Multiple page submissions

[tgorski]

I'm somewhat unclear as to what the rules are for submitting multiple pages at DMOZ.

In some places I've read that the only limit is 1 URL per category, implying that submitting mulitple pages to multiple categories is OK. But then that same site says elsewhere that you shouldn't submit more than once per week.

Elsewhere, I've read that the page limit at DMOZ is just your home page, implying a crawl, which I'm certain DMOZ does NOT do.

Does anyone realy know what the rule is on submitting multiple pages to different, relevant categories?

And a related question, if members of a portal, say at www.portal.com, submit their own home pages to DMOZ, such as www.portal.com/autobiz, from their own free email address, such as autobiz@portal.com, does this present a problem for the portal? Or does the different directory/folder or email address identify the source of the submission, thereby protecting the integrity of the portal itslef?

[MazY]

Their own help page answers your first question quite clearly.

"You should submit your site to the single most appropriate category that is directly relevant to your site's content. Please only submit your site one time. The ODP editors reserve the right to use their editorial discretion to determine which category or categories your site will ultimately be placed."

Rest assured you have more chance of crawling on the moon than you have of DMOZ performing a crawl on your site.

[tgorski]

Thanks for your prompt reply, MazY, but you didn't address the 2nd part of the question dealing with a portal that hosts other sites.

Portals can host different sites with a wide variety of content, certainly more than a single category can address. If portal members have web pages in isolated directories, such as www.portal.com/autobiz, and they submit that url (assuming index.html is their home page), and if they use their own free email address, such as autobiz@portal.com as the source of the submission, would any other listings for that portal be jeapordized if a bunch of members submitted their urls on the same day or even same week?

[ihelpyou]

Good question. Our resident moderator newriver should have an answer for you.

[MazY]

Sorry.

I understand your question and where you are coming from and the true answer is I really don't know.

I would suspect that it is not OK to submit what are essentially just different pages from different sub-directories within the same domain.

However, this is pure guesswork on my part and I really wouldn't like to be quoted on the above. lol

More after-thought...

The more I think about it the more I almost convince myself that I am right. The portal itself is the one that is looking to place itself into the DMOZ listings. Now the other sites that remain a part of that are essentially independant of the portal, despite being a part of it. Hmmm. Now I'm confusing myself again... I'll be back! lol

[newriver]

You can submit your website to any category that is relevant for a listing. There is no limit on how many listings a site can have in DMOZ.

You can submit http://url.com to multiple cats, and http://url.com/page1 to several other relevant cats.

the bottom line is that it is up to the editor of the category as to whether or not they will list the url, it depends on whether or not they think the page/site is relevant.

There are sites with over 400 listings in ODP.

It is fine to submit deeplinks, just don't submit dup urls.

[MazY]

OK OK Now I confess that I may be easily confused but how does your information coincide with the text on the DMOZ help page?

"Please only submit your site one time."

[MazY]

In fact - just to really fly in the face of debate, let me put the information from the help page in full context:

How do I get my site listed in more than one category?

"You should submit your site to the single most appropriate category that is directly relevant to your site's content. Please only submit your site one time. The ODP editors reserve the right to use their editorial discretion to determine which category or categories your site will ultimately be placed."

Now, where I come from, the term "single most appropriate category" means just that. That coupled with "only submit your site one time" seems to offer this simple reader at least, a conclusive answer that appears to fly totally against your response.

I am aware that some sites have managed to get themselves listed more than once but that does not mean that they should have. There are sites listed in the top of the Google rankings with hidden text. This doesn't mean that they should have.

So which one of you, if any, is wrong?

[tgorski]

Thanks, newriver!

While I "like" what you're saying, MazY has some good points, and I certainly don't want to jeapordize our standings with DMOZ.

You used examples of submitting each of 2 unique URLs from the same domain to multiple categories.

For one, I would like to know how to SAFELY submit a single URL to more than one category.

But my original concern is about submitting single unique URLs, from the same domain, to single, relevant categories. You're saying that's ok, right? Is there a limit to how frequently these submmissions can be mnade?

[newriver]

"Please only submit your site one time"

refers to each specific category. only submit your site one time to each category.

you can submit to as many cat's as you want assuming they are relevant to the content of your site.

Ex: My site

listed by other editors in
business/insurance/agents and marketers/health/disability
business/human resources/forget cat/compensation and something?
business/insurance/agent resources/general agents
and regional/north america/unied states/maryland/localities/b/bethesda/business and economy

[newriver]

question #2 answer:

just don't be stupid about it, once you submit, do not submit it again for 3 months or so. an editor has the choice as to whether or not they want to list you.

I have had several sub-pages declined for listings by other editors. I tried to submit http://www.guardiandibrokerage.com/occupations/medicaldatabase.cfm to a health/disability issues category and did not get in. now i just live with it. Maybe i will try again in a few months with a little note in the submission page saying, i assume i got declined on the last submission of this sub-page, i have made some changes which may be seen as more useful to browsers of this category, please review to see if this site is more appropriate as i beleive many people interested in disability issues would also be interested to see if they can still qualify for disability insurance. P.S. if you could let me know a result one way or another it would really make my day :) I promise not to bug you even if you decline me.

thanks,
signature

again, just my style, but it seems to work.

[newriver]

I should also qualify:

Don't do it all at once, get one listing, then another,etc... if you do a bunch of cats all at once you will probably have no chance as they will see it as an attempt to simply improve search engine ranking.

[ihelpyou]

Very good info newriver! I like the letter!

[Mel]

I submitted a site to DMOZ on July2. Drilled right down and submitted to a very specific category which my competitors were also listed in.

No listing or response by July 25 so I emailed the category editor; No response from the category editor after a week so I emailed the editor in the next category up; It has now been another week with no response.

How long can I expect this to go on?

[newriver]

Hi Mel,

I hate to tell you this, but currently it is not unusual for sites to sit in unreviewed for 3-4 months, especially if it was submitted to a large category like Regional or Business cats.

Your best chance may be to apply to become an editor, your site may be sitting in a pile of new submissions, and your emails be be falling on inactive editor ears.

My advice would be to apply to become an editor, or keep trying other editors listed one step higher each time.

Or email the details to somebody you know is an ODP editor.
:hi:

[Mel]

Hey Newriver:

I hear you but:

I submitted to a very specific directory:

Computers:Software: Internet: website promotion, which has only 48 listings and lists an editor (nocturnal).

I have twice previously applied for a DMOZ editors job, but was turned down in both instances - perhaps be cause I have an overseas address?

So Back to Basics or wait and see

[MazY]

Mel...

If it's any consolation at all, I belong to a newsgroup that is constantly referring to the very problem that you describe. (No replies, extremely long periods before replies, months passing before submission and so forth.)

I applied to be a moderator some weeks ago and was declined. I pondered their decline for a second and thought to myself "You ain't that important for me to try again."

[ihelpyou]

You know, awhile back I applied to be an editor and was declined as well. Guess I can understand my decline, but Mel and MazY...... I think not. Classic example of the problems that ODP has. Turning away obvious great writing skills is unbelievable.

[Mel]

"....was declined. I pondered their decline for a second and thought to ........."

ROFL

Yes MazY That may be one of the reasons they are declining

[newriver]

I can only imagine how busy that category is, if i had to guess i would say your the editor declined to list your site.

Also, i would not apply to that category. I am sure that is the toughest category in ODP to get accepted in, and they probably only list editors that have experience elsewhere in that category.

Try applying for a category like the rest of us did, a low, unimportant category in Regional, or some low level unimportant category way down the line in a Business tree. Work your way up from the bottom, there is no difference between DMOZ and any other business. That would be like applying to be the VP of an insurance company with no experience.

My first category was an 8th level category. I would be willing to bet they have never accepted a new editor to edit web site promotion. Not an ODP problem, just really common sence that a new editor can do way to mouch damage in that category.

Every high level editor in DMOZ I am sure started way down the line and earned their priviledges through good editing, reviews by other editors,etc...

[ihelpyou]

Good point newriver. I did not realize that was the category.

[newriver]

Wanted to add that they would never turn down somebody because of an overseas email address. That could only benefit you as i am sure they need a lot of help in those areas.

Try applying to be an editor in a Regional category with less than 10 sites in it, no editor listed, relevant to your area. if you edit well, you will find yourself with lots of priviledges really quickly. Make sure the three sites you submit have proper titles and descriptions with no hype, and a third person description.

[MazY]

Originally posted by Mel
"Yes MazY That may be one of the reasons they are declining

Hmm. Not quite sure what you are saying there. lol

If you are saying that they detected my lack of committment by deciding after the event that my time is too valuable to go chasing something that is ultimately in their interest, not mine, then I'm a tad bewildered.

However, in my defence, I didn't sleep at all last night so I'm most likely not reading things properly today.

[JuniorHarris]

Glad I'm not the only one to forgo sleep!~

On a side note, anyone have any idea why the volume of mail has increased to my PO box?

[MazY]

LOL. Can't say that I do.

[ihelpyou]

I've been sending you unsolicited postal mail for a few months now. :D

[JuniorHarris]

Ok, that explains all the post cards with pictures of Charleston, but what about all these others...

[ihelpyou]

:green:

[Advisor]

Just admit it, Mazy. You didn't sleep because you were so broken up at being turned down at ODP. C'mon, we know the true story behind your lack of :sleep:

Jill

[MazY]

Originally posted by webwhiz
Just admit it, Mazy. You didn't sleep because you were so broken up at being turned down at ODP. C'mon, we know the true story behind your lack of :sleep:

Jill

I am contacting Judge Jackson as we speak to get the decision overturned!

I shall be seeking full compensation for the distress caused etc. and to the damage that it has done to my fine upstanding pillar of the community reputation. :D

[MazY]

By the way - if anyone believes that my being an ODP editor type thing would have strengthened my market domination in internet moderation type things, please submit your claims as soon as possible.

[newriver]

:down:

[Mel]

Hi Newriver:

To set things straight, since we appear to be talking apples and oranges -

I applied to the category mentioned (Computers:Software: Internet: website promotion, which has only 48 listings) to list a site which sells software. I would think that 48 total listings would not make it a very busy category. If the editor chooses to turn down legitimate sites for whatever reason, but About, Looksmart and Yahoo will accept those same sites, then I feel that submitting to DMOZ is simply not worth my time.

I applied to be an editor for local sites (Malaysia) which had almost no listings and both had a "this category needs an editor" statement at the bottom. I submitted the required 3 related sites and wrote apt descriptions of them consistent with other DMOZ descriptions.

If I may be excused for saying so, when it comes to the state of the internet and related items as relates to Malaysia, I am considered somewhat of an expert, and have "how-to" articles published in the computer section of the National newspaper.

I just have to join MazY and consider that I can get faster and better results with less effort elsewhere.

[ihelpyou]

hey Mel, I am in the same boat as you are. Many sites submitted and not all in. Applied as an editor to a category with NO editor listed, and got denied. Can't remember which category now. :eek:

One day things might get better.....

[cheche]

Hello...i'm not sure quite how I managed to register and enter this forum because something strange happened in the form filling process...but here I am :1: !!!

Very relieved to have come across others who are just as confused as me about the ODP (and Yahoo for that matter)....can't we just boycott them....you know impose sanctions! 'Internet community rounds on the Directories'....okay...just joking...and this is all probably a good indication of my frustration:angel:

I think i'll try the submit to all relevant categories and wait with baited breath to see what happens....sorry did someone mention to NOT submit doorway pages to the ODP or is it okay as long as they are optimised (with relevant content) for a particular category...i.e real estate France...i have produced a doorway page specifically for that phrase....so can I submit that to the appropriate category and so on with each country?

Cheers

Che Che

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Che Che! :hi:

I think this is a question for newriver. I do not know but I would say submitting a doorway is not a good idea. They like the main site.

Question for our fearless moderator though.

[cheche]

Thanks for such a speedy response...just to clarify...does this mean I can submit my main page to different categories? Just to explain my site lists real estate for sale worldwide and as I'm building content in each country I begin to optimise that content....my main index page is optimised for the world.....but as you can imagine it's a huge area to cover in one single index page.......what do you think?

Bye

Che Che

[ihelpyou]

I would say that you should submit your front page first in the appropriate category. Dig deep.

Then, you can submit any country specific pages as long as they each have unique content.

No, one page per category is accepted. Cannot have two pages in the same category that I am aware.

[Advisor]

Make sure you wait until your main page is in the directory before trying to submit any others. And even then, I'd suggest waiting many months before trying to submit any additional pages. And absolutely NO doorway pages.

Jill

[newriver]

Do not submit doorways...that would be bad.

DMOZ is not a place to try to trick, or optmize for. If you have a real site, that a browser would obtain useful info from, submit it to an appropriate category.

Don't submit as many pages as possible just to get link pop, somebody will catch you.

If your site is appropriate to more than one cat, submit it to the most appropriate category....once listed try for the others. There is nothing wrong with that.

Side note: Bitching about the open directory does nothing for anybody, it is a volunteer system, and a lot of people have spent a lot of hours to make it what it is. If you don't like the way it works, join and try to change it. It is not difficult to join, 30,000 plus people have been accepted to edit. Just submit to a low, unimportant category so you can get trained, and use correct grammar,etc...

This forum is Doug's to run as he sees fit, but complaining about things does nothing for public credibility, or for SEO help. If I were Doug I would not want all the ranting about DMOZ on this forum, no other editors would want to come here to read that. I would want a place that encouraged editors to hang out and join conversations.

[ihelpyou]

So far I think the thread is going okay. True that some posts could have been a little more toned down but overall... okay.

Editors reading the forums can also learn about things outside of ODP. I think this can only be good also. We all can learn, including those editors.

Sometimes we trash the other directories, but be sure, their editors are reading here to learn. One directory has editors here every day. Yes. This is true. Editors can learn a bunch from forums about what the outside world thinks about things. It can only be a healthy learning experience, but I do agree we have to keep it clean and all about learning.

[MazY]

Excuse my acute but heartfelt response if you will but "complaining"? "Bitching"?

As I understand it - this forum was designed to welcome the frank and honest views of both professionals and newcomers alike. What it was not designed for, I believe, was to "gloss over" any particular issue for the fear of it offending somebody, some engine, some directory or some association in particular. Hell, TopDog got far more from me than you have experienced in here and took it in the manner it was intended - honest and frank exchange of views.

Reading through the thread in its entirety, I am struggling to see any undue bitching or complaining. What I see are honest views on what people have experienced. If that is not to your personal taste then fine but I hardly feel that qualifies you to accuse them of "bitching" or "complaining".

What would you rather have? Honesty of opinion and experience or "Oh yes, we all found it lovely."? If it's half-truth, glossary and supposition that people want then they can get that elsewhere. If it is ground-level, real experience, straight-talking, clear and informative advice and true to life experiences from those in the field then this is the correct forum. This is also, incidentally, what I believe parts us from the others.

If, this forum is about to turn into another that caters for those that cannot handle debate then I for one shall be quickly vacating!

[ihelpyou]

Yep. I love debate. This forum is different than the rest. I do feel as long as we are not debating about a particular editor or something, we are just fine.

Debating about our problems with how ODP is run, seems to me to be okay. The editors reading this can learn what problems we all might be having. I see nothing wrong with this. We are all mature enough to see the difference in a flame and in a helpful complaint or question.

[MazY]

I would seriously curse the day that a newbie felt that he or she could not come into these forums and just let off steam about the way that he or she has just been treated by a directory, search engine, company, etc.

If we ever reached that stage then we may as well just change our name to "that other forum". :D

[Mel]

Hi Newriver:

In principle I agree with your comments but, I (and it looks like several very talented others) have yet to figure out how to join as editors. We all have limited time and after I spend a few hours on any project with negligible results, I have no choice but to go on to things which do produce results.

I can understand that the organizational model of ODP with 30,000 volunteer editors is difficult to keep moving smoothly, but when many individuals who are knowledgeable and successful in other areas, and are willing to donate their time and effort to assist are not accepted, then perhaps it's time to look at re-organization.

Individuals with the talent and knowledge of Doug and MazY for instance would be very useful to ODP, and I hardly think anyone is going to teach Mazy better grammer than he uses now, so perhaps the selection criterea is not valid.

Personally, I do not view the complaints in this forum as bitching, but more as a cry for help, but one which has so far been ignored.

We'd all like to see ODP better run and with better content, so what do we do now? I believe the ball is in ODPs court. Will there be any response from them?

[newriver]

We having fun yet?
:thebomb:

I understand what everybody is saying, and perhaps i did not make my thoughts clear, and I think I used innappropriate verbage to express them.

Everybody here has experienced forums regarding DMOZ before, many time these types of forums become a place to vent frustrations.

As an editor, it is very frustrating to read comments from other people about my work. People who have reached high level editor status have put in countless hours listing web sites we have absolutely nothing to do with. When one hears a complaint about something so simple as not being accepted as an editor, that is when I get all fired up as I did in my previous post.

I can almost guarantee that a person can get accepted as an editor if they apply to a low level state category in Regional, more specifically their home town, that does not have an editor listed. We need more editors, that is obvious!

In fact, if anybody wants to apply to be an editor, send me an email and I will work with you to get you in. You won't be editing anything in the computers category, or web promotion, but that is something you could possibly work towards. None of us were accepted in a high level category, we all put in the time and effort to make DMOZ a better place than it was when we joined.

I have to warn anybody that wants to join, if you abuse your editor status after joining you will get booted very quickly.

The challenge is out, I'll spend the time so you have an understanding of how DMOZ works, and you can help it. I would venture to guess it would be worth your time.

[ihelpyou]

Thanks for that newriver!

I think one thing that is confusing is, I do not remember reading anything before hand that said you should apply to a lower level category to be accepted. If I had read that Before submitting the application, I would have thought about a different category.

This is what I mean by ODP maybe learning from our experiences. If it was this simple, ODP should make this very clear before you submit. Maybe I missed this? If I did miss this info beforehand, maybe it was not spelled out in a clear way? I do not know....

The problem lies in the fact that once rejected, it takes More time to resubmit, and time is kind of valuable, especially if we keep busy.

As long as everything is spelled out ahead of time, these problems and rejections might not occur.

I do think ODP can learn lots from forums like this. It can only be in their best interest to do so.

[ihelpyou]

I just picked a category out of the blue that is accepting applications for editors.

http://dmoz.org/cgi-bin/apply.cgi?where=Computers/Hardware/SCSI/SCSI_Technical_Information

Now, I have read many places after the fact of my rejection that you should ALWAYS submit 3 Urls to be listed in the application. The app clearly states that you submit 2 OR 3 Urls. Nothing else is stated.

THis is what I mean. Many gray areas. I think in my app I only submitted 2 Urls.

There is also not a mention that you should start out in a regional category. Nothing is mentioned about this. They could say that you have a better chance of being accepted if you apply in a regional category. They do not say this. They also do not say you should submit 3 other Urls and not just 2. They stick in the word ..... OR, which is a very big word in this case. If I would have known that 3 is mandatory, I will have waited to submit the app until such time I had found another Url to make 3.

This is what I mean. ODP could learn a bunch from forums like this.

[Mel]

Hi Newriver:

First of all I hope you do not think we are commenting on your work at DMOZ personally. That is not the case - we are talking about the system, and perhaps your perception that we can change it if we become editors is right.

But things are not always as clearcut as they appear to be. I'll take you up on the challenge of trying one more time (what the heck if I can get by on four hours sleep a night I can probably get by on three).

Here we go.

Background - I live in Malaysia,and am knowledgable about computers and SEO - (If some one wants me to edit a category about invertabrate zoology they will not get very good results.)

So lets start to find a category.

OK Top: Regional: Asia: Malaysia: States: Federal Territories: Localities: Kuala Lumpur:
Business and Economy (38)

the last three catagories all need an editor, but the deepest category (there are none deeper) is a ragbag of businesses only related because they are located in KL, and I have no special expertise in that area.

Lets try again - Top: Regional: Asia: Malaysia: Business and Economy: Computers and Internet: Internet (200)

The last category needs an editor and underneath that category there are:

Electronic Commerce (17)
E-mail (8)
E-zines (3)
Free Stuff (6)
Online Communities (41)
Search Engines (43)
Web Design and Development (38)

all of which need editors. I have some ideas about search engines, but this category is just that, a listing of Malaysian search engines and it pretty well has them all covered. I suppose I could apply for that job except there is no way I can find three additional but related sites, since there are no unlisted search engines.

So you see it is not quite so cut and dried as it may appear to be.


Edited b MN - I seem to be having a problem here since the combinationof 8 followed by an ) give me that nice little smilie. I guess you'll have to translate that.

[newriver]

Let's try to keep these personal over email if we can...

You do not have to stay in Regional, but it is usually a good place to start.

Rule of thumb, don't apply to a category that has more than 40 sites, the fewer the better. If the category directly above the category you are applying for has an editor it is also probably not a good cat to apply for.

Keep it small, keep it simply, and you should get in.

Anybody know anything about insurance?

[Mel]

Hi again Newriver:

Just took a look around again trying to find a suitable site and note that the Malaysia internet category has only two listings and needs an editor. I mean it really needs an editor - when I clicked on the first of the two listings I was taken through four (4) redirects and ended up on a totally different URL with a flashing banner for P***S enlargment.

I think I'll go to bed and try again tomorrow.

[MazY]

Originally posted by Mel
when I clicked on the first of the two listings I was taken through four (4) redirects and ended up on a totally different URL with a flashing banner for P***S enlargment.

LOL. I have told JH about leaving his ads everywhere!

[newriver]

That would be a perfect category to apply for then, make sure you place a note in your application about those two sites, you could use those two as sites you planned on deleting, and show an example of a good site you would list...sounds like you have found the correct category to me.

Remember everybody, it is a human reviewing these applications, put something in there as to why you would be a good editor...ability to recognize a re-direct, dup url, etc...are all good things to have in your bag.

[Mel]

Hi Newriver;

I just dug back to my submittal of last year and this is the category that I was turned down for.

Let me scratch around a bit more.

[cheche]

Dear Doug and others

Finally things are starting to clear re the ODP (in my mind...the rankings is another matter!). Thank you!

Re: Newrivers side note: Since joining this forum I have noticed an enormous amount of frustration with the ODP (& probably applies to yahoo too) ....I think any frustration regarding this directory is warranted and if expressed ...all the better, how els do we improve OUR industry. It may be a human run index, but that does not make it infallible. Here's a question....compare the quality of the search results of a human directory and a search engine and see which produces the most appropriate results for YOUR search.

I can't remember who it was who earlier on mentioned just leaving the ODP out of their strategy all together, if there are two people in this forum alone thinking along these lines it does not bode well for the ODP.

che Che

[cheche]

OOppps forgot to say...As we're talking about editors...i have tried umpteen times to become an editor and have not heard a squeak from the ODP.....do you think they reject people for being over-enthusiastic! :confused: !

[newriver]

Cheche,

not speaking for Yahoo! results, but they tend to be very good!

Re: DMOZ results, DMOZ does not spend time trying to have quality search results. It is a directory only, it's goal is to provide a database for search engine's to use in their own search results. Seeing as Google is a major user of DMOZ, I would tend to say their search results are pretty good. How a SE uses the data is completely up to them, but DMOZ's goal is not to be a SE, only a directory for other SE's to use.

Nope, they don't penalize for being overly enthusuastic, in fact enthusiasm is welcomed as we need more good editors.

Side note: I would be happy to walk anybody through the application process. Generally I can spot a reason why an application would be declined, that you may not be thinking about. The offer is open!...but please do it via email instead of on this forum.

[ihelpyou]

Great offer there newriver! I agree that "personal" stuff should be done thru email but general info about apps, etc can be debated in the forum.

[cheche]

Dear Newriver, Doug.....and all

Thanks for the reply Newriver. Alas, now I don't have the time to invest in the ODP (as an editor) which is a shame because I have a heaving favourites folder (@3000 real estate related links)!

re: yahoo results....I think it's a matter of personal taste...they just don't 'do it' for me :cool:

Have a good day!

Che Che