May dance is on!

[skipfactor]

GoogleGuy quote from 30 minutes ago: "... it wouldn't surprise me to see SJ results start to show up at other data centers soon."

Looks like we're Cinco de Mayo dancing! :cheers:

[Bernard]

The results I'm seeing on SJ right now are the pre-April dance results that had me concerned recently:

http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8666

If this is the dance, SJ results are a step in the wrong direction!

[skipfactor]

that's the consensus here: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/12497-15-15.htm

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums skipfactor! :hi:

Who cares about other places? :)

[skipfactor]

Thanks for the warm welcome ihelpyou!

Sorry about that, I get the hint... :)

[ThreeArmedToaster]

GoogleGuy quote from 30 minutes ago: "... it wouldn't surprise me to see SJ results start to show up at other data centers soon."

that doesnt necessarily mean that the update is on, they could just be propagating the sj index to those servers as a test

[3rd eye]

The dance is on www2 now as well

[ThreeArmedToaster]

yes, GG appears to have confirmed that it has begun, although it has got off to a very slow start, just the replicated sj index so far but i guess that should change given time

if it doesnt and the sj remains as the index, it wouldnt be deserved of the title Google Update, Google Rehash would be more appropriate :D

[esavvy]

Wow -- everyone of my sites -- backwards links have been slashed in 1/2 on www2 & www3

[canuck]

Unless I'm misinterpreting something, they've made some changes in their algorithms .... I'm seeing alot of movement in sites.

Anyone else seeing this?

[3rd eye]

It appears that there are some major changes in the algo, especially in link count. All sites have a lot less links now.
But I dont understand why the cache of these sites seems to be from around the 20th of march and the crawl was around 10-15th of April.

[Bighorn]

:steaming: At least they could apply fresh index and filter backwards links before they update all datacenters with new algo.

This will send me (and many others) few pages back until index is refreshed which may take a month.

Not very professional for SE like Google

[3rd eye]

It hasnt gone live on www yet though, so who knows what will happen until then?

[canuck]

Hey all,

I'm trying to put my finger on what is happening, and I do suspect that perhaps they are discounting the value of reciprocal links? I've looked at multiple sites, and this seems to be the common thread of those not faring well so far in this update ... or is it entirely too early to tell? Does anybody else see this?

THanks

[3rd eye]

I think it might be something to do with discounting reciprocal links and guestbook links as well.

[esavvy]

From what I can see - they are discounting links from your own site that participate in reciprocal linking, also. (Hopefully that was clear).

All I can say is Wow - this is going to change our world.

[SunTzu]

What does "SJ" stand for?

Thanks

Jeff

[scottiecl]

Totally unbelievable... so many of the interlinked spammy results are missing in ww2, ww3. One of my sites has jumped 43 places in the serps for a very competitive phrase.

I have to say the sites above mine (for once) really deserve to be there. I am very impressed with this new index from the point of view of the searcher.

<added> OK, some really bizzarre results for a minor search term. I have never seen the SERPs for these terms so completely different between the old and new. I quit watching the dance several months ago but I agree- this one is going to change everything! Very, very interesting.

[scottiecl]

Originally posted by SunTzu
What does "SJ" stand for? Hey Jeff-

It stand for San Jose- one of Google's datacenters.

[SunTzu]

Thanks Scottie
I appreciate it.

[3rd eye]

Why is the SJ data centre so important, and why are we seeing it displayed on www2?

[esavvy]

I agree that the changes look to the better. But there will be innocents affected by this. I have a client that got adversely affected and did no wrong. (web design client) Looks like the portfolio was considered reciprocal linking and all those pages are now disregarded in backlinks - too bad... because now we have to change the portfolio to NOT link to client's sites.

[scottiecl]

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet... and probably not for another month or two.

Something this big may be rolled back before it makes it to www or even next month. I would say sit tight for at least 1-2 more updates and see what happens.

You can't say this industry is boring!

[3rd eye]

I agree, wait to next update to get a better idea of how this will be.

[MakeMeTop]

It has rolled out on www and .co.uk for me. The fastest update I've seen on the UK.

Much hysteria at WMW. All the reciprocal cross-linkers having a bad case of the trembles. :)

Precursor of continual rolling updates I think.

[3rd eye]

Yes it is showing on www here as well, that was quick

[scottiecl]

Still showing different results from here... ww2 and ww3 have lined up though.

[lightning_drew]

We took a MAJOR (I mean top of the line) keyword phrase. with this. I really can't believe it!

About the backward links, it appears, in our case, they've pretty much reverted them back to what they were before the April dance. We had 170 backlinks going into the dance and 35 coming out. Those are the same 35 we had going into the April dance.

From what I've seen with us, they don't seem to do updating of backlinks and page rank every month. More like every other month.

[merrick_lozano]

I would not worry too much about these changes in results, it is not the final update of links factoring into pagerank yet, at least not as we see it right now on Cinco de Mayo.

I was looking at the cache of a dmoz category for a site that was included into Google on the last dance - on the servers where there are changes, the cache of sites are from before the last dance. Why would they go back in time for dmoz's cache, obviously they will not do this permanently, which to me means that they are not up to anything permanent yet.

I think Jill summed it up well

Originally posted by Advisor
LOL...have read the first few pages of posts in the wmw thread. Those guys just crack me up.

You gotta know that Google just like's foolin' with them all. Gives them a good laugh after hours reading all the silly little webby nerds having heart attacks cuz one datacenter is being weird.

Gotta love it!

[3rd eye]

Maybe when it was on the sj server you didnt have to take it seriously, but it is on www2 now.

[simbirley]

just a message to say that my site is showing on www2 as having links from guestbooks and forums so i dont think that the algorithm has changed in that respect.

[esavvy]

I do not believe the algorithm changed wrt guestbooks. Its the reciprical links. -- and yes.. the backlinks seem to be old.

[steelcityinternet]

All my main spammy competitors with their guestbook links are still there in the top ten for my main key phrase, so I doubt that's the issue.

So far, I've noticed this:

My home page is optimised for two key phrases. A search for these key phrases now does not bring up my homepage, only some other internal pages.

My homepage is still in the index - it comes up on some random searches.

The 2 key phrases my homepage is optimised for are the ones I ask people to use in anchor text when linking to me.

My conclusion at the moment is that it is likely that I am reciprocating a link with a dodgy site and I've invoked a penalty related to the key phrases that site is using in their link to me.

Let the dust settle and see ...

[esavvy]

SteelCityInternet,

What you are seeing is similar to what I have seen on many client sites --and in particular on a local web design site .. anchor text is the same on all clients sites...he is nowhere to be seen for this anchor text.

[steelcityinternet]

Hopefully someone will be able to fathom the exact problem - it must be down to the reciprocal nature of the links, as I cant see how any site can ever get penalised for incoming links alone as you have no control over this.

I never had a links page until two months ago - I'm beginning to regret this move...

Thankfully, I am still no.1 for my main regional key phrase (the one that actually gets me all my jobs).

[foghorn]

I hate to say this, but if the results hold as they are, what I am seeing with my sites is less emphasis on larger, informative sites with lots of content. And less emphasis on gearing that content toward a specific keyword. I know that's not what a lot of people here want to hear. Me neither. But results are results...

[OptWizard]

I saw this post else where

a) They are rolling out a new ALGO... not new DATA (ie: recent crawl results)
b) The data will be applied shortly

I would therefore suggest that this is not a new index as we are accustomed to seeing. It is simply an adjusted algo applied to an older database (and as several people have remarked, probably a pre-April dbase with some additions and perhaps using an older DMOZ for example).

It's a strange approach, as a number of authoritative sites (in industry not the Google sense) have been lost. Yes, they may well re-appear with the normal re-index in a week or whatever, but it's a strange way of doing things: rolling out new software with testbed data?

The bottom line for webmasters?

1) Expect this lower grade Google to remain in place for at least a few days
2) The missing links MAY then return, and with them an improvement in results and result quality
3) The last crawl results will also be applied shortly.

Why? Anyone's guess. I would say they are in too much of a rush and should have rolled out the data update before the software update. This sort of situation helps no-one

This helps makes this new update make sense...

[lightning_drew]

From what I'm seeing, only the backlinks are old. The page caches are from the latest crawl.

[Webmaster T]

Originally posted by canuck
I'm trying to put my finger on what is happening, and I do suspect that perhaps they are discounting the value of reciprocal links? I've looked at multiple sites, and this seems to be the common thread of those not faring well so far in this update ... or is it entirely too early to tell? Does anybody else see this?IMHO, this is not new I started noticing it a couple of dances ago. One site fell from 6 to twelve those that moved up had significantly more links which weren't reciprocal. It's about time PR was an indicatuion of "value" rather then how well promoted a site is for links. Unfortunately those that don't truly understand what PR is supposed to reflect will think G is being naughty. Those that do say "it's about time"! Now that the site has fallen I know I have to add new content and real "value" to the site rather than asking more Members to link to the site.

[Kots]

Bye Eric...:(

[Allura]

Hi Webmaster T,
In light of what you think is going on, do you think that the next step will be for Google to address all of the mini-site/fake affiliate stuff, designed to artificially manipulate link popularity?

can they realistically do anything to discount incoming links from fake affiliate sites that are all related to the same company?

A.

[Webmaster T]

Originally posted by Allura
In light of what you think is going on, do you think that the next step will be for Google to address all of the mini-site/fake affiliate stuff, designed to artificially manipulate link popularity?FWIW, the webmaster guidelines mention they don't want affiliate sites, however that can be hard to find and negate programmatically. Mini sites I think they handle quite well if they are on the same network. Hence the stuff about avoiding that if you're going to do it. That is also why the DMOZ link is important to them. DMOZ absolutely checks for affiliate and mini site submissions. Though some are found they are IMHO, legacy listings or poor editing that got in before they clamped down on it.

Mostly I think it is about reciprocal linking campaigns. The software types were quickly squashed. They aren't stupid, when most of what you see recently talks only about linking to optimize, like all touted techniques they step in and negate it. IMHO, that is what is happening.

[rockynate]

I agree with this being recently-old data on www2. The title changes I made last month to one site are there on www2, but the new page that was indexed less than 2 weeks ago is not.

[skipfactor]

Yessir, I'm seeing major algo/SERP changes, plenty of dancing left hopefully 'cause I'm showing one backlink. :eek:

ADDED: I must say I'm very pleased with the changes, significant improvement on my kwd phrases. My Google-based traffic has DOUBLED since 5/5. Long live www-sj! :)

[skipfactor]

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions yet... and probably not for another month or two.

Exactly, I would guess things won't be settled until the next update...roller coaster ride for sure. :cool:

I wasn't here then but remember the www-ex move last update? Now with the -sj, I'm betting a new "stealth" dance initialization each month; perhaps not to fool honest Webmasters but to trip up the spammers.

If all of us have less time to optimize before deepcrawl who wins? IMHO, the steady sites that are cleanly optimized in the first place. And Google garners a little "free" automatic (they love automatic) spam elimination to boot.

Now we have to guess the "www-sj" of next month. :rolleyes:

ADDED: I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall at other SEs' "Google Update Committee" meetings right now!

[rockynate]

I'm perplexed.

I guess I'll have to retract my previous statement, because I just looked at the cached page of another site of mine from www2 and the cached page is current to changes I made just last Saturday.

Wonderful jump in the SERPs as well!

I guess we'll just have to wait this one out to really see what it means in the long term. So far, though, all of the SERPs I've checked on www2 are greatly improved on my sites. Perhaps it is because I don't use reciprocal linking in my tactics...

[Allura]

hey all,
our position dropped a little from 2 to 6..no huge change. We are anywhere from 2-6 on any given dance.

we did not make any changes to our site in the last month and have a very small number of reciprocal links.

the previous month, we changed our title tag. This moved us from 6 in March to 2 in april.

Now we are back at 6.

hope that helps the head-scratchers out there to identify a pattern!
A.

[merrick_lozano]

Originally posted by rockynate
I guess I'll have to retract my previous statement, because I just looked at the cached page of another site of mine from www2 and the cached page is current to changes I made just last Saturday.


The cached pages are updated on www2 now but I also noticed that new links from dmoz do not appear from last month when I query for backlinks. I think there is still a ways to go before the dust settles.

[ihelpyou]

Oh yes.

Like I think I seem to say every month; NO use of looking at the dance as it is not what it seems and will not be what it 'is' until it's completely over.

[Robin A]

I put a site on the web on Sunday and yesterday, 6th May, it has been added to google results http://www.chinook-american-motorhomes.co.uk/ with the cache date as 6th May.
Is it normal for Google to continue to update their web pages during a dance? I am not complaining, as my main keyphase 'american motor homes' is in at number 1&2 out of 403,000, but I did not think this happened.

[ihelpyou]

That means that Google knows about the site now. That's all. If you have qualtiy links coming into it, the site 'may' stay in. If you don't, don't expect the site to stay in. ALL new sites are analyzed thoroughly before 'sticking'.