seo working with dynamic pages?

[Adriana]

I spoke to MMlive, a company that builds some pretty neat dynamic Web sites. I have repeatedly asked how they are able to get the dynamic pages indexed - and they use a product called SearchDex.

I am aware that there are some legitimate technologies out there that will "convert" dynamic pages into static ones for SEO purposes. I am also aware that there are other companies that use the redirect they mention below to serve a different page to just the search engines, which is basically cloaking or spam -- and which can lead to a site getting banned from an engine.

Can someone fill me in on the dos and donts, and the different ways to "convert" when working with the dynamic pages? I don't know enough to know if this is a legit method or not. It sounds fishy to me. Thier description is below.

Thanks!!!

Adriana


"SearchDex is not cloaking. SearchDex is an exact replication, a mirror image, of the content or product page that the client would like the search engine to see for indexing and presentation to the consumer. SearchDex will only provide content that is on the site already on the page related to a specific topic or product.

"Cloaking" is a term that is used to describe a deceptive technique of padding/adding a significant amount of additional search terms or content that does not exist on the intended delivery page to the consumer. Cloaking is a deceptive SEO tactic that provides high relevancy rankings in the search engine results for the purpose of driving traffic to specific websites or product pages. These types of practices are easily located and dealt with severely by the popular search engines. SearchDex pages have been utilized for over 20 months by many clients without one instance of question.

SearchDex only allows the client to leverage the content rich marketing copy that is already on the website that is hidden from the access of a search engine due to the design features of a particular website.

At anytime a SearchDex page will pass a human audit and analysis of presenting the visual elements, look and feel, as well as the same content that the user will see contained on the intended page within the client dynamic site.

Here is an example of a indexed page from an MML client that I have approval to use their reference of the service.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=briefcase+organizer

The above result was #1 out of 52,100 results provided.

Once you have gone to the results in Google you will need to click on the link that says "cached" - that link will show you the product SearchDex page that was indexed by Google. Once on that page you can click the image and be taken right to the product page in the site. Those pages are 98% the exact same page. We do not include price or inventory for most clients in the SearchDex pages - there is the 2% difference. We leave it up to the live site to provide the most current information on stock and price.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=teva+water+shoe

Here is another link for Magellans. This one was #1 out of 15,500 results provided.

These are common examples of how well the SearchDex pages rank. Both of the above pages were # 1 for the search terms used.

The point to stress is that there are several implementations of the SearchDex pages. If the client does not want the consumer to have a "one-click" link to dynamic site product page the pages - with no change what-so-ever can be landing pages - where the consumer sees the page indexed and cached by the robot prior to clicking through to the dynamic site product page. We have clients that utilize this method of implementation for various reasons and it is perfectly acceptable and is completely up to the client to make that decision - does not matter to us.

[french dread]

These are common examples of how well the SearchDex pages rank

mmmh not that impressing. it all depends of the text already in the original pages.

I had to work on a dynamic un-crawlable directory. What I have done is to copy the text content in a strict html page, optimizing title and description. There is a redirection to the welcome page as its difficult to redirect to the correct page with this website.
It work very very well and bring tons of trafic.
redirect is not spamming, it depends if the visitor and/or SE is fooled or not

[highman]

It is not that hard to convert a dynamic site into static 'looking' URL's, converting the 'actual' site is far better than creating additional pages from the dynamic content.

If you convert the site to using static 'looking' URLs then there is no need to update additional pages or worry about people landing on a page that will not handle the direct sell of the product.

There are several solutions available depending on the programming language of your site, you will need someone who is comfortable with that language to make the conversion

[Matt B]

As highman stated, you don't need to pay a company (probably a lot of money) for something that could very simply be done yourself. By doing it yourself, you can be assured that you are aware of everything that is happening and you are in control of how it takes place.
It is always better to have the pages rank according to their own merits, than creating an alternate page designed to "optimize." It is cloaking, despite the definition.

It takes some investigation and work, but you can make a dynamic site optimized and spiderable, and it ultimately makes the your visitor's experience better as a result.

[Adriana]

Thanks for the input.

Which solutions would be considered cloaking/spamming by the search engines? the redirects, the url changing, etc.? Which are not?

It sounds like there is some gray area -- I'd like to be confident that I'm not going to get banned.

Any suggestions on where to research the options a little more?

[Matt B]

Adrianna,

Be wary of "canned" dynamic web applications and software. Sometimes a custom programmed dynamic application will be more expensive, but built to your needs without all of the "crap" that is in a pre-packaged app.

Pre-packaged apps have a reputation for not being search engine friendly. A well-programmed dynamic website will be open to indexing by the search engines without much assistance, if any at all.

Research mod-rewite for your site structure just in case you need it, but it is recommended for user-side accessibility and linking.

Any pages created specifically for search engine ranking purposes may potentially get you into trouble. Not to mention the trouble of maintaining multiple versions of web copy. If your web structure is open, then you only have to maintain the current version.

Creating another version, IMO, is not only debatable "ethically," but financially unsound. You have to double your maintenance time, changes, and web efforts, meaning a waste of time, money and resources.

[Adriana]

Matt,

do you know where I can find some more info about optimizing dynamic pages -- the *right* way?

Thanks,

A

[Matt B]

Here in this forum is a great place to start. There is a section for dynamic issues under web programming and development. You may have go back a-ways if you want to read old threads, otherwise, just ask away. There are many others here that can help you.

[Alan Perkins]

Hi Adriana

It looks like SearchDex would be OK as long as the content seen by the spider was identical to the content seen by searchers, and especially if you took active measures to ensure that a given piece of content was indexed once only.

Whether SearchDex is the best solution for you is another matter and one I wouldn't comment on without doing a lot more research.

I would certainly ask the SearchDex people why they feel a redirect is in order, i.e. why not just let searchers stay on the page they land on? It should be identical to the page they are redirected to...

You might find the article I wrote for Jill Whalen on Optimizing Dynamic Content (http://www.highrankings.com/issue022.htm#guest) of use.

[Adriana]

Hi Alan --

I don't think that the SearchDex option is a good one for us, either. I wanted to understand what it does, and if it was a good, ethical seo method. From the little information that they would give me, it didn't appear to be -- and all the replies have confirmed that.

One thing you might be interested in: from my understanding, they are only using a redirect for the se spiders. Anyone else would be sent to the dynamic pages. I wasn't sure if I explained it clearly enough.

I'll check out your article, thanks!

[ihelpyou]

If that is what they are doing, then that is clearly spam.

[Webmaster T]

Originally posted by Adriana


SearchDex only allows the client to leverage the content rich marketing copy that is already on the website that is hidden from the access of a search engine due to the design features of a particular website.



Hmmmm, awful close to what was once described to me as the Inktomi XML feed and cloaking guidelines by someone who should have been in the know. I might add it wasn't an exact match just had to be relavant to the real content. I believe you also had to have cloaked pages = to real. In other words you can't have 10 cloaked for 1 real.

Dynamic sites for the most part are only a problem for AV and possibly Inktomi. All SE since Google do handle qstrings. Inktomi use the feed or inclusion. AV does it really matter;)

The rest it is more of a usability issue then an SEO problem. That is to say somesite.com/products/camera.htm is easier to remember then somesite.com/products/camera.asp?ID=somenonsense&product=camera.

Three workarounds, two unix one NT. Unix use SSI and .shtml embedding the query in the program or use the much more elegant pathinfo technique. .asp even simpler embed the query in the page. I've used a perl program I wrote that writes these pages out based on what's in the DB. Some might say that is machine generated code I'd beg to differ on that one. I could have done it by hand but the result would be no different, the program is just an ecomomical means to the same end. Only diference 100 billable hrs. became three hrs. it took to write the perl script.

Not too smart on my behalf but the client sure appreciated it!

I also use a technique on dynamic commerce sites that doesn't turn the qstring on until a purchase is initiated. SE and user friendly and no cookies required to maintain state.

I've built nothing but dynamic sites for the last 3 years and never seen anything that required cloaking or special software. Careful planning of the development with these issues in mind is all that was ever required.

[Adriana]

I just had to update this thread with an email that I received from MMLIVE this morning. IMHO, it is exactly what NOT to look for in a SEO or Web design partner.

MMLIVE builds some pretty good ecommerce sites, all dynamic.

From what I understand, there are a few ways to optimize the dynamic pages for SE. I have a solid background in SEO/Internet Marketing, and explaining the process THAT THEY USE to me should be easy. Sending me some examples would be even easier.

I've asked for this explanation, as well as a list of clients and the keywords they are ranked "high" under and in what SE, several times over the last few months. All I received was a brief explanation (they serve a static page to the SE only with a redirect) and an few brief examples.

Based on the very little information I received and MMLIVE's unwillingness to provide more details, I can only assume that this company is using some unethical techniques.

Perhaps not, but the failure to properly address my concerns leads me believe so.

The email that I received this morning sealed the deal for me -- it is unbelieveable that a company actually thinks it can achieve sales by threatening potential clients.

This note speaks volumes about the company culture, its professionalism, integrity and values. IMHO, it is a perfect example of what you DON"T want in a SEO/Web design partner...

See below:

Thanks for going through the steps of gathering info on MML....I do want to say that if you never had any thought of moving your site off HTML, why didn't you just say so and stop wasting both our time. I'm sorry that I can't make you see the right direction to go, but I know the type. You'd rather keep your head in the sand and protect your job short-term, rather then do the research and make calculated steps toward change, upgrades and progress....there's little risk in doing nothing but you can only hide behind that for so long.....Good luck in the future. I will stay in touch with *, since I'm sure a new person will be in your position soon.

Regards, Brad

Brad Curtis | Director of Business Development
multimedialive
www.mmlive.com

[Matt B]

Wow! What an ass!

on the other hand - i think I found my new sales strategy. :rolleyes:

I think he definitely took the "sales by intimidation" course.

[ihelpyou]

sheesh, I just viewed the site. They think all of that movement and flash and little to zero words/content is a good thing? LOL I hated their web site and could not click out of it fast enough.

[Adriana]

They seem to think it will get you top rankings in the SE, that is for sure.

Personally, the sales by intimidation strategy doesn't turn me on, and if that is part of thier corporate culture, they may kiss thier jobs goodbye long before I do. hehe

:kisses:

[polarmate]

What is incredible is that he chose to put these words in writing. Maybe he just got fired or knows he's next in the line to get laid off and wants to do as much damage to his employer before he leaves. I can't imagine why someone would put that down in writing. This is a Business Development strategy?!! Wow!!