Inktomi Keyword Density

[SubmissoR]

Let's crack the Inktomi algo! I know knowbody is giving up exact percentages, but I think Inktomi is now like Altavista or Infoseek of old: Submit your URL (through positiontech), and have rankings in two days with a very small, high keyword density pages.

There also seems to be something good about including << or // oround your keywords in title, but I'm not sure if this works or not..

I got a page in I submitted 2 days ago, #15, on a 3 word phrase today. No traffic at all, even though goto says it gets 1,500 searches a month. I will re-optimize it a bit, and try to figure this one out...

[ihelpyou]

Using GoTo might be your problem. Try wordtracker.

Besides, Ink is not the traffic builder it once was. #15 just means that of the secondary results on the engines, you are #15, which could mean #115 at the engine.

With Ink, density would be hard to get exact as all industries seem to rank on different densities anyhoo. Also, each engine tweaks the Ink database in their own way to produce different results from each other.

[SubmissoR]

Well I put a bunch of pages in through positiontech, and some are ranking nicely and bringing in traffic, some aren't!
The ranking aren't TOO different between aol and msn..

It seems like the shorter pages with the higher keyword density are working well..

I was doing some research, looking at what comes up for the adult keywords, some of those pages are at 40% density!

It seems like it has more to do with The individual page than themeing or link pop.

[ihelpyou]

yes. I am finding Ink partners are changing the algos quite often lately. Nothing seems to be staying very consistant. Not sure why, but I do wish it would settle down a little.

[JuniorHarris]

I always suggest that a target density might vary based on keywords and popularity.

A very low density may work well for less popular terms, with a range that could be very wide. However, more popular terms may be more exact and have a much tighter "sweet spot", or range in which pages perform well.

One approach would be to record the position and density factor of each page. Then the pages can be tweaked (which PositionTech (http://www.positiontech.com) is great for), and the resulting placement and density compared to the previous values. Most likely within a week one could ascertain which direction to head...

[rmridgew]

Does anyone know if inktomi hinders your ranking for a short time following a meta change,,,like new title description or keywords

[ihelpyou]

I have not heard of them doing that mac. Anyone else? That is the whole idea of the engines... to be able to tweak things to improve.

[markymark]

Rmridgew, I don't think Ink do this, no. What you may be referring to is the fact that the 48 hour refresh for paid inclusion is often longer, so the benefits of your tweaking may become visible a little later than expected.

And while we're on the subject - where does PositionTech get those click through figures. Less than 40% of the traffic generated, less than 80% by my calculations .....

[MazY]

I do distinctly remember when I signed up with PT, reading that "excessive changes" is a no-no. I'll try to dig the exact paragraph out.

[markymark]

Maz,

Please do - I don't remember that at all. By the way, you should have my PM by now.

Mark

[rmridgew]

OK guys after hearing so much about them, I have just subscribed to positiontech

The way I understand it, my page will be indexed every 48 hours for the next month $30 (only my home page)

Im guessing that this is worth it, and will it and will allow me to tweak until I get it right, and will i be able to change the title 15 different times until i reach my desired effect?

What are the hidden costs,,,i think im only paying $30

[markymark]

It's spidered every 48 hours for the next year, not the next month. Also spidering and indexing times are not always the same - you will be spidered every two days, but it isn't always true that MSN,AOL,Hotbot,etc will update in that timescale.

Yes, you can keep tweaking but I would advise against overdoing it unless you keep back-ups or notes of every change made, as when Google and Lycos, etc update, you won't know which version of your page they have included.

[JuniorHarris]

Positiontech can be worth the MSN traffic alone, for us they are second only to Google (with Yahoogle a close second).

As markymark posted, the pages are typically spidered every 48 hours, but the engine update may be slightly different. Occasionally they will have problems with the update, but this usually only happens whenever you have just made changes! (kidding) The past few months have been pretty stable with indexing and updating occurring pretty much as advertised.

[rmridgew]

Yeah the plan is to screw with the meta content, My body content is optimized for GOOGLE and since "cloaking" is foreign to me, I wont touch it. Google results shouldnt change much with a new title and keywords...right?

thanks guys,

[JuniorHarris]

I would use the term tweak personally, but I suppose it depends on which direction your listings head. The meta keywords should have little (if any) effect on Google results, however since the Title is displayed on Google it could/should have some effect. Remember that Google will not be affected until they index the page, so you could leverage a month of changes with Inktomi and put the "old" changes back just prior to Google indexing again. Could be tricky, but possible, and then simply assume the PT adjustments thereafter. Hopefully you will find a recipe which works well for Inktomi and possibly have that perform equally well on Google.

[SubmissoR]

better do all your tweaking within 30 days!:

Effective 12/17/01 URL substitution change:
URLs may be freely substituted during the first 30 days of subscription. Substitutions thereafter will be limited to within the domain.

[rmridgew]

what is a url substitution?

[ihelpyou]

That means if you paid for one url in the index, you can substitute another one in your domain only.

[rmridgew]

You may have to slw down a bit for me.

When I submitted my url to positiontech I gave them http://www.charlestonfishingguide.com
not http://www.charlestonfishingguide.com/index.html

when I make a change I do it to the index.html page


I could use an example:confused:

[ihelpyou]

Oh... if you first submitted the yourdomain.com the first time, later on you can substitute another url for the first one, like yourdomain.com/this_page.html or something.

All it does is allow you to change out the Url's with PositionTech.

[rmridgew]

UNDERSTOOD

This SEO is a full-time job.

1 page at a time for me

[JuniorHarris]

LOL!~ Baby steps...we'll all get there eventually.

Since the default document for the domain automatically loads the index.html you would not need to substitute the url, as the same page is loaded (changes or not). It would be a simple matter of preference, and using only the domain may present a "cleaner" listing.

[rmridgew]

word up

[rmridgew]

If I have a page ( within the registered domain) that is not in inktomi, could I use substitution to get it in, even though I only paid $30 for 1 url

[MsSearch]

Yes, you can substitute that page for one that is already registered but then that previously registered page will not be reindexed and may also be dropped from the inktomi index...

[markymark]

MsSearch is right. But there's a couple of things to consider. One - as Doug will no doubt point out - Inktomi will usually pick up on your home page and include it reasonably quickly (dependent on links in to your site).

So, as you have included your home page in the Paid Positioning program, you can tweak that until you are happy then substitute it for another page within the same domain and be safe in the knowledge that the home page will get included (for free) anyway.

However, the second thing to consider is that it is widely accepted that paid inclusion pages get a slight boost over free pages.

[markymark]

Actually, I expressed that last sentence very badly. Paid pages do NOT get a slight boost OVER free pages, they simply get a slight boost. Free pages can still come up in the top ten.

[ihelpyou]

If that is really mark, it certainly ain't right or fair. If Inktomi is truly doing that, they should be shot. They will ruin their database totally with many good content oriented pages being pushed to the bottom of results.

I have not had any problems with this to date and have opted to not pay for anything so far. Hopefully they will not make any drastic changes.

[markymark]

I believe - from my own research- that it is true. But as I said, I didn't express myself very clearly. Free pages are not pushed to the bottom of the rankings behind paid inclusion pages.

I happen to like Ink paid inclusion a lot and believe, like you, that to influence rankings greatly in this way would be fatal. I still maintain that there is a slight boost being given to paid inclusion pages.

Maybe www.ineedhits.com could clarify this ?

[ihelpyou]

You may be right. I do not think ineedhits or Ink would ever verify that though. It would not look good for them at all. For one thing, they stress in their selling material that paid inclusion does not mean you get ranks. Just means you get spidered and indexed. If there is something more to it, then they need to specify it.

[MsSearch]

The 'boost' in paid inclusion is that you can tweak your pages and see the effects of the tweak within 48 hours, thus giving your paid inclusion pages an advantage over non-paid-inclusion pages....

I never believed that paid pages got higher 'priority' than non-paid pages...but then again, I haven't really compared any of my paid inclusion pages to my free listed pages...

[ineedhits]

As far as ink.ineedhits.com is aware from feedback from Inktomi is that Paid Inclusions do not get a boost.

I agree with the above... the "boost" is the ability to optimize and see results 48 hours after.

[nudetravel]

I can tell you anecdotally that paid listings don't get any preference - I have 5 pages on paid inclusion that do VERY poorly in spite of my best efforts :(

[ihelpyou]

anecdotally? All these big words are makin me head spin. :happy: