View Full Version : Linking within multi themed site
junior
12-11-2002, 10:49/10:49AM
I'm trying to put together a link campaign for a client in the printing industry BemroseBooth (http://www.bemrosebooth.com) . There business is purely printing services and products which they provide to 10 specific industries.
Each area of the site acts like a micro site dealing with the particular services and products they have to offer to that particular industry. i.e there would be an area of the site totally to do with the car parking industry and what services and products they offer to that industry.
They want to increase visibilty and brand awareness for each seperate area of their business. What would be the best way of setting up a links page. Build a seperate page for each specific area of the site. Then offer a site within the relevant industry a link on that page, or build a directory of links deep within the site.
Would it even matter if the links pages were seperate, will Google assume that the site is not within a theme anyway, even though content wise it is.
Junior
Sharon & Roy
13-11-2002, 02:37/02:37AM
Originally posted by junior
I'm trying to put together a link campaign for a client in the printing industry BemroseBooth. Their business is purely printing services and products which they provide to 10 specific industries.
Each area of the site acts like a micro site dealing with the particular services and products they have to offer to that particular industry. i.e. there would be an area of the site totally to do with the car parking industry and what services and products they offer to that industry.
They want to increase visibility and brand awareness for each separate area of their business. What would be the best way of setting up a links page? Build a separate page for each specific area of the site. Then offer a site within the relevant industry a link on that page, or build a directory of links deep within the site.
Hello Junior,
Any link campaign should be approached and designed for the benefit of both parties. Therefore we believe it best to create a quality "links page" for your potential partners.
Just a page of links is not very attractive so avoid doing so at all cost. In your case, Junior, rather than explain what we mean, why don't we just show you. Here is a good sample page to give you an idea of what we mean.
http://www.parkingroadshow.org/page3.html
The best way of setting up a links page (or links pages) would be to design a separate page (or pages) for each specific area of the site.
Keep in mind to use YOUR keywords in the "Anchor Tag Text" both out FROM your "links pages" as well as in TO your specific areas of the site. Doing so will increase your ranking consideration for those particular pages.
<a href=http://www.your-domain.com/>This Is The Anchor Tag Text</a>
<a href=http://www.your-domain.com/>Place YOUR Keywords Here</a>
Also keep in mind that we believe that you will get higher ranking consideration for "Inbound Links" that are not reciprocal links. In other words, get others to link to your pages without linking back to their pages. This can easily be accomplished when you create quality content pages that provide unique content that will appeal to those site owners in your industry or related industries.
Would it even matter if the links pages were separate?
No.
Will Google assume that the site is not within a theme anyway, even though content wise it is.
Google is not concerned with the theme of a site. It is only concerned with the theme of INDIVIDUAL PAGES.
Google's algorithm grades pages individually.
The following is what Craig Silverstein, Google's Chief Technology Officer revealed ...
Web Site Size
Craig revealed that Web pages are graded individually; therefore there is neither consequence nor value for being part of a larger Web Site. This is an important piece of information to those optimizing large corporate sites or four-page sites - technically, all are equal.
Source: http://phh.virtualave.net/search_engines/011.shtml
We strongly recommend that you limit your "links pages" to just a few (5-10) outbound links. Simply create additional pages if you have LOTS of links. The main reason for doing so is that you provide your link partners with a greater amount of PageRank.
The following is what Craig Silverstein, Google's Chief Technology Officer pointed out ...
Craig pointed out something very interesting during our talk: External links that you grant from a particular page on your Web site can become diluted. In other words, if you place 10,000 links to other Web pages from a particular page of your Web site, each link is less powerful than if you were to link to only five other Web pages. Or, the contribution value to another Web site of each individual link is weakened the more you grant.
Source: http://www.searchnewz.com/2001/0905.html
Here are some insightful tips by Craig Silverstein, Google's Chief Technology Officer, to keep in mind when putting together a link campaign.
Craig Silverstein, Google, said they wanted to use a more human process to determine if a site had value related to particular keyword phrases. Looking at meta data, "We began developing a mathematical way to determine if others think your site has value."
Google evaluates the number of incoming and outgoing links to a site, the circular associations of linking around the Web and finally at their data related to communities of Web sites, local areas with unique themes in common.
So for good ranking, "If you make it easier for us we like you." Be associated with reputable sites, make sure those sites have keywords related to you, be targeted in your keywords throughout the site, and have theme-conscious, explanatory text around your keywords and links.
Source: http://www.acws.com/information/linking-link-analysis.html
Keep in mind that PageRank does not consider outbound links. Therefore, the links on your Web page to other sites across the Web have no impact on your PageRank score. However, outbound links are important for establishing your page's reputation as a source, an "authority" on a topic. Furthermore, remember that PageRank is conducted on a page-by-page basis, thus different pages within one domain are likely to have unique PageRanks. It should be pointed out that PageRank does consider links that are within the same domain. Hence, pages within a domain linking to another page within that same domain impact PageRank - if there is a page in your Web site that all the other pages of your Web site link to, it will enjoy a higher PageRank score and may rank better than other pages in your Web site. When you consider that most Web pages have a link to "home" its no wonder that a site's home page can enjoy a higher ranking than internal pages.
Source: http://www.searchnewz.com/2001/0905.html
junior
13-11-2002, 04:45/04:45AM
Sharon & Roy, thank you :thumb:
The information you've given me is great. That's the reason why I keep coming back to this forum, there's always people willing to help you with your problems when they can.
:cheers:
Junior
Sharon & Roy
13-11-2002, 05:20/05:20AM
Originally posted by junior
Sharon & Roy, thank you :thumb:
The information you've given me is great. That's the reason why I keep coming back to this forum, there's always people willing to help you with your problems when they can.
:cheers:
Hi Junior,
You're welcome, and a BIG thank you to you for your compliment and for acknowledging this wonderful forum that we were personally invited to join by the host with the most, Mr. Doug Heil, himself, well over a year ago, and we have enjoyed every minute of posting and reading all of the teriffic advice and opinions from everyone who has and is contributing.
Your Friends,
Sharon & Roy
Advisor
13-11-2002, 08:52/08:52AM
Good info.
Welcome back, S&R! :hi:
Jill
ihelpyou
13-11-2002, 09:05/09:05AM
Yes s and r, welcome back!
Where the heck ya been anyway? DO NOT be a stranger EVER again. :D
excell
13-11-2002, 10:57/10:57AM
"Google is not concerned with the theme of a site" Um where the heck is that coming from?
Advisor
13-11-2002, 11:01/11:01AM
Originally posted by excell
"Google is not concerned with the theme of a site" Um where the heck is that coming from? They're not.
Jill
excell
13-11-2002, 11:14/11:14AM
:) very interesting LOL
I find there is a big difference between concentrating on *PR* number and actually being themed and linked well into appropriate *neighbourhoods*
Rankings via theme outway PRnumber from my view.
IMO integration into the web is always beneficial and linking out to others is just as valuable as trying to pump up others linking to you.. if done well (of course)..
Jill if google is not interested in theme how do you explain the similar page feature and the other publicly accessible information on the subject by Clive and how they figure it?
junior
13-11-2002, 11:21/11:21AM
I'm getting a wee bit confused here. If google is only interested in the themes of individual pages and your site has 10 pages all on seperate themes, then you wouldn't get any extra credit with Google even if you had a 10 page site with every page on the same theme.
Advisor
13-11-2002, 11:25/11:25AM
Originally posted by junior
I'm getting a wee bit confused here. If google is only interested in the themes of individual pages and your site has 10 pages all on seperate themes, then you wouldn't get any extra credit with Google even if you had a 10 page site with every page on the same theme. You are confusing related keywords, keywords in links pointing to pages, and a few other things with "theme."
You could absolutely have a site that had 10 different pages all talking about 10 different things. If you optimized it correctly, each page could rank high for it's various keyword phrases.
Of course, having one site with related pages is easier to optimize as it would make more sense to interlink the pages. I wouldn't consider this "theming" however. It's just making a site that makes sense!
Jill
excell
13-11-2002, 11:26/11:26AM
When you say "extra credit" do you mean actual rankings or PR number?
junior
13-11-2002, 11:26/11:26AM
Thanks Jill :)
When you say "extra credit" do you mean actual rankings or PR number?
I was under the impression that if a site was contained with in a theme i.e. Keywords, content , links, links text etc. that this would make it easier for Google to establish what the theme of the site was. And if your site was in line with the algorithm Google use to establish if a site is themed you would get extra credit i.e PR.
Am I wrong?
ihelpyou
13-11-2002, 11:40/11:40AM
PR = link quality and number.
Has nothing to do with any theme. Oh sure, Google can determine if all pages indexed all pertain to a similar thing, but as far as if Google uses this in the algo(themes), is very hard to say. I do think it helps getting ranks on more combinations of terms within that basic theme of the site.
excell
13-11-2002, 11:48/11:48AM
hmmm.. think we are tripping over each other and terms
What does PR matter in comparision to overall rankings?
It matters but not as much as some think... If you are shooting for a high PR just for the sake of it and missing out on other aspects of high ranking then it is possible that you will not rank so well with a high PR site... :)
ihelpyou
13-11-2002, 11:55/11:55AM
My post was not talking about PR. :)
I agree with you on this.
Sharon & Roy
14-11-2002, 03:58/03:58AM
Originally posted by Advisor
Good info.
Welcome back, S&R! :hi:
Thanks, Jill and it's nice to have some time to post a bit.
Originally posted by ihelpyou
Yes s and r, welcome back!
Where the heck ya been anyway? DO NOT be a stranger EVER again. :D
Thanks Doug! And we'll always be around, but we may not always have the time to post messages which we enjoy doing when time allows.
Sharon & Roy
14-11-2002, 04:05/04:05AM
Originally posted by excell
"Google is not concerned with the theme of a site" Um where the heck is that coming from?
From Craig Silverstein, Google's Chief Technology Officer who says ...
Web Site Size
Craig revealed that Web pages are graded individually; therefore there is neither consequence nor value for being part of a larger Web Site. This is an important piece of information to those optimizing large corporate sites or four-page sites - technically, all are equal.
Source: http://phh.virtualave.net/search_engines/011.shtml
excell
14-11-2002, 04:40/04:40AM
Just doesn't go with this info:
this information (http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/02/sd0613-links.html)
or my experience :)
Sharon & Roy
14-11-2002, 04:43/04:43AM
Originally posted by junior
I'm getting a wee bit confused here. If google is only interested in the themes of individual pages and your site has 10 pages all on seperate themes, then you wouldn't get any extra credit with Google even if you had a 10 page site with every page on the same theme.
Hi Junior,
YES, that is absolutely correct.
The word "theme" is very confusing and misleading to those who don't fully understand Google's algorithm.
For example, let's just say that you have a 10 page site and the theme is ... cars.
Now, would you expect all 10 pages to rank 1 through 10 for the keyword ... cars?
What if you had ONLY 1 page with the keyword ... cars .. on it and the other 9 pages used the keywords ... vehicles ... and ... autos ... and ... automoblies?
All pages are still on the same "theme" right?
If you bought into the MYTH that Google or any so-called theme based search engine will give you "extra credit" for having ALL or MOST of the pages on ONE domain on a specific theme, then we suggest you "buy out" right now, because it is utter nonsense.
Google grades a page on its INDIVIDUAL merit, such as ALL the words that are "ON THE PAGE" and ALL the words that are "IN THE ANCHOR TAG TEXT" of the links that point to that page. It does not matter what words are on the OTHER pages of that domain or of the domain of the pages that point to the page.
As Jill mentioned, you can have a 10 page site with a "theme" of ... animals ... and rank #1 for each page and all WITHOUT ever having the keyword ... animal ... on any of the pages.
For example ...
http://www.animals.com/cat
http://www.animals.com/chicken
http://www.animals.com/cow
http://www.animals.com/dog
http://www.animals.com/goat
http://www.animals.com/horse
http://www.animals.com/lamb
http://www.animals.com/mule
http://www.animals.com/pig
http://www.animals.com/sheep
SEO TIP: Optimize INDIVIDUAL Webpages and NOT a WHOLE Website.
junior
14-11-2002, 04:53/04:53AM
SEO TIP: Optimize INDIVIDUAL Webpages and NOT a WHOLE Website.
Thanks S & R, I think I've been getting to hung up on the word theme and have possibly assigned it more importance than is due.
Thanks again for the tip.
Junior
Sharon & Roy
14-11-2002, 05:18/05:18AM
Originally posted by excell
Just doesn't go with this info:
this information (http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/02/sd0613-links.html)
Sure it does.
Below is what Craig Silverstein said (let's call this Quote-A) on the page you quoted ...
Craig Silverstein said Google from the outset wanted to use a more human process to determine if a site had value related to particular keyword phrases. Looking at meta data, he said "We began developing a mathematical way to determine if others think your site has value."
Google evaluates the number of incoming and outgoing links to a site, the circular associations of linking around the Web and data related to communities of Web sites, trying to identify local areas with unique themes in common.
According to Silverstein, it's relatively easy to get good ranking in Google. "If you make it easier for us we like you," he said. He stressed that you should be associated with reputable sites, making sure those sites have keywords related to yours. It's also crucial to use targeted keywords throughout your site, and have relevant explanatory text around your keywords and links.
Below is what Craig Silverstein said (let's call this Quote-B) on the page we quoted ...
Web Site Size
Craig revealed that Web pages are graded individually; therefore there is neither consequence nor value for being part of a larger Web Site. This is an important piece of information to those optimizing large corporate sites or four-page sites - technically, all are equal.
Source: http://phh.virtualave.net/search_engines/011.shtml
Now, let's evaluate what was actually said.
First we need to know if you believe that what Craig Silverstein says is ALL true? Do you? Or do you think that some of what he says is true and some of what he says is not true?
If you do believe that what he says is ALL, then ...
1.) Both Quote-A and Quote-B are true.
2.) Web pages are graded individually.
So if Web pages are graded individually, that means that other Webpages are NOT used in the grading process, therefore ruling out a "themes" algorithm.
If you mean the "theme" of the TEXT IN THE LINKS that point to a page then we agree, if you don't then we cannot agree.
Now, if you are referring to this ...
It's also crucial to use targeted keywords throughout your site, and have relevant explanatory text around your keywords and links.
... In an attempt to make a "case" for Mr. Silverstein saying that Google's algorithm grades the site's theme, then you are reading into the text.
Likewise if you are using the following ...
Google evaluates the number of incoming and outgoing links to a site, the circular associations of linking around the Web and data related to communities of Web sites, trying to identify local areas with unique themes in common.
... To make a case, it too, is reading into the text, because if you believe that everything Mr. Silverstein says is true then you cannot get around the fact that ...
Web Pages Are Graded Individually
Which then dispells the "themes" algorithm.
excell
14-11-2002, 05:40/05:40AM
I go more by what works for me than analysing what someone said and what someone else said about what someone said.. :)
Sure I read all the bits and pieces and match it up to my working experience etc.
As long as it works it doesn't really matter.
I also agree that sites with multiple themes can work really well and that you can optimise single pages for success, it just helps one heck of a lot if they have a key word that goes with the parent site... it's super.
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