Ineedhits.com - Latest Paid Inclusion Provider

[Ineedhits.com]

Ineedhits.com has just become the latest Paid Inclusion provider for Inktomi, joining Positiontech and Network Solutions.

So what is so special about our inclusion service that separates us from the rest?

Our inclusion program unlike Positiontech and Network Solutions, has an innovative Click - Thru Reporting facility that records the nature and origins of how your homepage was reached through Inktomi powered search engines.

This feature reveals what KEYWORDS were used to locate your website, and shows how many click throughs that have eventuated. A feature that can be used to fine tune website optimizing for webmasters, combined with the useful 48 hour database refresh.

If you are interested, go to
http://ink.ineedhits.com/

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums ineedhits.com! :hi:

Congrats. Competition is always very welcome. It should keep PT and WG on their toes.

Post your fees here also. Although, I am not interested in paying, other members might be. You can make a signature if you wish.

I am not sure the tracking feature is a biggy though as many sites have stats programs that tell them where hits come from and what keyword phrases are used.

[highman]

Positiontech also dispays click through info and keywords

So what IS the difference, are you cheaper? can you switch not only pages but URL's?

Do you offer us discounts ;)

And finaly welcome, can you advise us where to report inktomi spam?

[ihelpyou]

Yep. Actually, he should have replied to another post in the Ink forum that was going on anyway. That way he would not be perceived as posting an outright ad. There were other ways he could have posted his info.

[Ineedhits.com]

I would like to apologize to all (especially Jim Stob from Position Tech and
Mike Levin), I was simply hoping to let members know of the new Inktomi
Search/Submit reseller. Please accept my apologies, I did not mean to
degrade this useful forum in any way.

And yes I was definitely incorrect: Position Tech does currently provide
Click - Thru reporting.

Kindest,
Customer Service Representative
ineedhits.com

[ihelpyou]

Thanks for your post ineedhits! We appreciate it. Can you post your fees? That would be appreciated as well. By the way, who is Mike Levin?

Doug Heil here. :)

[highman]

hahaha...... wrong forum ineedhits :green:

[Rachel]

Hi Doug,

This is in reply to your questions for us to post our fees.

Submission Prices: $2.50
Consultation Reports: $15 - $35
One Stop Traffic Packages - $50 to $300
Banner Advertising - $40 to $800
Newsletter Sponsorship (currently 175 958 webmaster subscribers) - $100 to $400

Paid Inclusion (Inktomi/hosted by ineedhits.com)

1st URL $30.00
URLs 2 - 20 $15.00 each
URLs 21 - 1000 $12.00 each

Rachel,
ineedhits.com
:cheers:

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Rachel!

I just meant to post your Inktomi fees, but that is okay. You are the same as PositionTech I think. I do not pay for Ink so not sure.

Don't be a stranger here!

[Rachel]

Hi guys,

Oops :) Yes the fees for ineedhits.com Inktomi Search/Submit (http://ink.ineedhits.com) are the same.

Since we are in the ineedhits.com - latest inclusion partner thread, does anyone have any questions to ask of me :??:

I think down the track there will be new services on top of the standard paid inclusion. What types of services do you think would be benefical for both Inktomi and the website owner?

[ihelpyou]

I guess one question I have is if a page is in the Looksmart directory, what real benefit would be derived from paying Inktomi to be spidered every couple of days? Hotbot uses the LS title and description and so does the others I believe. All you can tweak is your content if that is the case.

Also, if you do pay for a site, what if you wish the spider to not come around after awhile? Are you stuck with the 48 hour thing no matter what?

I guess I fail to see the advantages of paying for Inktomi and any real benefits.

[JuniorHarris]

Curious to the details of the referrer tracking...does this track traffic from all search partners?

[Rachel]

Hi ihelpyou & Juniorharris,

I am aware of the LS and INK relationship in regards to INK using LS title and description when it indexes a web site in the dbase. However it is my understanding that INK still takes in to account Meta Data and Page content in its algorithms.

Thus if you change your content or meta data between recrawls, the 48 hour spider refresh will pick up the changes and update you url's algorithms/weighting.

A question, why would you not want to have your site re-crawled every 48 hrs to capture changes? Wouldn't it be an opening for deceptive switching of content and in turn downgrade results for surfers?

Juniorharris, I think it is best to clarify with Inktomi on referrals from Search Partners. (Note: Click-thrus are a recent addition)

[JuniorHarris]

So Inktomi is supplying the referral information...would this also imply it's the same referral tracking supplied to the other inclusion partners?

[Rachel]

Hi Juniorharris,

Yes - exactly :)

[ihelpyou]

hey Rachel, all you say is very true.

I guess my thing is that you pay for Only one page. That is it. NO other pages of a site are spidered. Somehow, via a free way or getting picked up by Ink from another link or source, the rest of a site must be in the Ink index. This is my biggest thinking. In order to have a site fully indexed the "paid" way, every Url must be paid for. You can have all the Url's get in for free if a site is well linked to by outside sources.

[JuniorHarris]

I suppose it really depends on the strategy. One could target slow and free for static content and leverage (paid) regular indexing for changing content. The recipe one chooses, really could depend on the content needs...

[MakeMeTop]

Inktomi seems to have stopped using the LS title and description on many sites in the last 2 weeks (including mine and other sites I look at regularly). The LS ranking influence still stays in place however.

My own site only has 1 paid for page in Inktomi yet (according to HotBot) every page on the site is indexed by Inktomi - so you can get other pages in even if you don't pay for them through Inks normal crawling process. It just takes a looong time!

[JuniorHarris]

Yes, I'm about ready for a new rocking chair...

[Rachel]

Hi Doug,

I see your point. However, in reply to getting 'all the Url's in for free if a site is linked well by outside sources..' It is my understanding from reading Inktomi's site, that it is not just linking well from outside sources, but also from other variables the site must have, the more variables you have the better the chances of getting in for free?

It is also good to consider who the intended target audience the PI program is for...? 1. PI may not be entirely intended for the advanced webmaster who has time and intricate knowledge of how to get the site indexed for free into Inktomi? Customers may, contract someone to do it for them, but again is time, money, accountability for results and usually significantly above the $30 price tag?

2. I think the PI program is intended for web site owners that just don't have time, who want to see their site indexed straight away. These customers are not generally completely, technically minded. What they may want is to have the peace of mind that their site IS included and when. They also want to be able to quickly see the results themselves such as click-thru and search term reporting directly from Inktomi? These type of customers are both desperate and needy, 48 hrs as opposed to weeks is the major lure. Even if it was 72 hours it still beats weeks or months.

3. Having said the above I think a combination of both 1 and 2 will greatly increase the value of services, customer education and SEO/SE relations in the market place as a valuable trend for increasing the quality of urls on the internet.

best!
:eyes:

[ihelpyou]

Yes Rachel, I agree with you. At the same time, those webmasters who wish to get in quickly for $30 do NOT have a well optimized site and hence, they will not rank well anyway.

Kind of a catch 22 scene.

[Rachel]

Yes, agree - that is why we capture these customer's and offer our Keyword Analysis (in depth analysis) and Website Service to help with consultation/implementation. Germane analysis and theme analytical optimization is applied at the highest level to these services purchased together. You may like to look at the Search/Submit FAQ's on our Ink site for Inktomi's answers to this. We have conducted tests with some of our customers either expensed to us (thorough test) or with some paid clients who came to us for help, these customers paid and implemented both their reports from us, after seeing their dismal click-thru reporting. The optimized sites achieved very good placings under some med to highly saturated search terms.

Eg Paid Client. "immigration western australia" (check MSN, AOL, Hotbot) Look for http://home.tower.net/~irenea

Return results - within top 4 (also note for the same search term in google this Url return zilch, that is 0 out of 92,400 websites!!) Demonstrates that the not so popular sites, who have the right variables are rewarded for quality in INKTOMI.

A concept I love, is NOT the Pay for Placement, but the Pay for Quality Improvement model (which ineedhits.com) greatly lives by in our "business to business" services... (unfortunately not our public SEO site, corporate site release on these new services will be happening in the coming months.)

Pay for Quality Imporvement model, means where your site is given treatment because of quality tied in with germane content. This is different from Google who apply treatment to a site because it is mainly linked to heavily. This may rely on mass market linkage and bow-tie theory. With linkage we could question if it is generally relevant to the theme of the pages?? :0)

There are lots of examples for the for and against these search engines I have quoted, but at the end of the day it is the search engine that recognises the need to be continually improving the different aspects of their Databases DNA make up, that SEO's and people love to scrutinize (which really brings out the best in the major SE's... they are guenuinely starting to listen, we shouldn't wrap them over the nuckles for improving)

:cheers:

[ihelpyou]

Okay. That I understand and it also brings me to another concern. :)

Let's say I start submitting to you ALL of my client's, to get them spidered every 48 hours. What would be stopping you from giving my clients "advice" to change things on their sites that I have implemented and optimized for according to the way I do it?

[MakeMeTop]

There absolutely situations where paid inclusion is wonderful. I've just been asked to put up an Irish hotel/pub which is for sale on the Internet. Paid inclusion means that people looking for irish pubs for sale or pubs for sale now find it on the first page of AOL and MSN 7 days after me being given the brief. They already have serious enquiries from the US, Canada and Australia. This, to me, is a golden example of how the Internet can be used to market something and where it would be pretty much impossible to do it without paid inclusion. When they have enough enquiries - I'll suspend the listings and they'll be gone in another 72 hours.

I've also put $25 and £25 on GoTo - and reckon they have a good chance of selling a IR£1,000,000.00 property for an expenditure considerably less than advertising in other media.

The site is excluded from all other search facilities as I want it to be quickly removed when a sale is near - so here is a situation where SEO has been done in an entirely different way to the norm. - and it seems to be working.

[Rachel]

Hi Makemetop,

Good example of using PI to suit needs... :)

[ihelpyou]

Even with PositionTech, my concern stated above applies. Any answers to this?

[Rachel]

Howdy ihelpyou,

Point taken.. And, we have experienced this in the past. I may not have the meaty type of answer for you. But in essence, what we do in these situations is provide the recommendation reports to the customer. We let them know that they have a good optimized site and that they can incorporate/liase with their independent optimizer or other SEO company to see if our reports are of any additional value.

That's the diplomatic answer...;)

[Rachel]

I think with PTech, the intended audience for their software is very much for SEO's or the webmaster savvy. They have great tools for the SEO to help in site reporting and deep crawling the site to come up with different variables as guides for tweaking, we just happen to do this in-house.

Again if you have an optimized site that works, it's telling you (people who have acheived this) that you have a gift for the right formula and use all the tools out there and go into the SEO business :)

ineedhits.com is a company targeted at SME's, we process several thousands sites per month with Human Analysts, our great differentiator. We are not a software tools suite provider. We mainly help the un-optimized tags and customer technical education... :cool:

[ihelpyou]

Yes. This is what I thought. You see, I do not want anyone else advising my clients about anything. If I cannot have my client's full cooperation, everything I do can be compromised. My client could be hurt a bunch from this. Not to mention of me hearing that you or anyone is telling them one thing, and I am telling them another thing. Not good.

We all do things differently. What works for me may not work for the other SEO. This is the nature of the beast. I find myself disagreeing with MUCH of what other SEO's say. Not saying I am right or wrong, but simply saying it works for me.

I have enough problems dealing with a programmer or web site designer, let alone other SEO's or other services that my client may be exposed to.

To tell you the truth, this is the Biggest reason why I have not dealt with PositionTech in the past and why I do not pay for Inktomi.

<added>For the life of me, I find it interesting that Inktomi chooses to use services as partners that pretty much compete with SEO's like myself. Why not have a completely unbiased partner with NO interest in SEO?</added>

[ihelpyou]

BTW, this does not just include Inktomi as it also includes AltaVista. They use infospider.com who also OWNS ProBoost, who is an SEO as well. :)

[Rachel]

Completely understand your views and position.

From what I see it looks like a strategy of Inktomi to tap into very highly qualified customer bases of an SEO to provide PI for, we would do the same. If you had the criteria they are looking for, may be it is something you might want to look at as well.

Pure submission companies are also putting up their hands, like Trellian software, who have just become the 5th partner...

With us however, if you had customers specific to you/they don't have an options to purchase from us at ink.ineedhits.com because we were aware of this reason. But i can see validity in what you are saying...

[ihelpyou]

You see, the bigger an SEO may become, the more clients he/she has. Those are clients that Inktomi or AltaVista may never get to pay to get in. Eventhough you may have thousands of clients who are paying, MANY other SEO's have a bunch more that may never pay.

There should be some kind of incentive or guarantees that could possibly bring SEOs like myself on board. Without them, the market of web sites is in the millions, not thousands. That market keeps getting bigger daily.

[Rachel]

Yes,

Infospider is a tricky one...is their reputation a good one? I'd like to think we do..But, Our reputation was tainted in another forum, because we missed in a QA due diligence process (hundreds of checks for the implementation of ISO 9000), one tiny little section and we were crucified as a spammer which was not even to a SE... (we would have appreciated notification and the chance to apologise that it was not malicious) (you bet we rectified it).

Proboost is an interesting place, I thought that they were purely submission and don't manually optimize the head tags? This shouldn't really concern you if it is the case.

Do you decide not to purchased any paid inclusion program because of association? If so, what is your reasoning behind some SEO's, what do you think they could do? Could I be wrong in thinking that Paid Inclusion programs can provide a service that doesn't have to tie into the partner that is hosting it?

[ihelpyou]

You see, many partners of Ink and the Alta partner are "submission companies". I consider them quite different from what I do. I am an "optimization" company.

You may be surprised to know that for some clients I Never have to submit them to anyone at all except to Looksmart and the DMOZ directory. That is it. This is even if they are a brand new site with no indexing anywhere in any search engine.

I try to not submit a site to anyone. This is a big difference compared to what a "submission" company does.

[ihelpyou]

I know very little about ineedhits, but do know about ProBoost. They do not have a great reputation. They are strickly a submission company.

[Rachel]

Interesting reply on the market of thousands of website...not too sure on Inkomi's total thinking it seems. Would be interesting to hear others people's view on this...

Have to depart, however had lots of fun...

ciao all :hi:

[ihelpyou]

Just want to thank Rachel and ineedhits for participating and contributing good advice and info in the forums. I hope you continue to do so!

Jim Stob of PositionTech should do the same. Can only serve to help members and also help the services as well.

[JuniorHarris]

What I'd like to see answered, is how they deal with spam....especially if the spammer is indeed using a paid indexing partner. I recently reported a spam problem to an indexing partner, which simply passed the buck to inktomi. But why would they pass the buck, if the spam originates from the inclusion program? Not only do I believe search engines should be more proactive regarding spam, but so should inclusion partners accept a more responsible role. I guess money talks...:rolleyes:

[ihelpyou]

Very good question! I too want to know the answer.

If the program is readily accepting spam pages and all, then they should readily accept our emails about that same spam page.

Rachel? Jim?

[trav]

Doug as far as i understood with PositionTech is that u can use your own account to subit ur clients urls and then u are the one that is the contact so clients should not be bothered in any way.

If i misunderstood then i agree that such a service would not help a seo...



Yes. This is what I thought. You see, I do not want anyone else advising my clients about anything.
To tell you the truth, this is the Biggest reason why I have not dealt with PositionTech in the past and why I do not pay for Inktomi.[/B]

[MakeMeTop]

As far as spam is concerned, Ink is removing pages in paid inclusion which are spam if they are reported. In fact they offer people in paid inclusion a 'reward' for finding spam by giving them additional 'free' pages. There are various other new disincentives for paid inclusion spammers coming out soon - but I've been asked not to say more until the official announcement.

I believe that any person can report a site which is in blatant breach of the Inktomi guidelines shown at http://www.inktomi.com/products/search/content_policy.html by contacting spam-abuse@inktomi.com (I need to re-check the e-mail address - but it used to be this).

Having been reported for possible spamming on one site by a competitor with a competing client in paid inclusion, I know that the site concerned is removed from the index pending human investigation and then restored or banned depending on the engineers assesment. I had the site removed and restored within a 7 day period. So they move quickly if it appears a serious report.

[JuniorHarris]

>As far as spam is concerned, Ink is removing pages in paid inclusion which are spam if they are reported.

I guess it depends on who is reporting the spam and who is the spammer! I reported a blatant case of spam almost a month ago, yet the listing remains today! (see: Lesson in spamdexing (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=786))

The page was reported to both Positiontech and Inktomi, however inktomi never responded and Positiontech simply said to contact Inktomi!~ :rolleyes:

Please someone help me on this one, am I mistaken in thinking this is spam?!? Look at the first two web pages listed on the MSN SERPs (http://search.msn.com/results.asp?q=free+norton+antiviruses&RS=CHECKED&FORM=SMCRT&v=1&nosp=0&cfg=SMCINITIAL) for the site in question. It looks like spam to me, unless PT/Inktomi now allow multiple title tags, keyword stuffing and java redirects!~ :shocked:

Apparently they have quite a few of these type of pages:

http://www.betterposition.com/i/4th/4th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/5th/5th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/6th/6th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/7th/7th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/8th/8th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/9th/9th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/10th/10th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/11th/11th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/12th/12th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/13th/13th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/14th/14th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/15th/15th.htm
http://www.betterposition.com/i/16th/16th.htm

[ihelpyou]

That is just awful. That domain should be removed from the registry completely. Very bad Spam.

[MakeMeTop]

I would agree that is obvious spam. What search terms do they come up for that are reasonably high up in the SERPs? I will have a word ;)

Ah - found it in your link - sorry!

[ihelpyou]

trav, no. They would know who my clients were even if I used my one account. With this knowledge, it sounds like they would contact my very own clients to tell them SH^^. I do not want anyone contacting my clients.

[JuniorHarris]

Thanks Barry!~ :)

Sorry to say that was my first attempt at reporting spam, and I was somewhat disillusioned with the engines by their lack of action. It was just such an obvious act of spamming which compelled me to even report it in the first place.

I will admit, originally I did not remember the KWP for which the site appeared, but thought the underlying code in itself would be sufficient evidence. However, after reading your post, I simply searched again using a KWP which they target for that page. They pretty much get top positions for every KWP which they target, er, spam.

[MakeMeTop]

I'm taking part in a discussion group with some senior Ink representatives in about 10 days. I'll use this as a discussion topic!

[JuniorHarris]

Cheers to you! If I ever get across the big pond I'll have to treat you to a few pints of your favorite ale!

[Advisor]

Wow, those spam page examples are pathetic! To think that Inktomi allows them in knowingly is ever more pathetic!

J

[JuniorHarris]

Yes, my point exactly!~ I just did not understand how/why Inktomi would ignore them and why PT simply passed the buck.

[ihelpyou]

Jill, this is something you definitely should bring up next week. There is no excuse for this. Not even if they paid. Inktomi must be hard up to allow this kind of sh.. PT must be also.

PT will probably be in Dallas as well. Someone needs to explain why this kind of thing is allowed. I thought PT reviewed each page? If so, they are obviously turning their head for the money. That is unprofessional and should be stopped. They are on the front lines of SPAM. They need to live up to this and take care of it.

[Advisor]

Oh yes, PT will be there, afterall, Detlev IS PT! I will try and remember to discuss this with him before he hits the bars! (j/k)

I really don't know if PT checks the stuff first, or if that's Inktomi's job. But think about it, even if PT checks it, what's to stop anyone from changing their page after the fact? You submit one thing, but then you have free reign to change it at will while they respider every 48 hours. Isn't that how it works?

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Yep. You are right! I'm showing my inexperience with "PFI". :rolleyes:

Actually, no experience at all with pay for inclusion.

[JuniorHarris]

Still no excuse for turning a blind eye once it has been reported!~ :eyes: