Spamming Search Engines - What is it?

[ihelpyou]

There are Many webmasters and SEO's who have Many different views on what is Spamming, and what should be acceptable. I find it fascinating that experienced SEO's say that "as long as the page is relevant to the search, it should not matter what tricks were used to achieve the rank".

Comments about this?

[Sharon & Roy]

Doug, what a GREAT Question!

We were pondering the same question (after also seeing experienced SEO's say that "as long as the page is relevant to the search, it should not matter what tricks were used to achieve the rank".) and had thought about asking you (along with the moderators and members here) if it might not be a wise idea to have a link from your Forum Home Page to a type of SEO Standards and Ethics Page where YOU, as the Forum Owner, would clearly state what SPAM, IS and IS NOT, when it comes to what your wonderful SEO Community and its leaders will advocate when answering various questions when they relate to SPAM.

In our humble opinion, we just believe that ALL administrators and moderators of any particular Online community should all be in agreement/accordance with each other when answering questions (only those that can be answered as such of course).

We believe that much of the confusion about search engine marketing and the use, misuse or abuse of various Search Engine Optimization Techniques is due to the fact that when folks go to the various sources (SEO Discussion Forums, eMail Lists, Articles, eBooks, etc.) to learn about our industry, they may read one thing here, and quite another thing there and then yet another somewhere else. Conflicting information then becomes even more confusing for them, when they quickly (or slowly) learn that now they also have to determine who the "credible" folks are and who to not heed advice from or hire. It sure sounds like a directory/database of Who's Who of SEO Practitioners is what our industry needs. Something simple, like which SEO Techniques will be used and which ones will never be used by the various participating practitioners who would also be some of our industry's most vocal advocates for and of such a directory. Even adding a simple rate sheet would become very useful for prospects who are on smaller budgets from which to choose. Searches by locality and such could also become a huge plus for such a directory for prospects who desire to do business face to face rather than just via eMail or telephone.

For the new Web Master/Web Site Owner in search of information/answers for their business marketing needs when it comes to the search engines, it is VERY likely for them to come across, wrong, misleading or exaggerated information many more times before they ever find correct or non-exaggerated information.

This is the unfortunate state of our industry today.

We are very sad about this and want to be ACTIVELY advocating the truth about search engine marketing to the "public at large" via any and all means possible.

In light of the recent thread about Ethics and Emerging Standards (http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=794&perpage=1000&pagenumber=1) we can see that our industry is desperately in need of an "active" community of knowledgeable and like-minded SEO Practitioners that will collectively create a visible and easily accessible body of professionals who are willing to take a stand and set some achievable standards and ethical means in order to provide top search engine rankings for their clients and themselves.

We sure know how wonderful it would be for folks to come to a SEO community that would answer their questions about various SEO Techniques and then walk away with the assurance and confidence that they received the truth, instead of walking way shaking their heads, because they just received contradicting advice and now have more unanswered questions than before, which we have seen to be the norm rather than the exception.

Doug, we know that you have said on more than one occasion that when it comes to SEO information and techniques that there are no facts, but only opinions.

We respectfully want to say that when a newbie comes here to learn the "truth/facts" about SEO and for them to then see such a statement (that there are no facts) from the Forum Owner (as well as others), we think it adds to the confusion and misinformation about our industry.

We would rather, see you (and others) say something like this instead ...

---
Disclaimer:

Since Search Engine Optimization is not an exact science we cannot and will not predict any particular outcome you may encounter when you apply the opinions, suggestions and principles found here.

Please Note that although search engines reveal some of their acceptable optimization techniques, rules and guidelines publicly, they do not reveal all of them. They purposely keep certain information a secret so as to not allow spamdexing to become an uncontrollable issue. Therein lies the reason for this forum. To conduct studies and to maintain a current working knowledge of any changes and updates as they are made to the various algorithms and to bring them to you a.s.a.p.
---

[Sharon & Roy]

Originally posted by ihelpyou

There are Many webmasters and SEO's who have Many different views on what is Spamming, and what should be acceptable.

We certainly agree with you Doug. There are many different views on what is Spamming. So the next question is, how does a Newbie know what/who to believe?

I find it fascinating that experienced SEO's say that "as long as the page is relevant to the search, it should not matter what tricks were used to achieve the rank".

Comments about this?

We have several comments on this. First of all, we do not think that the word "tricks" should be part of any SEO's vocabulary. To use a trick to achieve a high ranking, sounds very much like deception to us. Therefore, as a warning to prospects, we would caution them to be very aware of any SEO Practitioner who uses that term, whether orally or in the Web site copy or brochures. This could be a tip off that SPAM techniques will be used.

Next, we'd like to say that ideally and from all common sense view points the above statement sounds right.

The problem with that statement is, that all though it sounds right, and maybe it should even be right, it is NOT right.

Any SEO Practitioner who claims that statement to be true AND optimizes their clients pages that way, could end up doing much more harm for their client than good. Certain techniques that they don't call SPAM (in the name of relevant results) will result in pages being penalized and pushed down to the end of the rankings or worse, banned from the database altogether.

Therefore, in our humble opinion, SPAM must be defined as ...


---------------------<><><><><>-------------------

Any technique used to optimize a Web page that is in direct violation of the rules and/or guidelines set forth by each specific search engine is SPAM.

---------------------<><><><><>-------------------


Whether any SEO Practitioner disagrees with what the search engines deem SPAM is NOT the issue. SPAM is and always will be what the search engines say it is.

So now, we hear you thinking, "What about if one engine says a certain technique is SPAM and another does not?"

In that case, if you want to be optimized for both engines, obey ALL SPAM techniques.

Therefore, we are of the opinion to optimize all your pages in light of the very strictest SPAM techniques in order to achieve the best possible results.

[MazY]

Doug

An interesting topic and one that I tend to agree with you on. There are certainly many different views and opinions and I dare to suggest that not a single one of them is abolutely correct. Even if it were, it may be correct for only a day, a week, a month or until any search engine decided it is incorrect.

As for the "it doesn't matter what tricks are used so long as the page is relevant" - what utters nonsense that is.

The page must be relevant yes. The page must also be honest. If it is using any "trickery" then it falls at the first hurdle. Whilst I keep saying it, one really has to remember that there is also a person that reads the site, not just the spiders. If a user is savvy enough to detect your cheating what does this do the reputation of the company behind it?

Every month I look through the rankings and I see various mathods of spamming. Two questions always spring to mind.

(1) How in the name of all things creamy does it get past the spiders month after month?

(2) Why do these companies feel they need to cheat? Clearly one doesn't need to cheat to get a top ranking. There are more than enough honest members here to testify to that fact. It's all just so pointless and makes the search engines despise us all that little bit more. I fear the we (SEOs) are amongst the worst culprits of it at times. That is sad.

[Advisor]

The MarketingSherpa report (previously discussed in another thread) attempts to explain what are acceptable SEO techniques and what aren't. It also rates some top SEO firms on whether or not they're using what they consider acceptable techniques. In fact, they took my suggestions and made an easy scan chart for this purpose. You'd be surprised how many companies got F's and D's in that respect.

Any newbie looking to outsource SEO services would do well to pay the 100 bucks for the report. If anyone wants the link to purchase it, I am an affiliate and can email it to you. Or Doug may have his own affiliate link to it also.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Every site should be able to stand on it's own. It may need a little help with CONTENT for the search engines, but if a site is designed totally in flash,..... then TOUGH noogies. If it wishes to be ranked....... then Change it, for Heaven's Sake. Get rid of the flash.

There is NO way no one can say that as long as ALL sites are relevant, then no matter how they get ranks is just fine and should not matter. The engines would have to hire SEO police to humanly inspect EVERY cloaker out there and every redirected page and everything else. The spiders could not and would not detect all.

A spider does NOT follow a redirected page. It crawls and indexes the originating page and Stops. These people say that as long as the page being directed to is relevant then all is Not spam. How could you police that?

sheesh.

It is a game that cannot be won. There are those out there who HAVE to use "tricks" to get ranks. They give the excuse that the owner does not want to change the site or the owner wants flash or the owner wants that.

WELL, tell the darn owner to CHANGE his darn site! Ya want search engine traffic? or would you rather have your competitors get the traffic?

We cannot have it both ways. It is either Spam or no Spam.

[MazY]

Another interesting point regarding the clients wishes.

I'm afraid to say that any client asking me for any such tactics is going to be (and has been before today) sorely disappointed. No pride in it for me to cheat a client to the top!

[ihelpyou]

Affiliate link? How would I have one? Where is it?

I would love to see that report.

[ihelpyou]

oh yea, if he/she does not wish to take my very first advice when I see a large flash intro or something,.... I send them on their merry way to go see a Spammer. There are many work-a-rounds to it, but some clients simply do not get it.

and I should add, many SEO's do not get it either. :)

[Advisor]

I can give you the link doug, but you still have to buy the report. The link simply gives me a referral fee if someone buys the report through it. I wish I could send you a copy, but I'm not allowed since they're selling it. You'll get one, though, when they profile your company, most likely.

Jill

[Hope]

I am confused at the need to use tricks. I have worked for a site that required a log in on the front page. This site had 5 words on the front page. None of these words were related to the suject. With meta tags, a good title and listings in ODP and Yahoo, I was able to list this site with every search engine. I was able to obtain top 10 rankings with every keyword we were looking for.

If I can obtain rankings like that with what little I had to work with, then anyone can do it. I used no tricks or gimicks. I used sound techniques.

The owner of the site thought that 25 keywords ranked in the top 10 of every major and many minor search engines wasn't enough. He hired a spam artist. I tried to talk to him and explain what was wrong with what he was going to do. This guy just didn't care. He hired the spam artist and I left the company. Guess what!!! He is paying over $10,000 each month to stay in the search engines under useless terms which are mostly GoTo listings.

I don't feel sorry for him or his company. I was able to do the same thing for him, yet he wanted to deal with an "established" company. This company used cloaking and irrelevant keywords. Oh well, I found a better job where they actaully respect my knowledge.

[JuniorHarris]

>If I can obtain rankings like that with what little I had to work with, then anyone can do it. I used no tricks or gimicks. I used sound techniques.

Great advice! Lean, mean and honest code will work every time. The end does not justify the means, so even relevant trickery is still trickery.