write, and to be able to spend my days doing it, is great! Even if most of the writing I do is just emails and message boards. It's probably why I love the Internet so much, because it's a writing medium. Chat rooms were made for me!

Jill

[MazY]

[Quick apologies to all others that may have absolutely no interest whatsoever in this subject.]

Textual branding. Hmm. I don't know if you ever buy PC magazines (PC Plus in particular.) but if you do there is a freelance journalist in there named Martin Banks. Now there is a guy with a unique succint style. He lets his personality shine through each month without diluting the topic. (I guess I could say that he is my journalistic hero.)

Being succint is not something that I have managed to master as yet. Long live pleonasm!

[MazY]

lol. It just dawned on me after writing that last piece that even if you did buy PCPlus every month, the chances of Martin Banks also writing for the American version may be a little slim!

[JuniorHarris]

>We DO NOT care how many times a question might be asked.

I absolutely agree with that and EVERYTHING MazY said as well!~

It's not a very conducive learning environment if one must tip-toe around like a church mouse on Sunday morning.

[ihelpyou]

yea, especially when the posts made are usually from new members..... how should they know ALL the rules??

Forums should be open.

Who do you know would acutally read thru ALL the guidelines upon sign-up to a Free forum??

Not I. Not you. Not anyone.

Yet new posters get blasted for posting a Url or anything else. They simply do not know as other places do not have the strict ... I am your Daddy type rules....

[ihelpyou]

Read this many times also:

"Go back and re-read the guidelines for this forum"

"If you do not like the rules, just go hang out elsewhere"


geeeeeeezeeeee

[Advisor]

And then I betcha they complain about the arrogance of the Yahoos and LookSmarts of the world. When in fact, they are just as arrogant!

J

[ihelpyou]

300,000 members??

Me thinks NOT.

Maybe that is the number who have signed up over the last 5-6-7 years or so. Would be interesting to know how many actual active members there are now.

Not many cause they have gone elsewhere, as he always suggests.

[nitewing2]

Well, I have to say that I am disenchanted with that "other Forum" also....the newest moderator edited all my posts taking out my signatures and then emailed me a "you read the guidelines, we DO NOT allow signature in the posts as it is in your profile".

Whoopie doo! Even J puts his sig in sometimes...I wonder does she blast him too???

I emailed her back and told hre to Please Excuse meeee,

but a simple little tactful reminder at the end of the post where it was removed would have been all that was necessary!

:barf+: Barfs me out!!

That was the NEWEST moderator...I guess out to make a name for herself and she did with me, MUD

nitewing2

:bat:

[ihelpyou]

Yep. You can use any kind of signature you like. You should put your Url there?

[nitewing2]

Thanks!

I did.

And thanks for the email but the post you directed me to over there had been removed...by the author?


:bat:

[nitewing2]

:o:

When, In my aggravation over receiving the email from the newest moderator, I emailed her back I used a different email address.

My posting privileges have been suspended...I am sure it is some kind of mistake but shows how some people can jump the gun. I have about three or four different email addys because of my different domains but the one in here is the one I use mostly. I emailed Jim but received nothing back yet.

Nitewing

[ihelpyou]

Oh no nitewing2, that is not a mistake, I believe. That is the way thinks work there.

[Web Witch]

There sounds like 'hell'....

WW

[nitewing2]

Are you kidding?
:confused:

I know I have been a good citizen and did not step on any toes that I know of...in fact they used quite a few of the ideas I would just casually mention, such as virus-like spyware..and the page I put up: Visitors Alert....etc.

Of couse no credit given but none wanted or expected; just chimeing in....trying to be helpful.

I hope it is only a misunderstanding because I was actually getting to like some of the posters over there just the way I am getting to like you guys.

Oh well, maybe he will get around to answering me, maybe not...that's life.

Nitewing

:happy:

[nitewing2]

Well, people,

I mentioned this matter to my son and he decided to do a little flaming of his own...since I doubt if the thread will still be there when you read this I decided to Quote it here...I hope it is okay with you, Doug...if not then just delete it.
-----------------------------------------------
quote from poster to gethighforums.

mthiessen
Junior Member
Posts: 17
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 09-02-2001 05:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What kinda crap is going on here?!?
My Mother got banned for simply signing her name (nitewing2) at the bottom of her messages? Can anyone say "Drunk with power"???

Here is a quote from an email:

BEGIN QUOTE
This is Melissa (aka Sinoed) from the Jimworld Scumware forum. Could you please stop adding your signature at the bottom of your posts? Its against the rules you agreed to when you registered to post, specifically:

- Do not post "signatures" on your posts. No need to list your name, email address or URL. They are already in your profile.

Thanks!

Melissa

End of quote...

A NICE message, polite, to the point, BUT (and this is a big but) she BANS my Mother as well!!

BAN? BAN? Are you crazy?

First off, she only put nitewing2 at the bottom, nothing else... BIG DEAL! She has been diligently trying to HELP this movement against the scumwares, and have encouraged me to join in as well.

As a result of her involvement, I have wrote letters, called, worked on fixes and spread the word.

TODAY she discovers she has been banned! Unable to post, restricted status and all that crap, like she was some common criminal WTF is up with that?

I FULLY expect to be banned myself for speaking out against the above mentioned board nazi Sinoed, but hey, someone has too.

Why shoot your own soldiers? Are you stupid? Get over yourself!!!

Now I feel better, go ahead and ban me now.

~signature~
I have a secret, I see dumb people...~

MThiessen


unquote (Thass ma Boy! Happy Birthday, Mike)
:cheers:
-----------------------------------------------


Jimworld...a million dollars worth of free advertisements in the middle of a crisis!

Nitewing2

[ihelpyou]

oh, now I understand. Our new member is your son! :idea: All in the family is my decree. You are both more than welcome to have any kind of signature here you wish.

[Web Witch]

No links to porn sites and please no pop-up windows:)

WW

[nitewing2]

:green:


What!!

you mean I can't link my favorite porn site???? :rolleyes: and I soooo
wanted to advertise here with just a tiny little pop up...Oh well...



Nightwing2:green:

[ihelpyou]

Well, I guess I should have clarified that a little but the "terms of service" have that covered. :)

[Mel]

Hey all:

I have been sitting here scratching my head for the past half hour trying to figure out, why on earth otherwise rational people feel the need to exert their "power" in such a fashion.

I too have been a victim of the "power mad" moderators at "that Place", when I was only trying to answer questions and offer legitimate help to other users. But since I have a rather short fuse, I edited out ALL my previous posts on that forum, and came here to a more friendly and informative place. (Though I did create a new user name and posted a response to J** when he posted his own URL in response to a question - His response - "its my forum I can do anything I want")

The result of my head scratching is that perhaps this is a more informative forum because its a more friendly forum. We don't spend our time bashing other users, we use it to help them.

It may just also be that certain types of individuals are more comfortabe in different atmospheres, or they may take their cues from the owners attitude.

Whatever - Hats of to Doug and long life to this forum (I'm not going to take the trouble to wish it success, since 13,000 page views of one ten day old thread on a three month old forum makes that rather redundant)

[Blue]

Why shoot your own soldiers? I love it!!! :green:

I was actually having a really great day, but when I read that I almost rolled on the floor I was laughing so hard...You two nitewings have just put some delicious frosting on an excellent cake for me.Thanks so much.

And welcome nitewing2!

:hi:

(sidebar): nitewing, I don't mean to make light of your treatment "over there" and I empathise with you and your progeny. I'm glad you two found us here :) .

[nitewing2]

:p

Thanks Blue,

I've been around here for a while....Mike is the newer member. :)


Here is an email that I recieved form someone who was very active and effective in our fight on "that other forum" and it seems she has been banned too although I don't know why.

---------------------------------

Email
Quote


As one who came before you, I'm sorry for the poor treatment you've
received at the hands of JimWorld.

Just bear in mind, he's an egotistical person who can't stand the idea
that someone just *may* be smarter than he.

Email if you need support or sympathy.

XXXXXXXX

unquote
:eyes:
I have invited her to join us and I will let her introduce herself if she chooses too. Suffice it to say she was more effective speaker on the radio show than Jim was...even though she was a phone in, I believe.

Nitewing2

[Mel]

Hi Nitewing2

Just happened to notice your URL and now know who it is that ranks just above me on the on the Web Position **** keyword everywhere.

[ihelpyou]

One key is to always reply back quickly if a post may be against the rules a little. If you are polite but get the point across, the poster feels much better about themself and will continue on as a good member.

If you are anything else,... ego wise, short,etc, you have lost that member. I simply do not wish to lose members, and do all possible to keep them. Too nice? Maybe. Just my way.

Good point Mel, the fora developes the personality of the leaders.

[nitewing2]

Mel,

What keyword is that? I don't think we give out the same kind of information!:bouncy:

At last I am ahead of somebody...:-)

I have been #2 on msn 10 top picks for astrology for quite a while now.


:cheers:


Nitewing

[ihelpyou]

Wow nitewing2, that is impression for that word!

[ihelpyou]

I am going to close this thread. You can open new ones but let's not post names from now on. We can refer this way "the other place" instead.