Paypal Nightmare !! #*!#*

[kneelsit]

Hi all,

I just tried to order some software from a website which used
Paypal as the payment mechanism . What a mess. Honestly it is the most complex process I have come across.

Maybe the site owner is partly at fault but I find the paypal method of needing to recall you email address used and what password you used at the time you first set up an account with them is quite annoying. Others have also complained about the difficulty of making a payment on the site.

At one time I had considered putting Paypal on my own site as an alternative or additional method and founld difficulty then in working out their instructions. I also do NOT appreciate the lies they tell about the official exchange rate only applying to million dollar transactions to justify them whacking an extra charge on international payments received by a merchant not resident in the U.S.

This most recent experience has only reinforced my decision to avoid them like the plague.

[ihelpyou]

Very true Greg. I had a similar experience a long time ago and will never order anything from a site if all they offer is a paypal payment.

I know one of the directories we feature in here only provides that form of payment. They will not be getting any "paid" submissions from me because of this.

Paypal is a third party middleman. I truly don't understand what is so tough about being your own merchant. The setup cost is next to nothing and sometimes zero. You are setup within one week.

[polarmate]

I was under the impression that it is the recurring costs that are the issue and not the setup cost. It has been a while since I looked into this though. The charges look like:
- a per transaction fee
- a monthly statement fee
- a gateway fee
- minimum monthly fees to meet if the monthly sales volume is not met
- an annual membership fee in some cases
- a minimum contract period in some cases
- a site survey fee may apply before approval if the sales volumes are high
- cancellation fees may apply
- a discount rate. Some companies just charge a high discount rate instead of the monthly charges.

And then there are the standard credit card issuing company's fees.

Usually if the sales volumes are low to begin with that encourages folks to go with Paypal. I think the concept of verified accounts also adds to the popularity of Paypal.

Personally I haven't had any problems using Paypal but then this has been mainly to pay for auction winnings and I have not used their cart on any web site. Their cart looked quite easy to work with though but I never bought anything...I do know that we avoided Paypal's cart because we did not want to lose any credibility and be regarded as an auction site - but then this decision was made well before my time so I haven't looked into the pros and cons of it.

I think Deb mentioned that she is using Paypal. She may have some thoughts to add to this.

[ihelpyou]

You can be a merchant right now with zero setup fee and I am paying in total:

gateway fee = $10
statement fee = $10
discount rate = 2.40%
transaction fee = .20

Very cheap when you consider the credibility issue and all other issues involved with third party provider. One issue that comes to mind is the fact your money is not FDIC issured. A biggie in my book. Another pro of being your own is the fact on every transaction your money is in your checking account of your choice within a couple of business days whether the amount is $1.00 or $5000. It is automatic. NO one sees who your customers are except 'you'. Especially not a third party who is simply a middleman for the funnelling of money between "your" customer and you. Money should be transferred directly between you and your customer.


oh, if I'm not mistaken, if your customer ends up deciding he did not like your service or product, can't he simply ask Paypal for his money back?

Visa/mastercard actually contacts me if this ever occurs. They Will not simply refund the money without getting the merchant's view of the story first. I also know in most instances, the merchant is usually right whether they delivered a product as promised or they 'did' do the work they said they would do. Also know that any merchant who has too many requests for something like this is dropped as a merchant. There are bad people out there. I have been a merchant going on 5 straight years with the same provider.

[Advisor]

In my role as a consultant, I generally only accept checks.

However, I do have a PayPal account that I opened when they first started. I have made payments through PayPal to some of my vendors without a hitch.

Occasionally, I have a client who wants a phone consultation and asks about credit card payments to speed things up. I tell them if they already have a PP account, we can do it that way. It also comes in handy for newsletter sponsorships. But I only use it for things that cost under $1000 generally. I've never once had a problem with them.

The costs of getting a merchant account for a consultant just doesn't seem worth it. I would prefer to just get checks most of the time. If they're from another country, then wire transfers usually work fine also.

I never leave money in my PP account and always have them put it directly in my account the moment it shows up at PP.

J

[scottiecl]

Doug-

Can you post who you use? That is the best deal I have seen and I spent most of today looking for payment processors.

We started out with Paypal but found that people did not want to have to set up a paypal account to use a credit card with us. I think it does lower your credibility as the *only* method of payment.

We went to a company called PaySystems that is a 3rd party processor whom I despise. Their "fraud protection" means that they will void a transaction 3-4 days after they have processed it. Try and get your money from the customer then!! Talk about unprofessional. Often the void was due to a "free" e-mail address or an unverifiable phone number.

Moved to Propay, which I like, but it is a card processor only (no online transactions) and it has very low monthly maximums. You can get the money in a few days and they do not charge a transaction fee- only a .35 fee when you move the money to your account.

I also use Mal's E-commerce for transactions that I pass along to other companies to process and I LOVE it. Very easy to use and lots of options. I can then process the transaction in ProPay or send it to my vendor to complete the transaction. (Thanks for the tip, Kal!) I will probably buy their order management software this week.

However, I signed a deal this week where we will be selling a product direct for a company and we have to process the payment before we pass the order along at about $2000 per transaction so I need a good merchant account with a low discount rate- 2.4% sounds great Doug.

If you don't want to post it for some reason, can you PM me?

:) :) :) THANKS! :) :) :)

[scottiecl]

oh, if I'm not mistaken, if your customer ends up deciding he did not like your service or product, can't he simply ask Paypal for his money back?
Only within 5 days. Then the merchant is charged a fee to refund the transaction.

[ihelpyou]

Oh, I use www.cardservice.com. They are one of the largest and oldest on the net. They have their own gateway called www.linkpoint.com

Real time transactions accepting visa, mc, amx, diners/cart blanc, jcb. Real time check acceptance. Automatic recurring billing processing. All the features you can think of. They also interface with most major shopping carts and affiliate programs nicely.

[Blue]

Cardservice/Linkpoint also have a virtual "POS" (Point Of Sale) terminal. It's like a card swiper except you manually input the CC info online.... Great for when you have a client on the phone and want to close the sale then and there.

[WebSavvy]

Yeah PM, I do use PayPal. Greg has bought services through me paying via PayPal back about 6 months or so ago. :) I've been using them for a few years now simply because with a digital product (non-tangible goods) it cuts down on the amount of fraud chargebacks that people do once they have gotten what they paid for.

I ran an affiliate program for a while too, but had some affiliates who were doing fraud transactions out of Bulgaria, so I just ditched the whole affiliate program.

It's better if it's just all my site, my business, and offered solely by me.

I've never had any problems with PayPal whatsoever. I used ProPay for a while, but discontinued it because it was too easy for "buyers" to commit credit card fraud with.

Now that I'm getting into more things like web hosting, and a search engine I'm launching soon, I will probably switch payment methods to simply handle the higher volumes of transactions I'm getting now.

[Kal]

Originally posted by Advisor
I've never once had a problem with them.
J Me either. I keep reading about people having problems with PayPal and I'm wondering whether many of these stem from the way web sites that use PayPal set up their payment pages. I have been using them now for about 18 months with no problems whatsoever. I find them very convenient because I simply cannot afford to become a credit card merchant (Doug the fees in the U.S. may be cheap, but not in Australia or New Zealand).

Plus PayPal offer insurance, ability to accept payments in foreign currencies, very fast withdrawal to your bank accounts, linking to bank accounts in multiple countries and secure transactions. I simply cannot fault them. Things seem to have become even more efficient since they were bought by eBay. I think they are under close scrutiny and must meet certain guidelines now. We also accept cheques, but PP gives us the ability to accept payment via credit card, foreign checking accounts or direct deposit as well, which is super convenient when you have clients in multiple countries.

I don't have a problem with their 4.5% transaction fee, the only beef I have with them is their foreign exchange rate which tends to rip me off at least a few cents on the dollar :rolleyes: .

[kneelsit]

Doug those figures you quoted :-
>>>gateway fee = $10
statement fee = $10
discount rate = 2.40%
transaction fee = .20<<<<

Does that statement fee apply to each transaction?
Currently my Card Service Mob here in Oz. charge me 4% on each transaction Amex is slightly less at 3.5%

Unfortunately we don't have the competition between banks that you have over there - only 5 major banks so they have you by the short and curlies.

Still much less than 7.5% charged by clickbank. Paypal are the same I think.

[polarmate]

Greg,

The statement fee is usually monthly for a statement listing your monthly activity. There is a per transaction fee - in Doug's case it is 20 cents per transaction. Some merchants just charge a higher monthly discount rate and are done with it - others break it up.

I found this web site very helpful in explaining how credit card processing works, online and otherwise: http://www.merchantinfoweb.com/index.htm

We steered away from real-time processing as our volumes and margins do not justify the additional charges. We have a secure check-out page but our credit card processing is manual. It works for us as we get a lot of fraud from certain countries.

And, unlike Doug's experience, our experience has been the reverse in that the verdict is not usually in favor of the merchant. To begin with, the fact that we do not have a signature goes against us. If the shipping and billing address are different, that goes against us, too. We've been burned so we prefer to go the manual route. It could be different for consultants as they may not have physical goods to deliver.

[ihelpyou]

hey Greg, the statement and gateway fees are both per month.

[scottiecl]

Hey Doug-

If I sign up, they will give you a credit! If they give me the same terms as you, I will be signing up.

[Dan0]

Paypal charges me 2.2% plus $.30 per transaction. Basically the difference there is pennies. But I have no recurring charges, and they handle multiple currencies with ease. I primarily use this for partnerships, special pricing offers, etc.

I also use Clickbank, as the primary payment for my book. They manage my affiliate program for me, and I get new affiliates through Clickbank all the time.

The major advantage for me, with a one-person shop, and a no-questions-asked guarantee, is that Clickbank will refund a transaction at the customer's request without requiring my approval. I've only had two refunds, but the service is much appreciated.

[ihelpyou]

No, I will not get credit.

I don't know. Remember that I've been with them along time. Rates have gone up on me but I'm not sure what a new merchant rates are now.

Call them to see. They are very helpful.


Oh, that discount rate is for visa/mc.

AmerX, diners club, and jcb have their own rates and are separate.

[scottiecl]

I talked to John, he's very nice, similar deal! I am going over the details now. Everything looks very good.

Yes, there is some sort of promotion this month where you will receive a credit. I'll get more details when I call them back.

[OptWizard]

PayPal is awesome have been using them for a while without any problems...

I tend to agree it may be how website has PP set up...

[DLSWeb]

Hello,
My understanding is that there are only a handful of true credit card payment processors, then lots of resellers. A few that come to mind is Humbolt Bank, Wells Fargo and First "something" of Beverly Hills.

Probably each of these have their recommended gateways to use but will work with several different gateways. I have been pleased with Authorize.net except that they do not offer recurring payments.

If anyone has come across a good one that offers a referral fee I would love to know. I signed up for one but then found out they charge a $200 set up fee so I would not recommend.

Larry
DLSWeb
DLS Web Hosting (http://dlsWebHosting.com)

[scottiecl]

Welcome to the forums! :hi:

You can make up a signature file in your profile and it will display with every post you make. Click on "User CP" at the top of the page and then I think it is "Change Profile".

Good to have you here!

[nitewing2]

I was using First bank of beverly hills and they sold me to ipayment....they are rather high but I am still able to manully process all my credit cards. I use the auth.net software but It is ipayment.

Polarmate,
what company are you using? It sounds like what I would like to look into.

I use to use paypal until my son, who also used paypal lost his back account number and someone was living it up in hong kong off his bank account. Our local bank got his money back though so things worked out for him.

Have any of you read the paypal wall of shame? It is now being updated with the newest atrocities committed by pay pal

http://www.paypalwarning.com/WallOfShame/Default.asp?Page=21


Ann

[Blue]

For those using PayPal, I would recommend that you withdraw any monies payed to your PayPal account immediately.

I also recommend that you use a second bank account for PayPal, and after the money has been deposited into your PayPal bank, that you immediately transfer it to a second bank account.

[nitewing2]

Very good advice, Blue.



nitewing2

[maninderwalia]

Hi!
I found the following
http://www.moneybookers.com
and seems something similar to Paypal might be all you guys can try out and suggest if its useful.

Regards,
Maninder

[nitewing2]

Actually it starts off with a lie! Moneybookers states you do not have to have an account to receive money and goes on to tell you on another page that to receive the money you must sign up for an account. Sounds kind of shady to me.



nitewing2

[ihelpyou]

Hey DSL, I used authorize.net for over 3 years. Was Very happy with them but NO automated recurring billing. I switched to www.linkpoint.com and now am happy.

[loki]

is it too late to resurrect thsi thread?

i run a small site that sells subscriptions that are billed on the 25th of each month. until now i collect the cc details myself and process the charges each month on my own point of sal machine (i can swipe a card through, or just punch in the number and expiry and amount).

the monthly fees are small, 10-12 euros (around usd 8-11).

it takes a while to process all the subs, there's always some fraudulent ones that i simply cancel, a few that become maxed out, etc.

i also feel if i got a 3rd party (like worldpay) to rpocess the payments, a lot more people would have the confidence to sign up.

payments need to be recurring until the client cancels the service.

can anyone recommend a company (hopefully that will handle billings in euros and payments to EU bank account) that would fit these requirements?

TIA

ps i', hoping that the older members here will be up to date with 3rd party providers but i guess i should start a new thread with a more appropriate subject, correct?