Response to tender - SEO

[danielp]

As part of a tender we are responding to (for a Content Management System, and other services), they want us to include the following:

The [site name] site needs to be submitted to a number leading search engines. We therefore require a service which will submit the portal details to at least 10 of the top search engines including: Google UK, Yahoo, Freeserve, MSN UK, Alta Vista, Excite and Ask Jeeves. In order to do this a range of effective and meaningful key words must be specified and agreed. Due to the nature of this service, we are only willing to pay based upon results. The exact conditions of this clause will be finalised upon selection of contract however an initial target would be to gain a top 10 placement with the agreed keywords. In order to review the positioning of the portal we would also expect the service to provide monthly position monitoring reports.

I wanted people's opinions on the following points:

1. How would people structure the pricing for this? They are asking for payment on results - how do people deal with clients who want you to work on this payment structure?

2. How do I tell them (nicely) that you don't have to submit the site to the leading search engines, you just need some good quality backward links (from the big directories to start with), and the search engines will follow?

3. Is it still worth paying for a Yahoo! entry?

4. How would you deal with the 'top 10 placement' clause? Should I say that this cannot be guaranteed. Or that it can be guaranteed via paid-listings.


If this was all we were doing for them, then I would be very 'blunt' (for want of a better word) and tell them exactly how it is. However, as this is only part of a very large tender that's worth a fair bit - and we don't say anything that will put them off before we get a chance to sit down and talk it through with them in detail. The nature of the tender is very formal, and we don't get a chance to discuss anything with them until after they have read all the tender proposals and decided who they want to invite in to talk further.

Would the best approach be to say what they want to hear ina vague way, and then tell them how it is if we get to the next stage?

I'd appreciate any opinions and thoughts.

Daniel

[scottiecl]

Personally, I'd walk away from this client. No one can guarantee top 10 rankings... you are likely to do a signifigant amount of work and not get paid.

If it is someone you are having meetings with, try to explain things to them- it is possible they just don't know any better. If someone else wants the job, let them have it!

[danielp]

Thanks for the reply.

That's exactly what we'd do if the SEO was all we were offering to this client. However, the tender covers many other elements (mostly the provision of a CMS), and would bring in a lot of money for us.

The SEO is probably a small part of the total project in terms of revenue, but is obviously too important to brush over in the tender document.

I need a way to tell them how it needs to be approached differently (as they obviously have a limited knowledge of SEO), but without giving them a 'take it or leave it' option.

[scottiecl]

That's fair enough.

Many of the people who write these RFP's just do a little research on the internet to decide what to include... it very well could be that they are willing to negotiate on the "top 10" terms.

Good luck!

[danielp]

I'm hoping that they're flexible with their demands, and are willing to listen.

If we're successful and get the work, I'll tell you how I get on!

Thanks again.

Daniel

[Alan Perkins]

The way the RFP is written indicates that the writer doesn't really understand the topic. It's up to you to take a lead in this instance.

[danielp]

It isn't the only area where they don't appear to understand what they want.

Like I said the indicative budget they have provided is large, but they are unclear as to exactly what they want - but are asking for lots of specifics.

We are confident that we are ideally placed to provide the solution they need - but we have to convince them of this on paper. 5 minutes in a room with them, and we'd have it in the bag.

As far as the SEO requirements, I've been fairly vague, and if we do get invited to talk, then I can go into more detail. We've often found that once we have been awarded a contract the direction of the project will change 180 degrees.

What about the 'pay on results' clause? We'd probably be willing to take part payment up front, and the rest on results. Maybe even suggest a regular payment to be made as long as the site remains in the results for the specific search terms?

[haystack]

danielp, make sure that CMS is search engine friendly. Unfortunately, that is often overlooked with CMS products just like it is with a lot of shopping cart software.

[Alan Perkins]

Originally posted by danielp
What about the 'pay on results' clause? They don't specify whether they mean PPC or SEO. Your main goal should be to get that face-to-face so you can work with them to discover exactly what they need.

[Webmaster T]

Who gives guarantees and will do based on performance SEO. Spammers and quick buck artists. They'll pay and pay and pay until they realize it isn't paying **them** to do it. I would also be very careful I want at least an hour of their time to:

*Figure out their **real** goals not what they think they are
*determine what constitutes conversion, placement or raw traffic is just stupid! IMHO, it should be a user action after they reach the site not just arrive
*budget: determine the type of Campaign blended PPC or pure SEO
*do I really want to work with them or will I be better off to decline
* what do I have to work with [new site, re-develop, perform SEO magic and turn a sows ear into a silk purse]
* their business: do I give a crap about it and more importantly --do I understand it--

Minimum 1 hr. on the phone, or better still, face to face.
That's when they get a proposal until then UHUH it's probably a waste of time to write the proposal!

IMHO how can you give a proposal that benefits all without knowing at least these basic things!

[SunTzu]

It sounds like your client knows just enough to be dangerous.
He thinks he knows what he's talking about but doesn't completely understand SEO and PPC.

I believe as in most cases you have to educate the client and offer both SEO and PPC.

Good luck.

Jeff

[danielp]

danielp, make sure that CMS is search engine friendly. Unfortunately, that is often overlooked with CMS products just like it is with a lot of shopping cart software.

We know that the CMS is search-engine friendly - because it was completely developed in-house.

It's something that a lot of competitors don't seem to bother about, which I find surprising. At least that gives us an advantage in the marketplace.

[stevew]

Two points :

1) Pricing structure
Separate out the SE part and -- if they insist -- make payment guarantees apply to this alone. Payment for the CMS, for example, (which, in itself, you would guarantee to work) should not depend on SE results.
It is often good practice for clients to have one source of supply for its Internet activity, but it is good practice for the provider to separate out the elements of the services provided.

2) Guarantees
I don't see why guarantees should apply solely to "Spammers and quick buck artists" : I often give them, and I'm neither.
Just be careful to guarantee terms and time frames that allow you to deliver.
Sometimes it's easier than you expect, sometimes it's harder. That's business.