Article on Clickz About Yahoo Algo

[ihelpyou]

Here it is:
http://www.clickz.com/search/opt/article.php/899301

I cannot believe they are saying that this requires SEO skills to achieve. NONE is required except the ability to SPAM Yahoo as always. Create a SPAMMY business name that is NOT real, and create a SPAMMY url only for Yahoo. That is ALL that is required now. Period.

[MsSearch]

Well, I definitely agree that Yahoo is SPAMMY.

However, the average business man who spent thousands of dollars on web design for his company website does not have much knowledge on SEO. Therefore when getting listed in YAhoo s/he will not get a keyword-filled title, description, etc...and their listing will just sit in their directory unfound. That's when company's turn to SEO companies for better positioning... so, many companies do need SEO companies to optimize/position their website for them...(just my belief)

...but from an SEO point of view, it is too easy to spam Yahoo.

In relation to that article I do not agree with many of the points mentioned, especially needing MORE expertise to optimize for Yahoo...

However, the article did state something along the lines of outsourcing SEO services....BRING 'EM ON....More work for us and more $$$....:D

[ihelpyou]

Therefore when getting listed in YAhoo s/he will not get a keyword-filled title, description, etc...
That keyword-filled title is suppose to be the REAL business name of the site. That is the BIGGEST reason Yahoo is SPAM ridden. In my case, as an example, I had NO choice but to use my business name as the title. NO SEO knowledge is needed for that. If a true business name is required in Yahoo, then no need for SEO. Also, the description is changed by Yahoo as well. NO need for SEO.

All anyone has to do is "make-up" any name to get a good title. No seo is needed. That is Spammy.

[MsSearch]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
In my case, as an example, I had NO choice but to use my business name as the title. NO SEO knowledge is needed for that.
Yes, the title is the business name, but then these companies who submit on their own, do not get found because they did not make up a spammy site with a keyword-oriented title, URL, etc...so they turn to an SEO who will most likely do that just to get their client listed and found.

Originally posted by ihelpyou If a true business name is required in Yahoo, then no need for SEO. Also, the description is changed by Yahoo as well. NO need for SEO.
It is because they place such an emphasis on the title, descr, etc that THEY assign to the websites..that makes people need to spam the directory to get traffic and a $299 worth out of their listing.

I agree with you on Yahoo. I just think that SEO is needed by the companies who have no knowledge of the search engines and directories. From an SEO point of a view, it is a brainless task to get a site listed/found (spammed) in Yahoo but companies still turn to SEO companies to get the job done.

[ihelpyou]

Not from this guy. I refuse to submit a client to the Yahoo directory. I refuse to Spam. This is why. I tell my client to submit their own site to Yahoo if they wish. I do not believe in that directory whatsoever. Until they completely change how they rank their listings, I will not be a part of their Spam ways. Further, I will NOt tell a client how to Spam yahoo. I would never buy a separate domain name or "think up" a separate business name simply for yahoo. That is Bull.

Looksmart? Heck yes. I Will submit to them.

[MsSearch]

Some clients will go to great lengths to get into Yahoo and each SEO/SEP specialist will do things differently. I am not a spammer but I will bend a bit for Yahoo (play by their rules) to make/keep my clients happy if they so choose to go the Yahoo route.

As for Looksmart...well comparing Looksmart to Yahoo is like comparing apples to oranges...

[ihelpyou]

All I tell a client is to use the exact same description I get them from Looksmart and use a similar category. I tell them their business name is their title in Yahoo. That is what I communicate to them. I will not help anyone with spamming. Yahoo is not that important anymore especially when you figure that only half of sites in their get any kind of traffic.

With Looksmart, you know that your Url is also in MSN, AltaVista and many isp's, etc. Good link pop potential. With Yahoo, nothing of the sort except a link in Yahoo.

[JuniorHarris]

Very good points on both sides!~ :up:

If one must submit to Yahoo (or any directory), it is very important to do homework regarding that directory (and your target category). Frugal review of existing listings can provide great insight on what additional entries require to be competitive. Spammy title and all!~;)

[Farhan]

The article says that the Alphabetical game like in the Yellow pages (like adding AAA or 111 etc) no longer exists, where as it is there in the categories. Yahoo still lists the site in categories alphabateically. However due to the new layout, the category clicks must have reduced a lot!

[MsSearch]

The alphabetical listings still appear in the directory categories but the category paths are not as noticeable/prominent as they once were. However, a website still needs a spammy (Keyword-rich) title to better their ranking.

I wonder how long their new 'algo' will last. I do not see this as being a long-term way of life for Yahoo as companies cannot build brand awareness with spammy titles. I also wonder what will happen to these 'spammy' keyword rich titled sites once they change their algo again...

[Great-1]

If the alphabetical game no longer exists, I'll eat my hat :)

My company name begins with a letter towards the end of the alphabet, and a major competitor of mine have just registered a domain SPECIFICALLY for Yahoo!, www.1aaa****.co.uk

They already have many domains like this, as their company name begins lower down the alphabet aswell.

[ihelpyou]

I would truly love to have a Yahoo editor tell us WHY it is soooo easy to SPAM Yahoo? Why is it that one only needs a spammy title to get a good rank? Why is it that one does NOT have to use their business name in the title if they clearly have one? As is noted above?

Yahoo needs to explain all of this. I am disgusted.

[MsSearch]

Has anyone had any success at emailing Yahoo about many www.111AAA*****.com-like domains that are ALL owned by the same company and are all listed in the Yahoo directory? Has anyone had any luck at getting listings multiple removed?

Just curious....otherwise Yahoo will become Spamhoo...:)

[ihelpyou]

Anytime I have emailed Yahoo about anything I never received a reply. Even when I requested a description change along time ago, they simply changed it with no response. Good for that but other emails in the past were ignored.

Others may have different experiences.

[ihelpyou]

Before the Yahoo change I use to get a boatload of hits from Yahoo/Google on a daily basis. This algo and layout change has forced searchers to wade thru all the Yahoo directory sites first before getting to the Google results.

Before, one could click into a category and find a few links in the directory, then immediately go to the Google results. That is not happening anymore and it has made the Google listings almost useless in there. On very unpopular terms, the Google engine comes up quickly but if you are searching on terms even fairly popular, forget about getting hits from the Google "web Pages".

Disgusting.

[The Ney]

Well, Google results were there in the first place, only in case you dont find what you need in Yahoo directories. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who doesnt find what he's looking for in Yahoo, should turn to Google by himself.
What they did with new algo is, that they have changed their results form being directory-oriented, to regular-search-engine-oriented. The new algo is good for some, and bad for the others. I dont see why putting keywords in URL is concerned spamming? That is just another parameter that you can try to optimize. I prefer that to the Looksmart-MSN algo that makes you change your furniture order every time you optimize (who knows, maybe that can change something too, since no one knows EXACTLY how to optimize for MSN).

Anyways, these are only SEO ppl inputs about the new Yahoo algo... what about the thing that they have in mind when they change it ? The average searcher, for example ? Do they get more relevant results with the new algo ? It would be great if we could get some input about that.

[ihelpyou]

Well, at least MSN has a real algo. I do not call having keywords in the Url or in your title an algo at all. What is so hard to figure out with that?

What about all the sites that bought a domain awhile ago? They have NO chance of ranks in Yahoo. Should they simply buy a spammy domain for Yahoo?

This is what I mean. What Yahoo does is NOT an algo of any kind. MSN goes off of content and quality of a site as well. That is an algo. They do not put importance on simply the title and Url.

Why should an algo be known to anyone? With Yahoo, everyone knows how to spam cause everyone knows the algo.

Do you see what I mean?

You mentioned the relevance. I find zero relevance and worse than it was before.

[Farhan]

Well i have a question ?
If its so clear and easy to understand the algo of yahoo would any one please answer this question

a site sells roasted peanuts. To spam yahoo, they take a title of "roasted peanuts" and also try to use the word in their description and also have a 'spammy domain' like
roasted-peanuts.com

one of their competitors, bring in a site with a title of
'Roasted peanuts N Roasted peanuts" with almost same description and a domain like
roasted-peanuts-roasted-peanuts.com

a second competitor comes in with a site named
Roasted Peanuts and Roasted Almonds"
with same description and a domain like
roasted-peanuts-roasted-almonds.com


Now if a search of " roasted peanuts" is done, which of the sites wil appear on the top (ignoring the click through ratios for a moment)


and what if a search is performed on the keyowrd of "Roasted"

[ihelpyou]

It would simply be a toss-up as to which would come up higher. There is talk that Yahoo tracks clicks,etc... but no one really knows. I just do not feel that the Yahoo algo is worth all that much. If they would take the emphasis off the Url and title, things would be better and the spam would not exist.

[The Ney]

MSN ? Content, relevance ? Didn't you say something about the "search engine optimization" query on MSN ?
First "real" SEO company is on the second page, #17. All of the preceding sites are mass-submission sites (the closest thing to the complete opposite of SEO).


MSN stinks. their "traffic" comes largely from spelling mistakes in browser URL field which are automaticaly translated into queries on (where else?) search.msn. There is also a huge number of people who see the "search" button on the IE browser, hit it and use it without actually considering what kind of service are they getting.


Anyways, i agree with you that the new Yahoo algo is not a big relevance fan, but i dont think that they rank only according to the title and URL. I have checekd it and there are lots of sites that have better keyword counts in URL and the Title, but are still ranking lower than the #1 site.


There is a real question over here : how can you rank relevance ? By a machine that will check... what ? Links ? keyword relevance on the homepage ? None of these are 100% spam-proof. Human editors ? Unless we are talking about voluntier-based directories (DMOZ), that option is too expensive for anyone, even for MSN. And even if you do employ a vast number of editors that will check thousands of sites submitted, how can they rank relevance ? They can say if something is relevant or not. They cannot GRADE relevance.
furthermore, there are issues that their relevance cannot be graded. Legal sites for example. all of them are relevant in the same way. So SEO is the only way.

These are my thoughts.

[ihelpyou]

hey the ney, we can disagree. :)

I simply do not think that Yahoo has ever been relevant and is only popular because of their branding and big pockets for advertising and the fact they were one of the first directories/engines on the net.

I'll take MSN or Looksmart or Google anytime. :)

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

Not from this guy. I refuse to submit a client to the Yahoo directory. I refuse to Spam. This is why. I tell my client to submit their own site to Yahoo if they wish. I do not believe in that directory whatsoever. Until they completely change how they rank their listings, I will not be a part of their Spam ways. Further, I will NOt tell a client how to Spam yahoo. I would never buy a separate domain name or "think up" a separate business name simply for yahoo. That is Bull.

Doug, while we completely understand where you are coming from, the Newbies and the Prospective Clients will not understand your concepts and comments concerning the Yahoo Directory a.k.a. Web Site Matches (sites in Yahoo! Directory that match your search) ... as opposed to the Web Pages by Google a.k.a. Web Page Matches (pages on the Web that match your search) that you spoke of when you said ...

Before the Yahoo change I use to get a boatload of hits from Yahoo/Google on a daily basis. This algo and layout change has forced searchers to wade thru all the Yahoo directory sites first before getting to the Google results.

Before, one could click into a category and find a few links in the directory, then immediately go to the Google results. That is not happening anymore and it has made the Google listings almost useless in there. On very unpopular terms, the Google engine comes up quickly but if you are searching on terms even fairly popular, forget about getting hits from the Google "web Pages".

Disgusting.

Therefore, we'd like to give everyone a view from the "other" side of the new Yahoo ranking system so that they can have a balanced approach in making their decision as to whether including a Yahoo listing is in their best interest or not.

We have a client who is now getting almost three times as many orders per day as she was before the new Yahoo ranking system. So is she happy about her new rankings in the Yahoo Directory? Well, obviously!

For the last 2 1/2 years our client has had "mediocre" rankings within the Yahoo Directory? and "excellent" rankings in the Web Pages by Google a.k.a. Yahoogle, BUT having excellent rankings in Yahoogle does her no good if her competition is easily being found in the Yahoo Directory, which means that the Yahoogle results will not be shown without actually FIRST clicking on them.

Now the tables have turned, and she ranks well above most of her competition that she wasn't anywhere near with the old ranking system.

You may being asking, so what did we do, get a description change or add another listing that "favors" the new ranking system?

Nope, NOT at all. She still has the same wonderful keyword rich description, company name, domain name and category name that we "optimized" for her some 2 1/2 years ago. BTW, Yahoo posted the description just as we had submitted it and no editing was done by them.

In our humble opinion, Yahoo, finally caught up to a "fair" way of ranking pages in a human edited directory with very little text from which to do it.

We are going to be submitting a description change soon, as she has now gone from 800 products to over 4000, so obviously a description to reflect her growth will more than likely be accepted to Yahoo over one that is just looking to increase their rankings as they explain in the following paragraph.

Yahoo! must have a compelling reason to make changes to your listing. We will not change information that is already accurate.

Common misperceptions about this form and Yahoo!:

Yahoo! is not a search engine, it is a directory of sites carefully categorized by human web-surfers. We do not look at keywords or meta tags. We do not crawl, re-scan or re-spider sites.

This form cannot be used as a means of improving your search ranking. If your intent in using this change form is to improve your search ranking or "searchability" please do not use this form. Please see our document for help with search.

How Exactly Do I Search Yahoo!?

Simple answer: Type a word (or several words) into the query box on any Yahoo! page, and then hit the "Search" button (or the "Enter" key on your keyboard). Yahoo! Search will then look for any matches with your query in the Yahoo! directory.

Slightly more complicated answer: Yahoo! is a subject-based directory that happens to be searchable, so if you're not looking for a specific web site, choose search terms based on the general subject you're interested in.

For example, if you want a recipe for blueberry pancakes, type the word "recipes." (This is more general, and you're bound to find a category with a number of sites, many of which probably contain a recipe for blueberry pancakes. More choices.) Or, if you're interested in the lyrics to your favorite song, start by typing "lyrics" as a general subject or the name of the musician who sings your song.

The point: Use Yahoo Search to find web sites organized by subject. Do this by searching for Yahoo! categories and not individual web sites. You'll tend to get more results in categories.

However, if you know the site you're looking for, type in the exact name of the site and hit "Search."

To learn how to better tailor search results without having to visit the Search Options page, please visit Advanced Search Syntax.

With a description change that will more accurately reflect her "current" business situation (as opposed to 2 1/2 years ago) we are certain that her daily orders will yet increase even further.

So does that make her happy with the new Yahoo ranking system? Does it make us happy?

Sure it does, as it now works in our/her favor, but from Doug's point of view/situation it doesn't work in his favor.

We are certain that many, many others feel that this new ranking system is "disgusting" (as Doug puts it) and we are equally certain that many, many others feel that this new ranking system is now "fair" (as we put it).

So in conclusion, no matter what side of this issue you are on, there is no denying that EVERYBODY now has a "fair" chance of ranking high for the Yahoo Directory, because the ranking criteria has been clearly made public and with a little research can boost your business to the top in a matter of a few days and the return on your investment can easily become the BEST/HIGHEST of any other method available currently available on the Net.

That has to be a PLUS in anyone's thinking AND will now also GREATLY JUSTIFY the expense for a business/commercial listing. The old ranking system did not justify the expense for us if a business could not achieve a decent ranking unless it started with an "A" ... The alphabetical ranking order and the "wading" past the lonnng list of category results was not and will never be a fair way to rank pages.

This change was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for Yahoo.

( Note to Doug: Stop reading here, close eyes and drop down a few lines before continuing <WINK>)

Search Engine Optimization for Yahoo has just become EASIER than ever before. This will certainly open the doors for more search engine and directory marketing specialists and professionals to acquire many more clients AND many more satisfied clients at that.

Achieving a #1 ranking (or top 10 or top 20 ranking) on Yahoo has never been EASIER.

The Yahoo! **** Rush has begun (all over again).

[ihelpyou]

That is fine. I will completely disagree with you totally and completely..... did I say completely? Yep.

You CANNOT optimize for Yahoo. Period. You can have a keyword rich url and business name...... that is ALL you need. Do I call that optimizing? No. Do I call that an algo? No. Do I call that SPAMMY? Yes.

Comparing:

Looksmart. They look at your CONTENT and keyword categories and quality of a site. Do I call that optimizing? Yes. Do I call that an algo? Yes. Do I call that Spammy? No.

You do Not need a spammy url and a spammy business name to get good ranks in Looksmart or MSN. Do you need me to submit to Yahoo? No. Do you need me to submit to Looksmart? Yes.

This is the difference. This is what I am trying to say. I am NOT saying to not get into Yahoo, .... simply saying no one can say what is required for Yahoo is called optimization. Also not saying that a site could not have success in Yahoo. If they get a good desc, have a spammy url, and have a spammy (fake) business name, that is all you need. Actually, this thing with Yahoo has not changed at all as this is the way they have always been.

[ihelpyou]

One final note and I am done with this:

Looksmart:

Does Google spider LS listings when you are listed? Yes.
Is the AltaVista directory simply the Looksmart directory? Yes.
How about the Excite directory now? Yes.
Does MSN use LS listings when bringing up first results? Yes.
Does all of this affect your Google ranks in a good way? Yes.

Yahoo:
What other search engines use the Yahoo directory? None.
Does Google spider your Yahoo listing? Not right away.

Which directory helps your site more with link popularity points and PageRank? Looksmart does.

All of this, is, of course IMO.

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

That is fine. I will completely disagree with you totally and completely..... did I say completely? Yep.

You CANNOT optimize for Yahoo. Period. You can have a keyword rich url and business name...... that is ALL you need. Do I call that optimizing? No. Do I call that an algo? No. Do I call that SPAMMY? Yes.

Doug, we're a little confused on what you completely disagree with?

Is it that YOU personally cannot optimize for Yahoo?

Is it that NOBODY can optimize for Yahoo?

If it is the latter, then we simply have a case of semantics here, because according to the definition of "optimize" by the Merriam Webster Dictionary, it is possible to optimize for Yahoo.

op*ti*mize (verb transitive) -mized; -miz*ing

First appeared 1857

: to make as perfect, effective, or functional as possible

: op*ti*miz*er (noun)

Doug, you know that we are not "arguing" with you or with your "point" or even your "definition" but we are merely wanting to understand what EXACTLY you disagree with that we said.


You CANNOT optimize for Yahoo. Period. You can have a keyword rich url and business name...... that is ALL you need.

What about your "optimized" description?

Do I call that optimizing? No.

That's what we mean by semantics, your definition and the one giving by the Merriam Webster Dictionary are obviously not one in the same.

So, that we can better understand what you mean Doug, what is your definition of optimize?

Do I call that an algo? No.

Here again, semantics, and here's the Merriam Webster Dictionary's definition ...

al*go*rithm (noun)

First appeared circa 1894

: a procedure for solving a mathematical problem (as of finding the greatest common divisor) in a finite number of steps that frequently involves repetition of an operation; broadly : a step-by-step procedure for solving a problem or accomplishing some end esp. by a computer


Do I call that SPAMMY? Yes.

In the thread when you asked ... "Spamming Search Engines - What is it?" (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/t824/s.html) ... we gave you our definition for spamming the search engines as such ...

---------------------<><><><><>-------------------

Any technique used to optimize a Web page that is in direct violation of the rules and/or guidelines set forth by each specific search engine is SPAM.

---------------------<><><><><>-------------------

Whether any SEO Practitioner disagrees with what the search engines deem SPAM is NOT the issue. SPAM is and always will be what the search engines say it is.

Since you did not publicly disagree with that definition for the search engines at that time, would you say that when it comes to the directories that the following (interchangeable) definitions would then not be accurate?

SPAM is and always will be what the directories say it is.

SPAM is and always will be what Yahoo says it is.

SPAM is and always will be what LookSmart says it is.

SPAM is and always will be what ODP says it is.

(Doug, you know that we are only asking you these questions so that the Newbies, Guests and Prospects won't be confused, because you know how easily that can happen.)

[ihelpyou]

There is no confusion here. All newbies have to know is to buy a domain for Yahoo that has keywords in it and make up a business name with keywords in it. That's all.

[Advisor]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
There is no confusion here. All newbies have to know is to buy a domain for Yahoo that has keywords in it and make up a business name with keywords in it. That's all. Yep, and that is how you optimize for Yahoo. Like you said, it's nothing new, but it is what it is.

Would I personally do it? I certainly wouldn't tell an existing company to start a fake one, etc., etc. However, if I were starting a new company from scratch and really wanted to be sure to get a good listing in Yahoo, I'd sure think about doing it, as that's exactly what it takes at this time to get a good listing. If that's what Yahoo wants (and obviously they do) then that's what they'll get.

Eventually their "algorithm" will change, and perhaps all the sites that are now ranking high will not, but as an SEO specialist, you gotta do what you gotta do, and since Yahoo doesn't deem it as spam, then it's not.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

You are right. The problem is most listings are existing companies that have bought a different domain and have made up a fake business name for Yahoo. Even then, a site has about a 5050 chance of getting good traffic.

[MazY]

Well, what a frightfully energetic thread! :)

Here's my small loose change worth.

Yahoo! - Do I like it - Not one bit. Why? Clunky, bizarre navigation and just downright ugly to use.

Yahoo - Do I optimise for it? Nope. In fact, if I think about it, I can count the amount of times that I have even been to Yahoo in my lifetime in the very lower double figures.

I firmly believe there are some trades that benefit from Yahoo and some that don't. My last client is doing incredibly well from it, the one before that, gets ziltch. I think it's a lot of money to spend on something that can offer little or no return in terms of real searches.

Like Doug, I see real benefit from LookSmart for every trade that I have dealt with. That to me is what my obligation is to my clients - to give them the broadest scope of return for what they currently have. Not to advise them to keep spending on something that they already have - a domain name.

If Yahoo! are now suggesting that I advise every client to go purchase another domain name to get a decent ranking, then Yahoo! can go whistle. They are not that important. If they cannot cater for real domains then that is their weakness, not mine and not my clients.

Through work and friends, I think I know one hell of a lot of web searchers. The only ones I know who use Yahoo are the ones who know no better. Rather like the MSN from using the IE Browser as someone else pointed out earlier.

However, all that said, if the client wants tops in Yahoo! then that is what they must have. I just totally object to the notion that they must shell out for another domain name to get it!

[Farhan]

For the keyword of
"search engine forums"

Jill's Rankwrite appears third, though it neither has the keywords in title nor in the domain. Howcome you said that having a spammy titile will do the whole job ! Doug!

[Advisor]

Cool! I didn't even know I had that ranking! (Shows how much traffic it brings...ZERO!)

Jill (oops, I mean, Nikita)

[ihelpyou]

LOL. There ya go with the great relevance of Yahoo. Though I guess you might call the newsletter a forum of sorts? hmmm

[Farhan]

If someone searching for search engine forums comes to rankwrite, i think it would be a quite relevent and targeted crusade. Anyways! the thing is we were disscussing not the quality of reults but the way of spam of titiles. You said the sites having keywords in Titile are always there, and my point in saying that raknwrite appeared was that it does not have the keyword in title or the domain.

[ihelpyou]

Yep. You are right. There will always be a couple of exceptions. :)

[Advisor]

Originally posted by Farhan
You said the sites having keywords in Titile are always there, and my point in saying that raknwrite appeared was that it does not have the keyword in title or the domain. That's becuase there's no other site that is using that criteria to bump me out. Doug is not saying that you have to have those things to get a high rankings, just that they will ensure that you do (until 20 sites beat you to it!).

Jill

[Sharon & Roy]

Hello Farhan,

Before we begin, it is necessary for us to say that we love Doug, and we have never nor will we ever speak "ill" of him or speak "for" him. He is our fearless leader and we have the utmost respect for him. We are most thankful for his fairness and openness that he allows us all here at his forum, to be able to give our opinions and views on some of the "deeper" issues of SEO and now also "DO" (Directory Optimization) when discussing Yahoo.

Having said that, we'll now say this. From the earlier posts that Doug made and that we made in this thread, it is easy to conclude that Doug is not a "supporter/fan" of Yahoo and their new ranking method. It is also clear to see that we are.

When one discusses "optimizing" for Yahoo it is NOT ... "SEO" ... but ... "DO" ...

Please keep in mind that "Directory Optimization" is VERY, VERY different from "Search Engine Optimization"

From those two view points, we posted specifically to ask Doug for clarification on his views and what he was actually saying and disagreeing with us about, simply to avoid confusion on those who will read this thread, whether they are a Newbie or Experienced.

Hence, your question ...

Originally posted by Farhan

How come you said that having a spammy title will do the whole job ! Doug!

Again, we are not attempting to speak "for" Doug or even put words in his mouth, but we are saying that since Doug is not a "fan/supporter" of the new Yahoo ranking system, he may have confused some of you who read this thread. That is why we asked the questions that we did, so as to not have such confusion.

The confusion lies not so much with what Doug had to say, as much as how he may have said it.

Doug was disgusted, therefore he may not have felt the need to disclose ALL of the factors needed to optimize for Yahoo. (Again, we are not speaking for Doug, but just giving our opinion of the situation)

Also, because of his disgust he may not have seen the implications of possible confusion arising from his post at the time. Meaning that folks who read his posts put MORE credibility on them, since he is the "boss man/leader" here and all.

That is why we asked Doug the questions that we did, so that he could be a bit more "clear" on what he "actually" meant to say about how to "optimize" for Yahoo's new ranking system.

Originally posted by ihelpyou

I would truly love to have a Yahoo editor tell us WHY it is soooo easy to SPAM Yahoo? Why is it that one only needs a spammy title to get a good rank? Why is it that one does NOT have to use their business name in the title if they clearly have one? As is noted above?

Yahoo needs to explain all of this. I am disgusted.

When Doug said this, "Why is it that one only needs a spammy title to get a good rank?", we were concerned that folks might get the wrong idea about the new ranking system and therefore we attempted to clear up what Doug actually meant by saying the following ...

Originally posted by ihelpyou

You CANNOT optimize for Yahoo. Period. You can have a keyword rich url and business name...... that is ALL you need.

Originally posted by Sharon & Roy

What about your "optimized" description?

Doug, simply had not mentioned the fact that the new ranking system also takes the words in the DESCRIPTION into account when calculating the ranking order.

[ihelpyou]

True but the description is third or fourth in line. The title and Url are the main things that Yahoo looks at. Because of this fact, they put themselves up to be Spammed time after time after time.

Again, simply Buy yourself a new domain with keywords and Make up a fake business name for your title, and you have the best chance of success in the Yahoo directory.

No magic or knowledge needed. No confusion.

[Advisor]

No magic or knowledge needed. Oh, but, Doug, that is the very magic and knowledge that is needed!

It is bad for the overall state of the Yahoo directory, but it is what it is at this point in time.

BTW, sneak preview on today's rank write...I am covering this very issue. I think it will appeal to everyone (except perhaps Yahoo).

Jill