A lesson in "Hyphens"?

[Ed Champion]

1.) Could someone explain the advantages or disadvantages of using hyphens in a domain name as well as in the title?

2.) Am i correct in understanding that search engines will see a phrase that uses hyphens as both the individual words as well as the combined words?

ie. blue - green - widgets, is read by the search engines as the key phrase "blue green widgets" and the key words "blue", "green" and "widjets".

3.) Why do some people use a slash ( / ) between words in their title? Is this the same effect as a hyphen?

Thanks for the help.

[Advisor]

It is my understanding that most search engines ignore hyphens and treat them as a space, so your example would be correct if this is the case. I don't know why people would put a slash in their title. I surely wouldn't!

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Hi Ed! First in the title of the page:

Hyphens are preferred by some and nothing more. Hyphens are just like a comma in that it takes up a space. I personally think it looks better in the title to use them. I also think it helps with ranks, BUT this is my preference.

In domain; I believe it might help with the engines slightly to separate keywords. Not much IMO.

In your content; acts the same way as a comma. A space.

Using a slash does no good I am aware of. I have not seen it used in a title.

[ihelpyou]

ha, thinking alike? :)

[Advisor]

LOL...I thought you were just copying me! :)

J

[ihelpyou]

lol, you are a much faster typer than I.

[Ed Champion]

Thanks for the replys.

Let me ask you, As a realtor in Vancouver BC, my key phrases need to include real estate.

Obviously real estate is a very competative key phrase, so i need to combine it with my geographical location to set myself apart from a few hubred thousand other realtors.

My problem - i think- is that my key word density quicly gets to high as a percentage of my page content if i use "real estate" in a general term as a key word, and "vancouver real estate" as a specific key word phrase.

So the purpose of my question, is to determine if by using hyphens will reduce the "double count" that seems to be happening with "real estate" as a key word. and "real estate" in my key phrases.

It boils down to; will hyphens eliminate the double count?

Again, i appreciate your help very much. Thanks

[Advisor]

I think using hyphens would be the same as if you didn't use them. Don't worry too much about using your keyphrases too much in the text. If it makes sense to the person reading it and sounds good, it will be okay with the spiders.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Yep. Hyphens mean nothing in the content but space.

You do not have to always have the phrase together.

Example:

real estate is lovely in B.C.
BC real estate
real estate words are here to take up space BC.
real estate

Phrases do not have to be together. You do not have to use "real estate" with BC to make a phrase. Jill is very right in that if you simply include "real estate" a good number of times, preferably in the 8-12% range of your content, you should be fine. Whatever words go with that term can be included virtually anywhere on the page. Granted, if all three words are together, it is better, but do not overdo it.

Just make your most important couple of phrases the most prevalent on the page and keep the content appealing to your visitors.

[Mel]

Hi Ed;

Took a quick look at your site and do not see that you have the phrase real estate on your home page much at all. Unless you are redoing your site you actually do not use the phrase enough.

Your title is much too long - most of the search engines will not index it all. I usually try to keep titles down to 80 characters and descriptions to 250 characters.

I also note that your homepage is written in such a way as to differentiate you from othe realtors - why not try to include something from this area in your keywords strategy?

For Instance - as a title "Full service realtors specializing in Vancouver and Fraser Valley residential real estate"

Then try to write a readable description tag which is slanted towards the way you are different.

[Ed Champion]

thank you for the help.

Mel, the home page you looked at is is going to be replaced.

Since joining this forum, and reading as much material as possible on the subject, i have tried to optimize a new page located at www.edchampion.com/home2.htm

I would really appreciate any comments.

1.) A keyword density analyzer results show;
"estate" density = 15%
"real" density = 15%
"real estate" density = 30%
"surrey real estate" density = 12%
Is this a problem?

2.) Another test scored my keywords/keyphrases relevancy on my new home page higher than my competitors scores.
should i be concerned, or have i optimized my page better than they have?

3.) Last question. Is it better to ask questions and optimize a web site before submitting to engines and directories, or is better to submit and then improve the page over time. As soon as i am happy with the make over, i plan to submit the site to looksmart. It has not been sumitted to any other engines at this time.

Thanks,

[ihelpyou]

oh yes, definitely optimize first before submitting to any search engine including Looksmart.

You are a bit strong on "real estate". I would cut that down. Remember, it does not matter if the 3 words are side by side, as long as all 3 words of the phrase are in the content. You only need them side by side a couple times.

The heading at the top has it way too many times. Once is enough up there.

Mainland, Langley, and Surrey real estate. ... That is all you need. They can be together elsewhere in the content.

[ihelpyou]

Looking further Ed, you need more content on the page as a whole. Not enough. This is why your density is so high. Make a couple paragraphs describing how your site will benefit your visitors. What is in it for them? Use your keyword phrases in the content.

Just need more.

[MazY]

Hi Ed.

Here is my UK pespective on your most recent page.

Your Heading

"Lower Mainland real estate, Surrey real estate, Langley real estate. Your Reliable Realtors for Homes and Properties located in BC."

I think that you are sailing dangerously close to overkill there on the prase "real estate". Perhaps a better suggestion may be:

"Real estate in Langley, Surrey and the Lower Mainland Area"

Remember, this is just your heading. This way, you have covered your locations and your areas.

Images

You have a lot of images on the page which, whilst nice to look at (and they are) serve little or no purpose as far as the search engines are concerned. If, after careful thought, you feel that you need to retain those images then you must apply an alt-tag and include a key-phrase or two within each. However, my professional advice would be to remove them and instead use that space for getting some good quality key-phrase rich text in place instead.

Scrolling Ticker

Without doubt, your scrolling ticker provided some information that your clients may benefit from? So why not drop the ticker and put is as text highlights on the page? My golden rule is to develop all text first and then add images afterwards if there is still space. Never let the notion of nice images override the importance of having quality text content. Images should take a very firm second place to text. That is not to say that you cannot have a nice looking page. It just means that you have to be cautious in the way that you work things.

Try it - scrap the images, add all the text and only after you are happy with the text, think about images and where to place them.

Other Areas

Your heading towards the foot of the page:

"The Champion Team . . . When Winning Counts" Note that the word champion is larger than all the others? Why? Realisitcally are you hoping that someone may search on champion real estate? Not likely is it? What if that said "The Champion Real Easte Team?" with the words "Real Estate" in the larger font? Now that makes sense.

Good luck with the site and do keep asking those questions! You only get one chance to make a good first impression remember!

They are my immediate thoughts anyway.

[markymark]

Doug is right again, but with one slight caveat. Google uses keyword proximity a lot in its algo. This, in my opinion, is the main reason it produces better results than its competitors. So if Vancouver real estate is one of your main keywords, then I would suggest having that phrase as an exact phrase twice in two sentences or so. Google also uses alt. tags in its results, so you can use it there too.

[MazY]

Talking of keyword density...

Am I the only one that pastes his page content into MS Word and then uses the highlighter tool to highlight all my key-phrases, then take a good look at it to see whether I "feel" it looks too much or too little? It looks the same way as the old Google cache does.

Then I use the word "properties" to do a word count, a quick bit of math and if I'm happy with my number of key-phrases per 100 words I'm away! Sorted!

God bless MS Word I say. Far better than any keyword density analyzer!

[Mel]

HI MazY

Actually I had not thought of that idea, but since I normally use the word count tool in MS word to check the length of tags and pages, I think I'll take your tip on this also.

[Advisor]

And here I thought you couldn't do math, Maz!

J

[Blue]

Hi MazY,

I'll go one step further and suggest you put that tip in the "Tip of the Day" forum?

Oh, and welcome to Ed Champion!

:hi:

[JuniorHarris]

Hello Ed!~ :hi: