Greetings from Inktomi

[Inktomi]

Hi folks,

I know Inktomi historically hasn't posted in this forum, but that's all changing. I've been hired to open up the dialogue and I'll stop by from time to time to answer questions and ask a few of my own. Since this forum is dedicated to our partner MSN (the most popular portal on the Internet!) I figured I'd make my presence known.

Let me start by asking, what can we do better?

Thanks,
Inktomi

[WebSavvy]

Welcome to the forums Inktomi! :)

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Inktomi! :hi:

I'm very happy to see you want to start conversing with us. That is a big step and a very good step. I'm very sure the members in here will have lots of advice for you. I will leave it up to them to start things. :)

Thanks for reaching out!

p.s. Nice avatar. :thumb:

[Inktomi]

Wow, you folks sure respond fast! I'll try to do my best to keep up with the constant activity ;)

Inktomi.

[sanity]

Originally posted by Inktomi
Let me start by asking, what can we do better?

Welcome to the forums Inktomi! :hi:

Just being here to help answer questions is a great start.

Sophie

[JuniorHarris]

Welcome!~ :hi:

As the others have posted, just being here is already a great step!~:up:

I'm sure we'll have plenty of questions in due time ;), so maybe we can just ease you on in with a few welcomes first!~ :) Welcome again to the forums!~

[maninderwalia]

Hi! Inktomi

Welcome!

[MakeMeTop]

A very warm welcome, Inktomi and many thanks for deciding to de-lurk. I hear that a lot of changes are happening to enhance the INKT search engine services and look forward to being able to get some information straight from the source (when allowed of course) :)

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Inktomi

I know Inktomi historically hasn't posted in this forum, but that's all changing. I've been hired to open up the dialogue and I'll stop by from time to time to answer questions and ask a few of my own. Since this forum is dedicated to our partner MSN (the most popular portal on the Internet!) I figured I'd make my presence known.


:hi: Greetings Inktomi,

We quite agree with our Forum-Mates who have already expressed the fact that your presence and availability is a wonderful start to how you can do things better.

Interacting with the public at large is certainly what will give your company some good PR.

We will certainly be doing our part to get the word out about your public presence here.


Let me start by asking, what can we do better?


What we would like to know is what Inktomi would like for the public at large to either STOP doing or START doing that would make your database better and more relevant?

In other words, what is Inktomi's current #1 pet peeve?

Thank you.

[highman]

Welcome to the forums Inktomi :hi:

>What can we do better?

IMO you've just done the first thing.... opening up for discussion :)

Great to have you here, a quick question to get ya warmed up.

There is a lot of discussion about how many databases Inktomi run and talk of magical BOW database, can you shed any light on this..

would this be the current set up?

1) Normal database
2) PFI database
3) Best Of the Web database
4) another ?

Of course if you feel any questions are 'sensitive' then let us know!

[newriver]

Hello Inktomi,
Welcome aboard, we are glad to have you!
I think the first thing Inktomi needs to work on is market presence. I personally like the relevance I see when I visit pure search, and MSN results, however all of your eggs are now in one basket with MSN.

I would like to see Inktomi begin to promote their own search engine, seek alignments with other sources of traffic, and basically compete with Google.

As webmasters our current focus is Google because it has to be, they have the largest source of traffic, and it is steadily becoming a monopoly. All of us are more than willing to work with a company like Inktomi if you can show us traffic from the work we do. Since Inktomi's best source of traffic is secondary results on MSN, the traffic is just not there for a lot of us to spend a lot of time on it.

Inktomi's number one goal in my opinion should be to increase their traffic from MSN, or sign a deal with Yahoo, etc... Or promote their own search engine.

Glad to have ya on board!!!!

[ihelpyou]

Nice ideas newriver!

Also, please run away from being associated with Looksmart as soon as possible. I know MSN holds a lot of cards, but Inktomi should be the mainstream search results on MSN.com. NO LS results should be anywhere. I know that's a sensitive subject but I'm very sure Ink would love to be the only results on MSN.

We all know that Yahoo is in the cards for the future. We are just waiting to see what Yahoo plans to do. :)

[Advisor]

Welcome, Inktomi!

You have a dream job. Get paid to visit forums! :D

I'm sure I'll see you next week in San Jose. I'll look for the colorful cube guy/gal walking around...

Jill

[bigDugan]

Welcome!! :cheers:

[Inktomi]

Lots of questions! Let me see if I can answer a couple of them:

(1) We are absolutely committed to increasing distribution. MSN is a great partner and we're working to up the amount of cool things we are doing with them. We're also working hard to acquire new partners and win old ones back.

(2) Our primary database is our main Web collection (more than 2 billion documents). We get those URLs from a number of places, and that's where there are some differences. Some of them are part of our paid inclusion program (Index Connect or Search Submit), but that's just where they come from - it doesn't affect ranking. We also know about lots of URLs that change very frequently, so we crawl them more frequently.

(3) As for pet peeves, our biggest one is probably spam. We've invested lots of people and money to ensure that our search results are of the utmost quality. Some search engines think it's just enough to crawl as much of the Web as possible and have the biggest index. It turns out that's a lot easier than having the *best* index. False URLs, cloaking, unrelated doorway pages, fake inbound links and misusing affiliate programs are considered spam at Inktomi. Of course, as much as spam is a pet peeve, we feel very proud at being the best at finding it :)

(4) And for what you can START doing, you're doing it - talk to us.

Thanks,
Inktomi

[Advisor]

Thanks for the info, Inktomi.

Here's another one for you:

We have a lot of debates in here regarding what is and what isn't spam. But the only ones who can say for sure what spam is, are the engines themselves. Therefore, I ask you:

Would Inktomi consider a cloaked page spam if the information cloaked was highly specific and relevant to the site?

How about if someone used noframes text and made it highly relevant to the site (but it was not what the viewer saw in the browser).

And what about Zorder text in layers? If it's highly relevant to the site, but not seen by the average visitor, do you consider it spam?

Thanks!

Jill

[JustTrying]

Hello Inktomi :hi:

I'll second Jill's questions to you about cloaking and z-order. A clear unambiguous answer on the matter of "non-spam cloaking" (perhaps an oxymoron, but still a very popular phrase used by those who enjoy the benefits of cloaking) would really be appreciated.

Additionally, if Inktomi is really working towards a pure datatbase, where can webmasters report spammers? Also, along the same lines, when is Inktomi going to offer a "cached" version of search results in order to "uncover" cloakers?

One other question I have for you is regarding your "best ofthe Web" database, and exactly what it is, and how that is different than the PFI or "ordinary" databases.

I look forward to reading your responses. Thanks again for joining! :thumb:

[dvduval]

Welcome to the forums, Inktomi!
By communicating with webmasters you are opening up a great oppurtunity to gain popularity among us. Thank you for taking the time to pursue this very important step.

A couple of questions if you find time to answer them:

If a listing is removed from the PPI program, is it completely removed from the database (and search results)? I've gotten quite a few cryptic answers to this question.

How often are the other non-PFI databases updated? Follow up question: Please tell us a little bit about how you update these databases.

[ihelpyou]

Since the word 'cloaking' takes in many different forms, I think it's safe to say we want to know if "IP based" cloaking is spam since it's detecting search engine IP numbers and delivering a different page to the spider than the browser sees. These types of cloakers say that as long as the cloaked page is 'relevant', it is not spam. Google says it's spam so we want to know what Inktomi says it is.

We already know that other forms of cloaking are not spam. IP based is the form in question. I hope this makes the cloaking question easier for you to answer. :)

[lots0cash]

Hello INK and Welcome to the forums!

Its nice to see another Search Engine wanting to engage Webmasters and SE Placement Specialists.

I have just one question concerning the “Best of the Web” Database - Does it exist?:confused:

[Blue]

Welcome, Inktomi, to the forums! :cheers:

[Kal]

Hi Inktomi :hi: and welcome.

I'd like to hear more about your latest investment in Quiver Inc. Does this signal a change in corporate strategy towards enterprise search? Is that the main reason for the recent staff cuts and will any of your existing products change as a result? Thanks in advance.

[Inktomi]

Hi all,

Regarding spamming, check out Inktomi's content guidelines on our site:

http://www.inktomi.com/services/web_search/guidelines.html
http://www.inktomi.com/services/web_search/spampolicyfaq.html

Also, we do have a place to report spamming: reportspam@inktomi.com.

There were a couple of questions about our Best of the Web database. Historically we actually had more than one index that our partners were searching. We still have a notion of sites on the web that change frequently and which we crawl more frequently, but all partners are now searching more than 2 billion documents.

As for freshness, we're very proud of the progress we've made. The entire index is refreshed every 14-21 days, and as short as every 48 hours for some pages. This is an area of focus for us, so we expect it to get even shorter over time.

Kal, you ask a good question about our purchase of Quiver. Recently Inktomi made some organizational changes to focus the entire company around search - both Web and enterprise. We think this organizational focus will be great for both divisions in the long run. Web search continues to be a profitable division and we've hired quite a few people in the past few weeks as we put more momentum behind the division and invest in our product. As you might imagine, there are also a lot of great synergies to be found between enterprise and Web search.

Great questions and comments, keep them coming!

Thanks,
Inktomi.

[nitewing2]

Just read Inktomi's thread over at webmaster world...they are going at it hot and heavy asking loads of questions....

So, are you hitting all the boards to get feedback? If so, great! Keep up the good intentions.

Nitewing2

[Farhan]

Welcome to the forums Inktomi :cheers:

[Kal]

Thanks for the prompt response - good luck with the new company directions :cheers:

[Alan Perkins]

Welcome Inktomi :hi:

Some questions based on your replies...Originally posted by Inktomi
Historically we actually had more than one index that our partners were searching. We still have a notion of sites on the web that change frequently and which we crawl more frequently, but all partners are now searching more than 2 billion documents.Does that mean this Inktomi Content Discovery info (http://www.inktomi.com/services/web_search/difference.html) is inaccurate?
As for freshness, we're very proud of the progress we've made. The entire index is refreshed every 14-21 days, and as short as every 48 hours for some pages. Does that 48 hours include pages that are not in one of your paid inclusion programs?
Recently Inktomi made some organizational changes to focus the entire company around search - both Web and enterprise.Does this mean you will be focusing less on Content Networking Products (http://www.inktomi.com/products/cns/)?

Finally, the way I read the FTC statement on paid inclusion and paid placement, if the fact that you have paid for inclusion affects the fact that you have been included then this needs to be disclosed. FAST (your most direct competitor) have complied with these disclosure requirements. Will Inktomi be encouraging their distribution partners to do likewise?

[highman]

A few thoughts while I wait for my monday morning coffee fix!

It seems, in general, search is heading for the PFI model and Inktomi would, no doubt, love to court all webmasters and SEO's to PFI, but does inktomi see a partnership beyond the PFI program arising with SEO's?

If so how could that partnership / relationship be more than just an affiliate?


Most SEO's see the current 'optimisation' situation as 'US and THEM', you are probably aware there is a growing breed of SEO that is dead against spam and Search Engine 'tricks' (read these forums!), this is obviously good news for SE such as Inktomi, and I would imagine Ink would like to see this trend grow?

I'm thinking out loud here, about the future of SEO's and SE's and how they could possibly work / interact together.

Would Inktomi participate in a 'regulated SEO industry' and does Inktomi see a regulated industry growing from SEO's?

How does inktomi see the future between itself and SEO's?

[Inktomi]

Hi all,

I'm working on answers to your questions, I may not always be able to respond immediately.

Alan: Yes, in some cases that fast crawl includes pages not in our PFI index. Of course, that 48-hr crawl is also one of the benefits to PFI customers. We will be focusing less on content networking as a company, our top priority now as an organization is search (web and enterprise). And that page is not wrong, just out of date (working on that!) :) We're working with each of our partners to understand the FTC's recommendations. Since the recommendation applies to the user interface, it's really up to our partners to decide when and how they want to publicize their compliance.

highman: We see SEOs as a really important constituent. Even though some SEOs see it as a game of "us vs. them", as you point out, we feel that informed SEOs can make for great partners. You'll help us make our search engine better and we'll help you get more (and more targeted!) traffic. I'd love to see a closer partnership. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Inktomi.

[ihelpyou]

We see SEOs as a really important constituent. Even though some SEOs see it as a game of "us vs. them", as you point out, we feel that informed SEOs can make for great partners. You'll help us make our search engine better and we'll help you get more (and more targeted!) traffic. I'd love to see a closer partnership. What are your thoughts?
That is a Great answer and one I have never seen from a major search engine. :thumb:
Like highman, I am thinking out loud here......

Maybe form some kind of partnership with the seo's who you deem to be in complete compliance with your guidelines? Those select seo's would be given a specific private url where they can submit questions and get fast answers regarding different things. Those select seo's could be on your list of seo's who have proven themselves to Inktomi with all the guidelines and are the seo's Inktomi believes a webmaster should let submit there url for inclusion, whether it is just a free submission or a paid one.

Like I said, simply thinking out loud and very much 'off the cuff'. :) I really think the 'working together' factor could be a very good thing and might even 'clean up' those seo's who feel they have to use 'tricks and spam' as the only means of getting out their client's good content.

[Great-1]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

I really think the 'working together' factor could be a very good thing and might even 'clean up' those seo's who feel they have to use 'tricks and spam' as the only means of getting out their client's good content.

You just want an "Inktomi Compliant" award, don't you Doug :D

[highman]

We see SEOs as a really important constituent. Even though some SEOs see it as a game of "us vs. them", as you point out, we feel that informed SEOs can make for great partners. You'll help us make our search engine better and we'll help you get more (and more targeted!) traffic. I'd love to see a closer partnership. What are your thoughts?


Inktomi, thanks for the reply, as I see it there are a few major dangers in operating a 'preffered SEO' style partnership, in fact it is so wide open to abuse as to be almost unworkable.

But, I think SEO's have the best opinions when it comes to spam, we can sniff it out a mile off, so maybe there is a role for the SEO in helping keep the index as clean as possible, maybe reporting via a Google (sorry!) type toolbar using a member ID in the data stream, but even then ALL reports would have to be monitored maybe via a random user authority setup?, i.e sending the report to another toolbar user for conformation of 'spam reported'......

thinking out loud again!

Needs more thought, benefits to the SEO? ... points, free submission, air miles ... lol.

What areas do you see where WE could help?

[WebSavvy]

Originally posted by Great-1
You just want an "Inktomi Compliant" award, don't you Doug :D

ROTF! :D

[ihelpyou]

"Inktomi Compliant Award"?

Now there's another good thought. LOL



A little popup window that says:

"This site is Inktomi Compliant and Conforms to all Guidelines". Please visit ihelpyou, Inc for All your Optimization and Submission Needs".

LOLOLOLOL

[MakeMeTop]

I've been thinking of a suitable suggestion and the one thing I really would like to see is a sort of half-way house between the $25 per page PFI and the PPC plan for 1K plus URLs. I often have the situation where I have a client with perhaps 50-100 pages which I would like to submit but have to limit it to perhaps 10 or so. Trying to get them to fork out $2.5K per year is just too much - but I could probably swing $1K if they got their site spidered (say) weekly.

So, something for a single site where there are 50 plus URLs - but less than 1K URLs.

I'm open to suggestions though :)

[Lingerboy]

Inktomi,

I'm surprised you guys have not gone to a bidded, pay-for-position/pay-per-click (PFP/PPC) model yet. With the Looksmart system widely disliked by most SEOs, seems like there is an opportunity there. If you guys offered a no-minimum bid, pay for position, PPC alternative, I bet everyone would jump ship with Looksmart, leaving Ink with meaningful MSN marketshare. Overture does not reach MSN for low traffic terms, so the door is wide open.

How about it?

Chris

[ihelpyou]

I think PPC would ruin their own PFI and regular database they have now.

No one is using the Looksmart advertising agency anyway so they would not be picking up anything new.

[Advisor]

I agree with Doug! If Ink wanted to commit search engine suicide the same way LS did, then go ahead and make the listings all PPC. Then we can all NOT use Ink too, just we we all DON'T use LOOK!

Jill

[highman]

No, No, No, not PPC please

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Inktomi

Our PFI program does not impact ranking, and we *never* exclude results that aren't PFI.

Source: (http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum1/1647-2-15.htm#msg28)


Hi Inktomi,

Google and FAST/AllTheWeb claim to have over 2 billion pages indexed, and we now read that Inktomi does too. (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=47909#post47909)

While that looks great on paper, we notice a big difference in the number of pages actually indexed from various domains.

Please note that we are NOT saying anything negative about Inktomi in light of these findings, nor are we saying anything good about Google or FAST.

We are merely posting some observations here and we were wondering what "criteria" Inktomi uses for indexing the NUMBER OF PAGES from a domain and does it matter how popular it is on how many pages get indexed?

From this small sampling it appears that the more popular (known) your site is the more pages that Inktomi will index and the less popular your site is, that only a handful (if that) of pages are indexed (and even this is not consistent).

We were wondering if Inktomi would like to make any comments in light of this?

Thank you.



Examples ...

ihelpyouservices.com
Inktomi (2) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=ihelpyouservices.com) - Google (66) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aihelpyouservices.com+ihelpyouservices.com) - AllTheWeb (625) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=ihelpyouservices.com&dincl=ihelpyouservices.com)

makemetop.co.uk
Inktomi (7) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=makemetop.co.uk) - Google (91) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amakemetop.co.uk+makemetop.co.uk) - AllTheWeb (19) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=makemetop.co.uk&dincl=makemetop.co.uk)

high-search-engine-ranking.com
Inktomi (2) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=high-search-engine-ranking.com) - Google (73) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahigh-search-engine-ranking.com+high-search-engine-ranking.com) - AllTheWeb (60) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=high-search-engine-ranking.com&dincl=high-search-engine-ranking.com)

ebrandmanagement.com
Inktomi (4) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=ebrandmanagement.com) - Google (11) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aebrandmanagement.com+ebrandmanagement.com) - AllTheWeb (9) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=ebrandmanagement.com&dincl=ebrandmanagement.com)

rankwrite.com
Inktomi (4) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=rankwrite.com) - Google (124) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Arankwrite.com+rankwrite.com) - AllTheWeb (113) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=rankwrite.com&dincl=rankwrite.com)

arachnid.esubmit-it.com
Inktomi (0) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=arachnid.esubmit-it.com) - Google (20) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarachnid.esubmit-it.com+arachnid.esubmit-it.com) - AllTheWeb (0) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=arachnid.esubmit-it.com&dincl=arachnid.esubmit-it.com)

bruceclay.com
Inktomi (2) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=bruceclay.com) - Google (83) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Abruceclay.com+bruceclay.com) - AllTheWeb (104) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=bruceclay.com&dincl=bruceclay.com)



about.com
Inktomi (892,423) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=about.com) - Google (272,000) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabout.com+about.com) - AllTheWeb (2,061,682) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=about.com&dincl=about.com)

yahoo.com
Inktomi (2,608,269) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=yahoo.com) - Google (3,310,000) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ayahoo.com+yahoo.com) - AllTheWeb (686,351) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=yahoo.com&dincl=yahoo.com)

internet.com
Inktomi (14,743) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=internet.com) - Google (131,000) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ainternet.com+internet.com) - AllTheWeb (464,788 ) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=internet.com&dincl=internet.com)

hotwired.lycos.com
Inktomi (5) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=hotwired.lycos.com) - Google (19,000) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahotwired.lycos.com+hotwired.lycos.com) - AllTheWeb (0) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=hotwired.lycos.com&dincl=hotwired.lycos.com)

adventive.com
Inktomi (4) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=adventive.com) - Google (321) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aadventive.com+adventive.com) - AllTheWeb (114) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=adventive.com&dincl=adventive.com)



inktomi.com
Inktomi (24) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=inktomi.com) - Google (29,200) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ainktomi.com+inktomi.com) - AllTheWeb (805) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=inktomi.com&dincl=inktomi.com)

google.com
Inktomi (148 ) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=google.com) - Google (402,000) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agoogle.com+google.com) - AllTheWeb (8,999) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=google.com&dincl=google.com)

alltheweb.com
Inktomi (10) (http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=alltheweb.com) - Google (16,200) (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aalltheweb.com+alltheweb.com) - AllTheWeb (54) (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&type=all&q=alltheweb.com&dincl=alltheweb.com)

[ihelpyou]

According to this:
http://169.207.238.189/

These forums have 164 pages indexed by Inktomi. How are you getting those figures?

Oh, I see what you queried. It should be like this:
site:ihelpyouservices.com

I do believe though inclusion is somewhat based on a site's willingness to pay for Url's. The big .com's out there would never pay in a million years so Ink knows that and goes ahead and indexes many pages.

Those of us smaller fish would be more willing to pay. Except, of course, these here forums which are free from advertising on the site and derive zero income from all the Great content. :D

Inktomi should index as many pages in here as fast as they can crawl them. LOL

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

According to this:
http://169.207.238.189/

These forums have 164 pages indexed by Inktomi. How are you getting those figures?


Hi Doug,

We get the SAME figures when using your syntax as we did using ours ... hmmm?

We are in California, does that make a difference?

[ihelpyou]

Are you using the 'pure inktomi' link I posted? If so, that's really strange.

[Inktomi]

Hi,

When we report the number of hits found for a query, we do not include duplicates and spam in the total. I know some other search engines do, so that might be one reason why you see smaller doc totals when searching Inktomi.

Popularity shouldn't really have anything to do with whether or not a page appears in our index, other than the fact that more popular pages are sometimes discovered faster by our crawler (due to the higher quantity of inbound links).

Inktomi.

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

Are you using the 'pure inktomi' link I posted? If so, that's really strange.

Yep.

Went here ...

http://169.207.238.189/

Inserted ...

site:ihelpyouservices.com

And we get ...


Queried in 0.219 seconds

1 thru 2 of 2 web pages found

Free Search Engine Discussion Forums - ihelpyou, Inc.
Free Search Engine Discussion Forums is discussion forum and message boards powered by vBulletin. Learn about the search engines with this BBS forum.
http://ihelpyouservices.com/forums

Free Search Engine Discussion Forums- ihelpyou Services
Free Search Engine Discussion Forums is discussion forum and message boards powered by vBulletin. Learn about the search engines with this BBS forum.
http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/


Hmmm?

[ihelpyou]

And I get :

20 of 164 pages shown on the first page of results. A whole list of pages.

Does it matter what server database you are accessing when doing a search on Inktomi? The only thing I can think of is "yes", it does matter. Different areas/servers have a big difference in number of pages indexed.

Maybe you are somehow accessing one database, and I'm accessing the bigger database?

Hey Inktomi, whatcha think?

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Inktomi

When we report the number of hits found for a query, we do not include duplicates and spam in the total. I know some other search engines do, so that might be one reason why you see smaller doc totals when searching Inktomi.

Popularity shouldn't really have anything to do with whether or not a page appears in our index, other than the fact that more popular pages are sometimes discovered faster by our crawler (due to the higher quantity of inbound links).


Hi Inktomi,

If you are replying to OUR question, then your answer makes no sense.

We are referring to the NUMBER OF PAGES indexed from a domain.

That is unless, we have NOT queried your database CORRECTLY for the total number of pages found in your database for a certain domain, in which case we apologize for our comment and we ask for the correct SYNTAX to use.

Thank you.

[highman]

2 from here : UK

[JustTrying]

Getting:

1 thru 20 of 164 web pages found

Detroit Metro Area

[Inktomi]

Hi,

First of all, I'm not sure which collection the http://169.207.238.189/ URL is using, since it's not hosted by Inktomi. I will look into it.

Sharon & Roy, the "link:domain" syntax only returns a count of *unique* pages from our index, it does not include mirror pages (e.g. foo.com/hello, www.foo.com/hello, www2.foo.com/hello and www.us.foo.com/hello would all count as 1, even though we know about all 4 copies). Some other search engines return the total count (including dupes) which is why there's some disparity between engines. As it turns out, some of the larger sites also have some of the most duplicate pages. We're considering modifying this behavior in the future, but for now we just return a unique count.

Inktomi.

[ihelpyou]

Very strange, it seems that the eastern part of the US is getting 164 pages indexed while the rest of the world is getting only 2 pages indexed.

That ain't no good attal. :)

[Advisor]

I could only get 2 from Position Tech's Pure Search.

However, Alan's search Search Mechanics (http://www.searchmechanics.com/look/look.htm) program that searches HotBot came up with 164.

I remember having this problem before when looking for the number of pages of Rank Write. You get differing results with that Pure Search page it seems.

J

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Inktomi

First of all, I'm not sure which collection the http://169.207.238.189/ URL is using, since it's not hosted by Inktomi. I will look into it.


Thank you very much.


Sharon & Roy, the "link:domain" syntax only returns a count of *unique* pages from our index, it does not include mirror pages (e.g. foo.com/hello, www.foo.com/hello, www2.foo.com/hello and www.us.foo.com/hello would all count as 1, even though we know about all 4 copies).


Hi Inktomi,

YES, we are quite AWARE of what you speak, but you have still missed our question.

Here, we will try saying it this way ...


---

173 Pages LINK TO the DOMAIN ... ihelpyouservices.com ... in your database
http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=linkdomain%3Aihelpyouservices%2Ecom

2 Pages FROM the DOMAIN ... ihelpyouservices.com ... in your database
http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=domain%3Aihelpyouservices%2Ecom

---

8,767,440 Pages LINK TO the DOMAIN ... yahoo.com ... in your database
http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=linkdomain%3Ayahoo%2Ecom

2,608,269 Pages FROM the DOMAIN ... yahoo.com ... in your database
http://search.positiontech.com/search.cfm?query=domain%3Ayahoo%2Ecom

---


Why the LOW number of pages FROM certain domains?

[MakeMeTop]

OK, doing it a different way I get 72 pages indexed on my site when I use this Hotbot search (http://www.hotbot.lycos.co.uk/result.html?query=makemetop.co.uk&bool=all&z=1111121111111111211&languagefield=any&numresult_field=10&description_field=full&domain=www.makemetop.co.uk&bpo=checkbox&uk=ww&qm=makemetop.co.uk&hs=s) and for Doug's forums 173 pages when I use this Hotbot search! (http://www.hotbot.lycos.co.uk/result.html?query=ihelpyouservices.com&bool=all&z=1111121111111111211&languagefield=any&numresult_field=10&description_field=full&domain=ihelpyouservices.com&bpo=checkbox&uk=ww&qm=ihelpyouservices.com&hs=s)

I know these are not the definitive ways to get all pages - but it gives a pretty good indication of pages indexed :)

I got more of your pages than you, Doug :D

[Inktomi]

Sorry, I erred when I wrote "link:", I really meant "domain:".

My answer still stands - we don't include duplicates in the result totals, just unique documents indexed *from* that domain. Hopefully that answers your question (why we appear somewhat smaller), if not I must still not understand. :)

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Inktomi

Sorry, I erred when I wrote "link:", I really meant "domain:".


Inktomi, no problem, as it looks like we are more confused and misinformed than we originally thought, LOL.


My answer still stands - we don't include duplicates in the result totals, just unique documents indexed *from* that domain. Hopefully that answers your question (why we appear somewhat smaller), if not I must still not understand.


That's your story and your sticking to it, huh? <WINK>

Okay, it looks like we may have been misinformed, so now you can set us straight, thanks.

We were under the impression that one could find ALL the pages listed in a single domain in the Inktomi database by searching here ...

http://169.207.238.189/

And that these results were PURE Inktomi results.

So, is this information CORRECT or NOT?

Thank you.

(If it is not correct, is there a place where we can search for ALL pages FROM one domain?)

Again, thank you for your patience and your time.

[Matt B]

Looks like some good Q & A happening here, I for one am very interested to see how this goes.

Thanks Ink, for coming to the forums - It is very nice to have you hear and it is much appreciated, I think you have done some good PR by just being here. Don't let all of our questions scare you away - I am sure we'll pick your brains as much as you let us.

SO, is the PFI working as a way to monitize Ink? Or is there a change to the business model on the horizon? I am sure you didn't have to read very far to see most of the opinion about Look$mart on this forum. . . If you could give a little insite into the "business viability" and reach, (kind of like we were stockholders in Ink?) :rolleyes:

Thanks,

[WebSavvy]

Doug, here in IL using INK pure search I had just 2 results using both:

site:ihelpyouservices.com
and
domain:ihelpyouservices.com

[Alan Perkins]

From here in the UK I got 156 results for www.ihelpyouservices.com on Hotbot using the JavaScript tool Jill pointed out above.

[ihelpyou]

Amazing that the Ink Pure search has been touted everywhere to check number of pages Indexed by Inktomi, but obviously, it is very inaccurate. :(

[JustTrying]

More results for the pot:

Alan's SearchMechanics HotBot link using www.ihelpyouservices.com I get: 1 - 10 of 60 Matches

Hotbot directly using eiter site:ihelpyouservices.com or domain:ihelpyouservices.com I get 1 of 1 Matches

http://169.207.238.189/ directly using either site:ihelpyouservices.com or domain:ihelpyouservices.com I get 1 thru 20 of 164 web pages found

hotbot.lycos.co.uk using either site:ihelpyouservices.com or domain:ihelpyouservices.com I get WEB RESULTS 180 matches

interesting...

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by JustTrying
Alan's SearchMechanics HotBot link using www.ihelpyouservices.com I get: 1 - 10 of 60 Matches
That's some kind of Hotbot reporting bug. If you start to go through those pages, you'll suddenly find there are a lot more!

[Blam!]

Hello!
I have 2 Inktomi Questions:

1 - I have paid for inclusion, but I notice that the Page is immediatly dropped if the URL is changed, or payment is stopped.
This discourages me from paying for additional pages. If they are already in Inktomi, & I pay to have them updated more frequently, I risk being booted out of the database entirely, unless I "pay into infinity forever" on that page. Perhaps I would like to pay for that page for 6 mos or a year, & then "still want it in the database", but would rather pay for a different page to be spidered every 48.... I can't! Any thoughts??
2 - How about a lower fee for once per month or so updating?
I wouldn't mind $20 per year for less than 48hr refreshes...??

[ihelpyou]

Good questions Blam.

That is one thing that is a flaw in the model. The benefits to paying for a Url to be spidered are not great if that same url is already in the database of Inktomi. There is NO reason to pay other than the fact of being re-spidered every 48 hours. Most sites don't need that at all. Once a month is just fine for most. Even every two weeks is good.

Another problem that you posted is that if you do pay for an already indexed Url, and then you don't renew, that url drops out of the index. You were in before you paid, but now you are not in. Not good.

The model could be 'tweaked' a little to accomodate the small business site owner and other small 'content oriented' sites. Many sites just don't see the benefit of the "pay for one page to be spidered thingy".

The bigger sites with lots of bucks who can afford the 'index connect' and have over 1000 url's is just fine for them. What about the majority of web sites on the internet with 100 pages or less? Those are left out of the game and those make up the majority of great content sites out there.

[gifts4ever]

I hope we can all help each other......

[Everyman]

How about this one:

Results 1-15 of about 2694 containing 'ihelpyouservices'

Here's how I did it:

1) Go to search.msn.com
2) Click on advanced search
3) Enter ihelpyouservices in the search box
4) Enter ihelpyouservices.com in the domain box
5) Click search.

My big site shows over 80,000 this way. I have evidence from the last few months of crawling that this is fairly accurate.

[JustTrying]

Thank you Everyman, that works really well from the few cursory searches I tried that way. I had been trying domain:www.yoursomain.com before with not hardly as accurate results.

[ihelpyou]

Nice tip Everyman!

[ihelpyou]

btw everyone. Server was down for awhile. Sorry about that. Seems we need to find a different NOC or something. Not good. :(

Hey Inktomi, make sure you send your crawler(Slurp) back around if she tried to crawl the last few hours. :)

[ihelpyou]

wow, that was quick. Thanks a bunch Inktomi! LOL

j3173.inktomisearch.com

:thumb:

[Inktomi]

Hehehe ;)

[ihelpyou]

I'll have to hand it to ya, ... you are the sly one. LOL Talk about some great PR! :cool:

[gift_basket_guy]

First I would like to say thank you for being available to answer questions for us all. I can't speak for everybody else but I really do appreciate it.

I recently paid for the inclusion in inktomi before MSN went to Overture/Looksmart and AOL went to Google for their top primary search results. I hoped by paying for inclusion in Inktomi I would it would help me build some traffic in MSN, AOL and all the other engines that pull from the Inktomi database.

With the MSN and AOL pulling their top results from other search engines, what is Inktomi going to be doing to retain its customers? That is, why pay for a URL with Inktomi when its only going to get me a search result on page 2 or 3 when I can go to Looksmart or Overture and use the PPC system to be ranked higher. I hate the PPC system because I think its a rip-off so I would like to see you be more aggressive in the deals you cut with these "major" search engines.

I do not mean to be too critical but I think its something that needs to be addressed.

Thanks. :)

[kingarthur]

Inktomi,
Thanks for coming by to add a more personal touch to Inktomi.
I noticed that the topic of cloaking came up earlier in this thread.
I am wondering when Ink decided that cloaking was no longer appropriate. I noticed in the guidelines from last year that cloaking was never mentioned in the terms of service or the guidelines. I also found an article from our friends at Pandia (http://pandia.com/sw-2001/54-mediadna.html) in which a spokesperson from Ink said that cloaking wasn't necessarily an evil thing and that most of those companies helped provide relevant results. I see that the guidelines now say that cloaking is not allowed, I was just wondering when this took effect and why?

I look forward to your response.

Tom Arthur
Vice President
Calliope Media

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Tom! :hi:

I think Ink changed that about 4 months ago or so. Our Ink guy can correct me if wrong.

I do know they allow some cloaking through their "trusted feed" program but that is 'solicited' cloaking from Inktomi. They can 'watch' the pages closely that way. It's the unsolicited cloaking they do not want. I also think Google is a reason Ink openly states "NO" cloaking now. Google has always advocated that they want the same page a browser sees. That's the only fair way to play it. All engines want their visiters to get relevant results. The only way they can insure relevancy is if the spider receives the same page as the visitor receives.

[Net_Excitement]

bump

is the inktomi guy still around? i'm about to report A LOT of cloaking domains that have flooded the inktomi db and steal the hard work of everyone. Let's see if they'll take action.

[Zinger]

Hi Inktomi,

Another "Thankyou" for visitng the forums.

I also want to know about what happens when my PFI page expires and I don't renew. Will I be dropped?

I am a little surprised nobody has been asking when Yahoo! will start using Inktomi results. Am I missing something?

Once again, thanks for answering our questions.

[ihelpyou]

Well, this thread is over one year old. :) The Ink guy won't be around as Yahoo bought them and yahoo would not allow him to be in here, I am sure.

I would imagine you drop out of the index if you stop paying, and then when the regular spider finds the page again, you get back in.

[JuniorHarris]

Forgot about that one...he'll have to come back as YahooSeeker!~:green: