META tags

[Aussies-Online]

It's worth noting, that of the four most popular search engines -- Google, AltaVista, FAST, and Inktomi -- only one, Inktomi, still indexes Web pages using the META KEYWORDS tag. Some people, including Danny Sullivan of Search Engine Watch, advise us not to bother writing META tags for the search engines (though conversely, it's probably not worth the effort to remove them from your existing pages).

On the other hand, it's worth noting that the Inktomi engine powers a number of smaller search engines, and other search engines such as Teoma may still be using META tags to help index their pages. Plenty of intranets and other subsidiary site searches also use META tags. And Inktomi itself is still a force to be reckoned with. So the decision is yours.

Is it worth the time and effort to create META KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION tags? The answer depends on the audience for your site and what search engines and strategies will be used to access the page. One thing's for certain, it doesn't hurt to include them. If you want to cover all your bases, go ahead and add them. Just be aware that they may not be worth the time and effort you spend crafting them.




[Moderator Note: Moved from Yahoo category to meta tags. - Jill]

[Advisor]

Teoma also uses the Meta keyword tag.

I wouldn't lump the Meta Keyword tag in with the Meta Description tag.

The Meta description tag is still very useful, and in fact, even Google displays it at times. It's very different than the Meta keyword tag, which is not read by Google at all.

Currently, I suggest only using the Meta keyword tag if you have misspellings or synonyms you would like to get in which are not within the actual copy of your page.

I suggest always using the Meta description tag, however. It's definitely important.

Jill

[Aussies-Online]

My recent observation of Google

The title of your page is extremely important. You should make your title as long as possible with your keywords in it.

Then Google lok for a short phrase on your page matching the keywords in your title. That phrase is use for Google description of your site. If it don't find it, it goes for an address or a date on your page.

Many businesses make the mistake of starting their homepage with the address of their premises. Most of the time Google will pick it up to use as a description.

http://www.aussies-online.com

[Advisor]

Aussies...Google looks for phrases on your site that match the search query, not necessarily the Title.

Jill

[Aussies-Online]

My previous post was about how Google is listing your page in its index.
Not about how it is looking for your page during a search.

This information is from experience as it is how it has listed some of my pages 2 months ago.

[Advisor]

Originally posted by Aussies-Online
My previous post was about how Google is listing your page in its index.
Not about how it is looking for your page during a search.

This information is from experience as it is how it has listed some of my pages 2 months ago. Aussies, Google lists your page in it's index differently, depending on the words used to search for it. The description will be one way if you search for the site by URL (which nobody hardly does except the site owner), than when you search using a keyword phrase.

There's no such thing as "how Google is listing your page in its index" because it's not a directory, and it doesn't simply display a Title and Meta description.

Jill

[Aussies-Online]

I might be an amateur, but I do not type my url in google to find my web site. What would be the point of that?

If you are using the Google toolbar
type " forbes nsw "
I will come up on the first page
Forbes / NSW
... DELL, BUNDABURRAH, CALARIE, CARAWANDOOL, CARRAWABBITY, COOKAMIDGERA, CORINELLA,
CORRIDGERY, CUMBIJOWA, DAROOBALGIE, DERRIWONG, EUGOWRA, FORBES, FORBES NORTH ...
new-south-wales.aussies-online.com/forbes.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Now type "ballina nsw"
I'll come up on the second page
Ballina / NSW
... ALSTONVALE, ALSTONVILLE, BAGOTVILLE, BALLINA, BOULDER BEACH, BROOKLET, CABBAGE,
TREE ISLAND ... Copyright © 2000/2002 Aussies-Online.com, NSW, Last Updated: Tuesday ...
new-south-wales.aussies-online.com/ballina.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

Now go to my pages and compare what is on my page with the description.

If you are trying to tell me that the description of my page is going to change depending on what I type in the search... I wish!
I did not say it was using a meta description. I does not use meta tags.

[Advisor]

You just illustrated exactly what I meant!

Your description in the Google results changes depending on what words you typed into the engines.

We agree!

Jill

[Serious]

"Currently, I suggest only using the Meta keyword tag if you have misspellings or synonyms you would like to get in which are not within the actual copy of your page."

I was taught that you you shouldn't use meta keywords that DONT appear in the body text - what's the current feeling on this?

BTW Merry Christmas to you all from the new boy :cheers:

[Advisor]

I was taught that you you shouldn't use meta keywords that DONT appear in the body text - what's the current feeling on this? I used to be the one saying that! But I don't agree any more. I don't think you get any benefit from using it that way and might as well not use it at all unless you have synonyms or misspellings or some real techie terms that aren't used elsewhere.

I gotta say, I'm having a heck of a time writing them these days because of my new thinking. So I'm mostly just leaving them off.

But not the Meta Description, always use that one!

Jill

[Serious]

Thanks for that Jill - just when you think you've got the hang of this game... ;)

[cohwill]

I still use all the tags including the keywords tag because the smaller search engines still use them.

Yes, I've heard all the talk about only submitting to the top search engines, etc., but I tend to disagree with that philopsophy. Many of my clients are getting very good results from being listed on the smaller search engines.

[Aussies-Online]

No Jill, we don't agree!

You are looking at 2 different listings because they represent 2 different pages.

Google is a directory like any other.
It does list you and keep a record of it in its data base.

It does not come directly to your web site when someone perform a search. If it had to do that, you would be waiting a few minutes for the results.

They are 2 good things about Google.
Its search is one of the fastest on the Net, if not the fastest.
Its robot seem to come around once a month like they advertise it would.

[Advisor]

Google is a directory like any other. Sorry, Google is not a directory. It is a search engine. Yes, it has a database of sites and it doesn't come to your site every time someone makes a search.

But it is a search engine not a directory. And your result will show up differently depending upon which keyword phrase is used to search.

Check out these searches:

Search for search engine marketing (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=search+engine+marketing)

Here's the listing for my RankWrite site:

SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION copywriting search engine marketing - ...
... Successful Copywriting & Search Engine Marketing. ... The latest search engine optimization
and copywriting tips, trends and search engine marketing news. And more! ...
Description: Search engine optimization, and online copywriting email list.
Category: Computers > Internet > Searching > Chats and Forums
www.rankwrite.com/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Now look at the search for search engine optimization (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=search+engine+optimization&btnG=Google+Search)

SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMIZATION copywriting search engine marketing - ...
The Rank Write Roundtable answers your questions about search engine optimization
marketing, SEO and copywriting for the search engines. ...
Description: Search engine optimization, and online copywriting email list.
Category: Computers > Internet > Searching > Chats and Forums
www.rankwrite.com/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Same site, same page, different description depending on the search query.

Jill

[woodgifts]

.... might as well not use it at all unless you have synonyms or misspellings or some real techie terms that aren't used elsewhere.
Jill [/B]

Are you saying that using Meta Keywords which do not appear in the body of the page will not be considered spam? I was always under the impression that was a big No-No.

[Matt B]

Originally posted by woodgifts
Are you saying that using Meta Keywords which do not appear in the body of the page will not be considered spam? I was always under the impression that was a big No-No.

No, that is not spam. You are fine using mispellings, variations and terms that are not on the page. What that implies is that the terms you use are related to the content of the page or the site, but not necesarily used on the page.

An example would be a common misspelling of a company name. You obviously do not want to use the various misspellings on the page or in the title. The Keyword tag can be used for these types of issues.

[Advisor]

Originally posted by woodgifts
Are you saying that using Meta Keywords which do not appear in the body of the page will not be considered spam? I was always under the impression that was a big No-No. Spamming a Meta keyword tag would be stuffing the same keyword over and over and over again, and/or using keywords that don't relate to your site. Other than that, you can definitely put words in the tag that are not on the particular page, if they are relevant to the overall page/site.

Doesn't really matter anyway, because the engines will for the most part ignore them, even if you spam 'em up.

I would bet that a page has never been banned due to a spammy Meta tag.

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by Advisor
I would bet that a page has never been banned due to a spammy Meta tag. Where the meta keywords tag is 99KB and the body content is less than 1KB, I think you might find the page is banned. :)

[Aussies-Online]

I thought the rule was not to use the same word more than 7 times before running the risk of being banned.

I did notice many sites repeating the same word as many as 7 times in their title. And it seem to get them a top listing.

Is that the way to go?

[Advisor]

In the Title tag, I wouldn't use any one-word more than 2 times.

Sure, you may see them used more, and you may see them ranked high at times, however, it's not a long-term strategy, as it could red-flag your site for further scrutiny by the engines.

Jill

[cohwill]

IMHO, in all the tags, it is best not to repeat a word more than 3 times. :D

[Matt B]

I don't believe there are any "rules," just common sense intuition. Regardless of how many times you use a keyword in the title tag, users are wise to what is useful and what is overdone. IMO, an overly repeated keyword in the title makes a site look unprofessional, relying on amaturish tactics.

A title tag should be considered part of your marketing copy, not a recitation of your keywords.
Do what is right and descriptive for your user, not the SE.