SEO eBook Question #3

[Sharon & Roy]

PLEASE NOTE: By posting and contributing to this thread you may be contacted for permission to (possibly) use your information (with your Signature File) for an upcoming eBook by Sharon & Roy Montero titled ...

Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Google But Didn't Know To Ask (http://www.iwon.net/google-search-engine-optimiztion-ebook/)

Posted with Permission from Doug Heil (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2338#post2338)

Please Click Here To View Our Disclaimer Notice (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/t482/s.html)

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Link Farms

QUESTION: What is a Link Farm and why do I not want to be associated with one?


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We offer up the following research for further study and confirmation. We invite your comments and input to come up with some concrete answers as to how Google treats "known" Link Farms and the pages that link TO and FROM them.

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To start off, we would like to offer up this definition for; What is a Link Farm? ...

A Link Farm is any page/site that attempts to inflate inbound links to "member" pages/sites by creating mirror (duplicate) pages of all "member" URLs/links which must then be uploaded to each member's Web server and then submitted to all the Search Engines, at a predetermined frequency, usually monthly or weekly.


And why do I not want to be associated with one?

Because Google has taken special measures to make sure that the Link Farm's domain carry a PageRank of zero (0) and not index their pages, thereby nullifying any and all links FROM the Link Farm to other page(s) on the Web.

We offer up the following so called Link Farm (i.e. linkstoyou[dot]com) for further scrutiny.

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So does this mean that I will get penalized or banned for having a "links page" on my domain and/or for naming a page with link or links in it or having the words ... links pages ... in my Title Tag?

No, not that we are aware of, unless you purposely intend to create a Link Farm to spamdex.

Here is evidence of some pages with the word "links page" in the Title Tag or URL and a few have good to very good PageRank.

allinurl:links-page (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=allinurl%3Alinks-page&btnG=Google+Search)

allintitle:links page (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=allintitle%3Alinks+page&btnG=Google+Search)


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Here's a huge links page (with over 1000 links) with a PageRank of 27 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 27 with 344 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = 31 with 3,410 inbound links

Here's a huge links page with a PageRank of 27 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 27 with 90 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = 31 with 624 inbound links

Here's a very small links page with a PageRank of 23 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 23 with 5 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = 23 with 50 inbound links


Here's a huge links page with a PageRank of 27 <-- NOTE: That Page is auto-redirected from this page.

Here's very small links page with a PageRank of 20 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 20 with 33 inbound links (ALL 33 are from INTERIOR pages) AND the Home Page PageRank = 20 with 6 inbound links

Here's an average size Free For All (FFA) links page with a PageRank of 16 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 16 with 0 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = Not Detected due to auto-redirect with 0 inbound links (<-- NOTE: This page auto-redirects to this page.)

Here's a network Site of Free For All (FFA) links pages and Classified Ads pages with a PageRank of 16 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 16 with 37 inbound links

Here's a network Site of Free For All (FFA) links pages with a PageRank of 12 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 12 with 0 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = 16 with 21 inbound links

Here's a network Site of Free For All (FFA) links pages with a PageRank of 0 <-- NOTE: PageRank = 23 with 0 inbound links AND the Home Page PageRank = 0 with 0 inbound links (<-- NOTE: Even though there are many pages that do link to the home page with various code numbers, none of them "count" - this indicated that the page/site has been banned, thus we can be reasonable sure that Google refers to this site as a Link Farm)

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Here are some facts to consider when pages/sites participate in Link Farms.

The Link Farm Domain linkstoyou[dot]com has 135 inbound links (08/28/01) - [URL removed]

The #1 page of these 135 pages is [URL removed] and it has a PageRank of 23.

The inbound link to Register for the Link Farm must have been disabled (penalized) by Google because it doesn't "count" as an inbound link for that page. - [URL removed]

The same is true for the Help page - [URL removed]

The same is true for the Update page - [URL removed]

There are no pages (The domain has been banned) from the [URL removed] domain listed in the Google database. - [URL removed]


Here is another links page, the #1 Site, which is part of the Link Farm's many mirror (duplicate) pages. - [URL removed] - It is a frameset page with a PageRank of 12 - [URL removed] - This is the actual links page with a PageRank of 0 - [URL removed]

Here is another links page, the #2 Site, - [URL removed] - This page has not been updated since 05/24/01 (over 3 months) - A quick look at one of the links FROM this page TO this page ... Covered Calls Page A free online list of covered call options sorted by yield [URL removed] does not show any inbound links at all [URL removed] even though it is linked from this page that has a decent PageRank of 20. It sure looks like this page/domain has been banned. The page has a PageRank of 0 and so does the domain. Is the reason because it is a Link Farm Member? (meaning it has included certain mirrored pages from the Link Farm that Google has targeted as spamdexing and has therefore penalized and banned.) There sure is compelling evidence to suggest just that.

Another one of the links FROM this page TO this page ... Credit Cards Credit Cards [URL removed] does not show any inbound links at all [URL removed] even though it is linked from this page and has a PageRank of 4 and IS listed in the Google database. Sure looks like Google has assessed a penalty by not counting any inbound links to this page/subdomain. At this time the page/subdomain is still in the database. [URL removed] but Googlebot did not follow and/or index the two links to the interior pages of the subdomain [URL removed] [URL removed] and [URL removed] - The domain [URL removed] is still listed in the database [URL removed] along with 5 other interior pages and the 1 subdomain. It is very interesting to note that while [URL removed] has a PageRank of 0 this same page with this URL [URL removed] has a PageRank of 4 and the interior page of [URL removed] also has a PageRank of 4 but the same page written as this URL [URL removed] has a PageRank of 0.

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[ihelpyou]

hey Sharon and Roy. You make some good points! I would prefer that you did not post the links of link farms in here, etc though. I know they are pretty much ignored but I do not like them and do not want to take chances.

Great points though!

[Sharon & Roy]

Sorry Doug!

We've edited out all the URLs.

For those who would like to have a copy of our research (with all URLs) for further study, we'd be most happy to eMail it to you. Just contact us via eMail and please don't post your request here on the forum, thank you.

[ihelpyou]

Thanks S and R! I know it probably would not matter, but I like to be safe as these forums are getting gobbled up by the Googly robot in a big way. :)

[Sharon & Roy]

You're welcome, Doug, and you are absolutely right in being safe rather than sorry.

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On that note, here is some further thinking on the subject ...

The guilt by association situation DOES affect those who "participate" by placing mirrored pages on their domain.

We sure hope that Google has the foresight to not penalize or ban pages just because they link to a so-called Link Farm and certainly NOT because they may have been added TO a Link Farm domain and/or a member's domain through no fault of their own.

In other words, let's say that Google does penalize or ban ALL pages that are linked from Link Farms and their members domains.

With this scenario, if someone did not like your page/domain, they could simply ADD your URL to the Link Farms and presto, the next thing you know, Google is banning your domain.

That would just not seem like the Google we have all come to love and respect over the years now does it?

So does anyone know what actually happens in such a situation?

[Farhan]

"To start off, we would like to offer up this definition for; What is a Link Farm? ...

A Link Farm is any page/site that attempts to inflate inbound links to "member" pages/sites by creating mirror (duplicate) pages of all "member" URLs/links which must then be uploaded to each member's Web server and then submitted to all the Search Engines, at a predetermined frequency, usually monthly or weekly".


Hi Sharon and Roy,
Can u plz fruther elaborate it i mean make the definition a bit less technical please.
thanx in advance!

[highman]

Hi Sharon and Roy,

>With this scenario, if someone did not like your page/domain, they could simply ADD your URL to the Link Farms and presto, the next thing you know, Google is banning your domain.


The big difference, and indeed why this would not work, is that your site would not link back to the link farm. Now if doug had not removed the links from your first post and someone decided to add this url to that link farm then this site may well have gotten into trouble

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Farhan

Hi Sharon and Roy,

Can u plz fruther elaborate it i mean make the definition a bit less technical please.

Hello Farhan,

Sure, we'd be glad to.

Google will count the quality and quantity of the Web Sites that link to your Web Site. Then they will "factor" in (do the math) their findings to come up with what they refer to as PageRank.

Here is an "example" of how Google "does the math" to determine your PageRank.

Let's say that you have 3 links to your Site and we have 20 links to our Site.

Who's PageRank will then be higher?

If you think it to be our Site with 20 links, then that is NOT necessarily true, because PageRank is based on more than just the quantity of links, quality is also a part of the equation.

So, since the highest PageRank value a Site can have is 40 (look here for details) (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5785#post5785) and only Google, Yahoo & Microsoft have a 40 at this moment (as far as we know), there is a particular "formula" that Google uses to come up with your PageRank number.

Of course, the formula is much more complex than what we will suggest here, but it is just for illustration purposes.

So, if your 3 links are from Google, Yahoo & Microsoft then your total points would be 120.

And if our 20 links are all from Sites that have a PageRank of 4, then our total points would be 80.

Based on that, you would easily have the higher PageRank and your Site would be seen as more "important" than ours when determining PageRank only.

Once someone does a search for say frogs, and our Site is about frogs and your Site is about cars, well then our Site will have a higher position in the search results.

But if both of our Sites are about frogs and all of our "on the page ranking criteria" is pretty even, then the "off the page ranking criteria" (PageRank + keyword related anchor tag text density) will become the deciding factor as to which Site will outrank the other.


Now, a Link Farm is a Web Site that says that they will give you (lots of) links to your Site for the sole purpose of getting a higher ranking in the Search Engines.

The Link Farm we mentioned above says they will guarantee you 500 links to your Site in 30 days.

Well, you might think, wow, even at 1 point for each Site, that is still 500 points more than I have now, and that should put me pretty high up in the rankings, right? You may even be hoping that most Sites would be around 4 or 5 points, so that's 2000 to 2500 points, wow, #1 ranking, here I come.

Well, yes, you would think that IF you did not know any better. That is why we are posting our research on what Google does when they discover these, Link Farms and why you should NOT participate in them at all or risk the consequences, which at its worst would be to ban your Site.

Right now it is Google's policy to either reduce the Link Farm's PageRank to zero and/or ban the Site. The same holds true for the Link Farm's "member" pages.

So what that means is that even if you have 10,000 links to your Site from a Link Farm, your PageRank will NOT increase at all, not even 1 point. In other words, it becomes a total waste of time to participate, and the likelihood that your Site will soon have a PageRank of 0 and/or be banned is now extremely close to becoming a reality.

Also be equally aware of adding your Site to what are called FFA (Free For All) Sites or Classified Ad Sites, as many of them may also have been banned by Google.

TIP: Never ask a Site for a link if they have a PageRank of zero (0).

[ihelpyou]

Yep. All is fine as long as your link is on the other site only. Anyone can link to you whether link farm or not. Just do not link back to them, as S and R said, if they have a PageRank of zero.

[Farhan]

thank you Sharon and Roy!
it was so kind of you to explain all this in such a discriptive manner. thanks once again :)

[Farhan]

Hi Sharon and Roy!
would you please comment this also..

You said that Yahoo, Google and Microsoft have a page rank of 40 each. Does this page rank stands for the home page only or it applies to the whole site? I mean if am linked on the first page of a particluar keyword in Yahoo directory listings, will i have a more page weight thatn the sites on the last page of that particular results, ans same for Google or microsoft.

[ihelpyou]

No. Just the fact your site is listed in the directory, it will achieve the increase in PageRank. Does not matter about your keyword listings.

[MsSearch]

Will having multiple listings for one site within a directory get you a higher pagerank than if you only had one page listed?

[ihelpyou]

My answer would be know, but It is kind of up in the air as to if and how much weight is put on multiple listings for one site.

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by Farhan

thank you Sharon and Roy!
it was so kind of you to explain all this in such a discriptive manner. thanks once again

You're welcome, Farhan, as it is always our pleasure to give as many step by step instructions and details as possible so folks can make specific applications the first time rather than generalizing and having to test and retest many times before the optimum values are discovered.

Originally posted by Farhan

Hi Sharon and Roy!
would you please comment this also..

You said that Yahoo, Google and Microsoft have a page rank of 40 each. Does this page rank stands for the home page only or it applies to the whole site?

Hi Farhan,

The quick answer to your question is that it does NOT apply to the whole Site.

The long answer to your question is that EACH page on any domain is given a PageRank SEPARATE and independant of the others.

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Excerpt From: Google Interview by Fredrick Marckini with Craig Silverstein, Chief Technology Officer of Google - June 2001

Web Site Size

Craig revealed that Web pages are graded individually; therefore there is neither consequence nor value for being part of a larger Web Site. This is an important piece of information to those optimizing large corporate sites or four-page sites - technically, all are equal.

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Originally posted by Farhan

I mean if am linked on the first page of a particluar keyword in Yahoo directory listings, will i have a more page weight thatn the sites on the last page of that particular results, ans same for Google or microsoft.

This Page (http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Communications_and_Networking/Internet_and_World_Wide_Web/Web_Site_Designers/By_Region/Countries/Australia/) in the rankings has a 20 PageRank.

This Page (http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Communications_and_Networking/Internet_and_World_Wide_Web/Web_Site_Designers/By_Region/Countries/Australia/Complete_List/) which is one directory level deeper and contains 429 listings on that page has the same PageRank of 20.

This Page (http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/Countries/Australia/States_and_Territories/New_South_Wales/Cities_and_Regions/Alstonville/Business_and_Shopping/) which is 4 directory levels deeper has a PageRank of 8.

Based on the above research, the short answer to your question is, YES.

Research as part of our long answer would be that, a Site could realistically have a Home Page PageRank of 0 and have interior pages as high as 23. (see below for more details on this)


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Below we offer up further research in light of your question.

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PageRank = 23 for ... http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/
PageRank = 0 for ... http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/

Okay, a quick summary here shows that Doug's Home Page is NOT in Google's database. The reason is because there are NO links TO it FROM any page in Google's database.

Now, as for Doug's (3 month old) Interior Page (with 4 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.ihelpyouservices.com%2Fforums%2F&btnG=Google+Search) inbound links) we see a very respectable PageRank of 23 (or 57.5%) compared to other SEO Forums ...

One (with 360 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.searchengineforums.com&btnG=Google+Search) inbound links) who has been around for 5 years with a Page Rank of 27 (or 67.5%)

Another (with 4,660 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.searchengineworld.com) inbound links) who has been around for 2 years with a Page Rank of 27 (or 67.5%)

Another (with 902 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.searchenginetalk.com&btnG=Google+Search) inbound links) who has been around for 3 1/2 years with a Page Rank of 23 (or 57.5%)

Another (with 1210 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.sitepointforums.com&btnG=Google+Search) inbound links) who has been around for 1 year with a Page Rank of 27 (or 67.5%)

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Now, as for the 4 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.ihelpyouservices.com%2Fforums%2F&btnG=Google+Search) inbound links to Doug's Interior Page (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/) we can conclude the following facts.

Fact #1) A 3 month old page can receive a PageRank of 85% (23/27) of the industry leaders with only 4 links (1 from a Home Page and 3 from Interior Pages and from only 3 domains)

Fact #2) The PageRank of the 4 pages linked are (in order listed, with our own Moderator Jill Whalen's link at #1) ... #1=23 ... #2=23 ... #3=20 ... #4=16

Fact #3) The Anchor Tag Text of the 4 pages linked are ...
#1 = search engine optimization forum
#2 = Search Engine Discussion Forums
#3 = Search Engine Forums!
#4 = Search Engine Discussion Forums

Some deductive reasoning conclusions we can arrive at with the previous facts are ...

1) That a decent PageRank does not necessarily require LOTS of inbound links but just a few QUALITY links. In this case 2 links with a 23 PageRank coupled with two lesser PageRanks produced a 23 PageRank. (Further Thoughts: Would just one link with a 23 PageRank still have produced a 23 or are at least 2 needed? Hmmm?)

2) That PageRank is not determined by the "average" of all pages linked. (23+23+20+16=82/4 = 20)

3) That links with little or no PageRank would actually lower your current PageRank seems to not be evident.

4) That links with higher PageRank COULD actually increase your current PageRank, but how many such links that it would take is still an unknown factor.

5) That links with equal PageRank COULD actually increase your current PageRank is a very good possibility and again how many links needed for any kind of an increase is still an unknown factor.



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searchengineworld.com has a PageRank of 27 - Their #1 linked Page has a PageRank of 27 and their #800 linked Page has a PageRank of 20

searchenginetalk.com has a PageRank of 23 - Their #1 linked Page has a PageRank of 27 and their #650 linked Page has a PageRank of 16

yahoo.com has a PageRank of 40 - Their #1 linked Page has a PageRank of 35 (it's from an interior page on Yahoo - also has 4 interior pages linked from Google, all with a 35)

google.com has a PageRank of 40 - Their #1 linked Page has a PageRank of 40 (it's from an interior page on Google)

Yahoo has 1,140,000 inbound links

Google has 274,000 inbound links


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Doug's Page is #3 out of 280,000 for ... search engine discussion forums (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=search+engine+discussion+forums&btnG=Google+Search) with TWO links that have this EXACT keyword phrase as the Anchor Tag text.

Doug's Page is #3 out of 15,800 for ... search engine optimization forum (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=search+engine+optimization+forum) with ONE link that has this EXACT keyword phrase as the Anchor Tag text. (Note: Jill & Heather's rankwrite.com/default.htm is #2)

Doug's Page is #14 out of 572,000 for ... search engine forums! (http://www.google.com/search?q=search+engine+forums!&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&start=10&sa=N) with ONE link that has this EXACT keyword phrase as the Anchor Tag text.


Below are all without ANY link that has this EXACT keyword phrase as the Anchor Tag text

Doug's Page is #5 out of 312,000 for ... search engine discussion forum (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=search+engine+discussion+forum&btnG=Google+Search)

Doug's Page is #11 out of 179,000 for ... search engines discussion forum (http://www.google.com/search?q=search+engines+discussion+forum&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&start=10&sa=N)

Doug's Page is #8 out of 182,000 for ... discussion forum for search engines (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=discussion+forum+for+search+engines&btnG=Google+Search)

Doug's Page is #1 out of 149,000 for ... free search engine discussion forums (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=free+search+engine+discussion+forums&btnG=Google+Search)


Some observations we'd like to make about Doug's listings above.

1) Those are excellent rankings for only having 4 inbound links compared to his competition which has from 360 to 4,660 inbound links.

2) Here are some examples of what "Anchor Tag Text" was used for the following Sites listed at #1 and #2 for ... search engine forums where Doug is currently listed at #14. With just a few more links with that EXACT keyword phrase in the anchor tag text and we're sure Doug will easily place within the top five positions.
#1 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Asearchengineforums.com&btnG=Google+Search) with 360 inbound links - searchengineforums.com
#2 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Asearchenginetalk.com&btnG=Google+Search) with 902 inbound links - searchenginetalk.com
#14 (http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=link%3Awww.ihelpyouservices.com%2Fforums%2F&btnG=Google+Search) with 4 inbound links - ihelpyouservices.com


Now, Doug has managed to get these very good results without a Yahoo or ODP listing (Has a Looksmart listing) Imagine what a boost in the results he'll get when he attains those listings!

We'd like to suggest ...

Home > Computers and Internet > Internet > World Wide Web > Site Announcement and Promotion > (http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Site_Announcement_and_Promotion/Search_Engine_Placement_Improvement/) - Free Suggest a Site to Yahoo (http://add.yahoo.com/fast/add?2812262)

Top: Computers: Internet: Searching: Discussion (http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Searching/Discussion/) - Add URL (http://www.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/add.cgi?where=Computers/Internet/Searching/Discussion)

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Since Doug's Page is already listed in Looksmart (http://www.looksmart.com/eus1/eus302562/eus317831/eus317879/eus65167/eus590423/r?l&skip=10) but not yet in Google's database, we always recommend that you add the links to your listings in all directories and Search Engines to your Site Map Page, so that Google can spider it and add it to their database and thereby helping you to increase your PageRank. (NOTE: Do NOT Submit these URLs or any URLs for that matter, via Google's http://www.google.com/addurl.html page.)

As a side note on this topic, were you all aware that Jill & Heather's RankWrite.com is listed as an additional resource Site on the Alta Vista FAQ Page (http://help.altavista.com/search/faq_web)? This page has a PageRank of 31. When we first joined their newsletter, we were immediately impressed by that listing when we discovered it was the #1 page listed of over 300 pages and it even ranked above their link from Yahoo (http://dir.yahoo.com/Social_Science/communications/writing/writing_for_the_web/) with only a PageRank of 20, but the ladies had not yet added the link to their Site.

We wrote them to encourage them to list it (because it is not everyday that you can get a link from a page with a super high PageRank of 31), and Jill wrote back to say, "Thanks for pointing out our omission! I'll be sure and add it in this weekend!" The link now resides on their Search Engine Optimization Press Releases (http://www.rankwrite.com/press.htm) page which has obviously helped to boost their PageRank. (Note: The link we just created from this forum page with a PageRank of 20 will give them a boost for the term ... search engine optimization press ... when it gets indexed by Google. Which by the way, they already rank #1 for, but it will also now help with the "EXACT phrase term" since they don't rank at all for that yet, if they include that term on that page. It will not give them a boost for this page (http://www.rankwrite.com/archives.htm) which is currently their highest ranked page for the term at #23 (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&imgsafe=off&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=search+engine+optimization+press+releases&btnG=Google+Search) unless we give them a link like this ... search engine optimization press releases (http://www.rankwrite.com/archives.htm) --- Also it is important to note for your own SEO knowledge, that if Jill & Heather were to include the exact phrase ... search engine optimization press releases ... to that page, that it would even give them a greater boost in the rankings.)


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Armed with this type of step by step info, you can then easily see how you can also apply these same SEO techinques to your own pages to boost your rankings in Google as well as receive benefits for the other Search Engines as well.

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Our SEO advice is very simple when it comes to Google. Give them what they want and stay away from what they don't want. But in order to do that, you must first learn the difference. So don't just believe "everything" you read about SEO. Learn if the source is reliable.

Study and test the best and as far as we are concerned, Jill and Heather's RankWrite is a great place to start your learning, studying and testing. Not that there aren't others, (like Doug Heil, and many others who post here), but it's just that studying how and what these ladies have done with their onpage ranking criteria and their HTML layout and keyword positioning coupled with what they have done with their offpage ranking criteria is EXACTLY (or close enough) to what Google WANTS, therefore they are enjoying the fruits of their labor at the top of the rankings. We would all do well to do likewise.

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[ihelpyou]

As I wipe my brow. ;)

Good post that is full of info!

My PR for the forums should start going higher after the next index. 3 month's ain't very long. :) True that sometimes links play a small part in things.

[Farhan]

The only word i can say for your kind efforts in helping me is
(though i wanted to write a lot) is a THANX:)
thank you very much Sharon and Roy

[ihelpyou]

hey farhan, nice avatar!