new twist on frames for me [Archive] - SEO Best Practices Search Engine Forums

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lisayoung

30-08-2002, 17:00/05:00PM

I can't seem to get any help anywhere else with this issue ... so I've joined this group. You guys seem so helpful!

I have a SEO client that I initially thought was using frames. Later I found out that the webhost is actually serving a no-frames, no flash version of the page to the engines (well that's what they say). I've had no luck getting this site positioned so far. I'm so confused by this issue I don't know if I'm even submitting the right pages. I have to optimize everything through a template. Please save me from giving this guy a refund!

The site is: http://www.outwardboundpro.org
The host claims that the engines really see:
http://www.outwardboundpro.org/nfgoto

the address for one of the inside pages is
http://www.outwardboundpro.org/goto/What_We_Do

this redirects back to the home page so you don't jump in without the frames.

Does this qualify as IP delivery? Is there anyway I can confirm that they are doing this correctly.

I tried a search engine simulator and it was a mess, none of my optimization came through.

I'm confused about which version of the pages I should submit to the engines or paid inclusion.

The tech support of the host advised me building a site map would be too problematic.

I need some help!

ihelpyou

30-08-2002, 17:11/05:11PM

Welcome to the forums Lisa! :hi:

I could be wrong but the spiders will grab the html between the <noframes> tag. I don't know what that host is saying but it sure does not seem right. That site is frames and the spider only sees between that tag. That is where you have to optimize.

btw, that site should start over again. I have a dsl connection and I thought the page was not going to load at all. A visitor would simply hit the back button and get out of there quickly.

Advisor

30-08-2002, 17:29/05:29PM

This is what the search engines see:

<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
 
 
This
site is best viewed with <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/" target="_new">Internet
Explorer 4</a> and above. 
 
You can download Internet Explorer by clicking on the link below 
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/" target="_new"><img src="http://dream.dreamteamtech.com/Media/Images/IE.gif" border="0" alt="Download Internet Explorer"></a>
 
 
<a href="/nfgoto/">Enter the frameless version of our web site</a> Now there is a link to the framless version, so the engines may follow through to that page. But since the other info is not relevant to your site (download Internet explorer, etc.). They may not bother. It also links to Microsoft, so perhaps the spiders just go there instead.

Are any of the inner pages in the search engine databases?

Jill

lisayoung

31-08-2002, 00:23/12:23AM

there is no way to edit the noframes tag for this site or any of the HTML code directly for that matter. All the editing has to be done through a web-based template. The template gives you fields for the page properties: title, metas, and the body copy. The webhost claims the noframes tag is irrelevant since the engines never see it.
from their help file ....

"The Viadesto software is designed to automatically be compatible with all the primary elements that search engine use to rank pages. These are: Title, Content of the Page, Page Description, Key words

It is important for us to dispel some myths before you proceed.

Myth 1 – Some people believe search engines will not index Dynamic Pages, that search engines won’t follow links with parameters and thus this product won’t have it’s content pages indexed by a search engine.
Answer – Viadesto has purposely created a link system without parameters because of this. A search engine can index all pages in a Viadesto site.

Myth 2 – Search engines don’t deal well with Frames and our product.
Answer – Viadesto serves out a No-Frames, No-Flash version of itself to search engines. This is effectively a non-issue because of this. To view this just type www.yourdomain.com/nfgoto.

I originally submitted the
http://www.outwardboundpro.org/goto/What_We_Do
(this is supposed to be the direct path to this page) to the Inktomi paid inclusion program and it produced a file not found error. When I input this into the browser it redirects somehow to the home page (framed version)
I guess I was assuming they were using a system to detect whether the visitor was a spider and serve the appropriate non-frame version up ...

Perhaps submitting the nfgoto version of the pages does make sense? If not, I have no clue how to get inside pages indexed.
I have no way to stick links to the inside pages in the noframes tag or on a site map.

Can I warn other SEOs to steer clear of this host! I had a conference call with them and my client initially where I voiced my concerns. The webhost made me sound like an ignorant amateur ... said my concerns were not valid and convinced my client this was going to work. Since I had no experience with their system I didn't have any counter points.

I'm presently trying to get the client to provide some articles on team building and perhaps I can add them to the site as static pages outside the frames ... don't know exactly how I can do that through their template .... still judging by the severity of my headache at this moment a refund may definitely be in order or at least a fair bit of alcohol.

Cheers!

Advisor

31-08-2002, 00:38/12:38AM

Lisa,

In a nutshell...

You can't do good SEO to any site if you can't get into the html code.

The host is not telling you everything, and obviously is defensive because they've heard these complaints many times before.

Ask them to show you other sites that are created and maintained in this way that have any search engine presence.

Theoretically, you should be able to get that no frames page in, but if everything is then redirecting, back to the main page, then once again, there's nothing for the search engines to see or read! It sounds like a never ending loop.

I would see if you can get that client to change hosts to one where you can actually work on the html pages by hand.

Good luck with it!

Jill

excell

31-08-2002, 09:23/09:23AM

One extremely unfriendly site from a user point of view... totally dependant on cookies.. I wouldn't like to attempt do anything with it unless I had full control.

To expect you to do anything via a web browser or without providing information on the full set up and objectives of the site is ridiculous!

ihelpyou

31-08-2002, 09:31/09:31AM

These type of hosts are numerous on the net. They will protect their precious product until the cows come home. NO WAY would they say that their product is not search engine friendly. It's their whole internet presence in a nutshell.

Get rid of that ignorant host. Either that, or Demand they let you edit the html on the server. Any site owner who does not have access to his OWN html on his OWN site does not have a Real web site anyway. Certainly does not have a real web host. Let me talk to this clown. I love talking to these type hosts. I give them the getgo. 3 way phone calls are lots of fun.

Advisor

31-08-2002, 12:00/12:00PM

:green: good old Doug and his three-ways (phone calls). :green:

J