Yet another Bulk Submit Program

[Kal]

Hi all - just got a spam email from yet ANOTHER bulk submit program - but I've never seen this one before. Note they will submit your site to 250K engines and directories! (and here I am thinking that there are only 10 or 20 important ones :rolleyes: ) Check it out:

---------------------------------------
Get maximum market reach by submitting your Web site
to 250,000 search engines and directories!

Dear Kal,

You're just a click away from reaching a huge audience of
active buyers ... the 85% of Web users who use search engines
and directories to find products and services.

Your ticket to this extraordinary market is EnterURL, the ultimate
Web Site Positioning Service ...

Many InternetSeer subscribers are already successfully
attracting more traffic to their Web sites by utilizing EnterURL.
InternetSeer itself has achieved top rankings with this service!

Now, thanks to an amazing technological breakthrough, the reach
of EnterURL's submission service is about to take a quantum leap.
Now your Web site can be submitted to a quarter-million search
engines and directories!

Be where the buyers are

Get listed ahead of your competition

Have your site analyzed and optimized
for maximum search engine effectiveness

Get started in minutes

EnterURL does everything for you

Nobody comes close to the vast market reach you can achieve
with EnterURL. Click here to learn more about how to maximize your search engine traffic!

Cordially,

Kane Bender
VP, InternetSeer eBusiness Development Team
----------------------

Note I am posting this here to warn people that this is a bulk submit program - not to be confused with good old manual submission. Anyone who considers using this type of program should be warned of the dangers of bulk submitting to engines (can be deemed as spamdexing by some engines and will also result in you being sent lots of spam in return via FFA links).

[ihelpyou]

Yep. And they are making money off of out of the know webmasters. These types of companies should be blown up and abolished from the web.

[JuniorHarris]

> Now your Web site can be submitted to a quarter-million search
engines and directories!

Wow 250,000 engines and directories, would love to see that list, if one does exist. Now send me 250,000 visitors and maybe you have something.

I have to reiterate Doug's philosophy of not even submitting to the engines. Most decent crawling engines (which generate traffic) will find most sites without even having to submit to any engine. Just be sure to have at least one quality inbound link, and maybe a listing in DMOZ or LookSmart and you should be all set.

You'll probably get more spam then traffic from these "bulk" programs!~

[MazY]

Originally posted by ihelpyou
These types of companies should be blown up and abolished from the web.

lol. I remember when a firm telling off would do. How things change....

[Hope]

I didn't think there were 250,000 search engine and directories out there. I guess they will attempt to submit your site to the 100 or so search engines and directories, and 240,900 FFA pages. Doesn't that sound lovely.

The sad part of this is there will be people who actaully buy into it. There are so many people who don't have a clue as to what is going on.

[jjj0923]

Kal, I got the same message and I have to respectfully disagree with you.

1. You failed to include in your post that this email was not spam and that the reason you receied it was because you opted into a free service that pays for their service via email advertising. Instead you called the email "SPAM".

The text at the bottom of my message, which you conveniently did not include in yours, says:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"This information about EnterURL is being sent to you as part of your Free InternetSeer Web site monitoring service. If you do not wish to view and receive such communications, you may cancel your account by logging in to our web site and going to the Cancel Account section, or by replying to this email with the word "Cancel" in the subject line. IMPORTANT: If you do this, your InternetSeer Web site monitoring account will automatically be terminated and you will receive no further service or contact from InternetSeer. "

2. I also use Internetseer's Free Web site monitoring service and they clearly state on their "Services Agreement" page the following:

" By becoming an InternetSeer Subscriber, you agree to receive email communications including monitoring alerts, weekly reports, announcements, updates and other carefully screened special offers and promotions. This is essential to maintaining certain services free to our subscribers."

Like you, I am against Spam, but I hate to see a good and one of the few good FREE services bashed for reasons that are not ligitimate. The folks at Inernetseer ARE NOT spammers.


respectfully submitted:

Jeffrey J. Jennings
CIO
Internetseer.com

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Jeffrey! :hi:

We appreciate you posting to explain the email. While I understand that this might not have been spam and that Kal may have opted in, the main point is that we all see these types of hyped up emails ALL the time.

These submission programs are bogus and NO one can dispute that fact. There is Not a gazzillion search engines and you and everyone knows it. Newbies to the net and newbies to the search engines are who are taken in by this hype.

I certainly would not wish to be a newsletter that advertised these kinds of companies who only have one goal, to scam new people to the net. A newsletter can make choices on who to allow advertising to. You made the choice to advertise this to your subscribers. You have to take the responsibility when Your subscribers get taken by this and/or your subscribers get penalized or banned for using these programs.
carefully screened special offers and promotions.
No one too bright could have screened this advertiser. If they were, these scams would not be advertised anywhere.

[MazY]

Whilst the "click here" things seem very nice and very civil, they are the one thing that I never ever do!

I am willing to accept some half-wit feeling it a good idea to send me spam on any number of subjects from gas-powered toothbrushes to consolidate your loan (always in dollars LOL) for only the price of a newspaper. However, what I will not do under any circumstance is give the half-wit the pleasure of me confirming my e-mail is alive and kicking, thanks all the same.

Sorry but those "Click here to be removed from our list" things really bloody irritate me.

Kind of like me ringing Doug to try to sell him my latest "Swap your dog for a million dollars" (No, make that pounds sterling being as I always get my offers in damned dollars!) offer and then insisting he ring me back (with my call monitoring turned on) to prevent me from doing it again.

[Hope]

I have to respectfully disagree with you. When I opt in to use a free service, I will click on banners to help support the free service. I will not opt in to a service that does NOT give me the option to not recieve junk mail. You offer your services for free, but require people to recieve mail they do not want or need. This is still spam. They opted to recieve your service. There is a huge difference. Call it what ever you want. It is spam in my eyes.

I also have to agree with Doug. The "service" your clients are recieving is a fraud. There isn't that many and everyone knows it. I would have to think twice about a company that sponsers such fraud.

[jjj0923]

Thanks for your message Doug and thank you for the welcome.

To set the record straight. We own EnterURL and we developed all the code. We know all the FFA's and we know all the Search engines. We currently monitor over 870,000 websites every hour for free. We are the largest Web Sites monitoring company - bar none.

There are NO FALSE claims on the EnterURL website, NONE. We have the URL's to prove it and EnterURL submits customers sites to every one. I invite you to visit the EnterURL site and see a sample report.

Doug, I am a seasoned IT veteran and have been in this business for over 27 years and I know that you don't build good reputations mis-leading people. We never mis-lead anyone and go to great pains to insue that any service we promote is of the highest quality.

You wrote: " You made the choice to advertise this to your subscribers."

Response: Yes we did and we did it with a clear conscience that we knew we deliver on what is advertised. We will continue to Promote EnterURL because we know it's a great service and we know it works and works well.

You wrote: "You have to take the responsibility when Your subscribers get taken by this and/or your subscribers get penalized or banned for using these programs."

Response: Of course we take responsibility. I and everyone of the other Senior Management team here stand behind every service we promote.

For the record, other services we have promoted to date include:
Webtrends
Atwatch.com
Bizfinity
Bizfilings
Infpopia
and other 5 star quality services. Our subscribers can rest assured that Internetseer will only promote Quality Services that we personally have checked out and know are ligitimate.

Thanks again Doug for the welcome to this forum. I am looking forward to being a very active participant.

regards

- jeff jennings

[jjj0923]

Hope:

Spam is unsolicited email. If the user is informed that they will receive promotional mailings when they opt-in to a service then the email is not un-solicted.

There is no mis-interpretation here.


:)

- jeff

[ihelpyou]

There are NO FALSE claims on the EnterURL website, NONE. We have the URL's to prove it and EnterURL submits customers sites to every one. I invite you to visit the EnterURL site and see a sample report.
Oh Yes Jeffrey. I have seen and know all about these Url's. Waaay back when, about 6 years ago or so, I too got taken by this kind of hype. I was new, I was niave. I received no less than 450 spam emails a day from all the sites the program submitted to. I was taken. I even gave these people 15 bucks to do this..... Spam me.

I am sorry Jeffrey, but I respectfully disagree with you completely. This submission program of yours is very bogus and will Hurt your clients in a big way, especially with a search engine like Google.

These programs are what I am trying to abolish from the net and I do believe I will be successful one day. They give true SEO's a bad name.

[MazY]

Hi Jeff and welcome....

As the official forum rottweiller I feel it falls upon me to do the quizzing... :)

if I accept that you do not see yourself as a spamming company, and I have no reason to doubt you as I don't know enough about the company to put my judge hat on, please clarify the following for me.

If we accept that there are 250,000 search engines and directories and let's be brutally honest, both you and I know that even if there were they would be so far removed from credible that they would blow smoke as you walked past them, how do you anticipate that submitting to each and every one of them will improve the site owner's marketing campaign?

Validating that each of the 250,000 esists is nowhere near the same as knowing that each of theat 250,000 is a credible search engine or directory that will benefit the customer.

Many newbies are impressed by big numbers and 250,000 sounds great on the face of it. Hell, I have even had clients ask "Why can't we do that?". Such is the power of dazzling newbies with the big number theory.

But what good do you actually see it doing for the client?

[ihelpyou]

But what good do you actually see it doing for the client?
Yes, very good question and one I am anxiously awaiting the answer to. Gee, golly gee, if I would have known 5 years ago that all I had to do was become a Subspamming company instead of a SEO, I would not have nearly the workload that I have today. Shoot, I missed out on a great opportunity to simply submit my clients to a gazzillion search engines and watch as the BIG time traffic flocked to their sites and bought lots of products. :D

[Alan Perkins]

Welcome to the forums Jeffrey.

Thanks for taking the time to make your position clear.

You promised "carefully screened special offers and promotions", and by signing up for your services that is what your subscribers are agreeing to. If you don't deliver them carefully screened special offers and promotions, you are spamming them. You do not say whether you carefully screened this service, or the screening criteria you use.

I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt. I am therefore worried about the potential reputational damage to you. I second Doug's opinion, but would have worded it like this:

A newsletter can make choices on who to allow advertising to. You made the choice to advertise this to your subscribers. Your reputation will suffer if your subscribers take up this offer and get spammed and/or penalized by search engines, especially as you allowed your name to be used as an example of a satisfied customer.

I hope for your sake that does not happen.

[Hope]

There are NO FALSE claims on the EnterURL website, NONE.

I would love to see all 250,000 search engines and directories! If you are calling FFA pages a directory, then you are not telling the truth. I have been working with search engines and directories for a long time and I haven't found nearly that many. I honestly can't believe that there have been 250,000 search engines total since the internet started long ago.

Heidi

[ihelpyou]

Yes Alan, but not only do they advertise that type of services, as Jeffrey clearly said....... internetseer OWNS EnterURL as well. :rolleyes:

They ARE the SubmissionSpammer Company.

[Alan Perkins]

Yes, about my last post...

A lot happened while I was writing it!

Basically, it was just in response to Jeffrey's first post and Doug's first reply (before he edited it). I must be a s l o w typer or something.

[Later edit: I think I must have some sort of connection problem ... received a cached version of the page, or somesuch]

[ihelpyou]

Doug, I am a seasoned IT veteran and have been in this business for over 27 years and I know that you don't build good reputations mis-leading people.
Again Jeffrey, I am sorry, but your type of company is the types that really get up my goat and I dispise with a passion. You say 27 years as a tech guy? Since when did that qualify you as a knowledgeable type fella when it comes to the search engines? I know VERY few true tech people who know much about the search engines.

I know VERY little about the technical side and hire out tech people to help me. I certainly would never claim to know something that I truly do not. You should not either, and neither should your company. You are trying to make a buck off the newbies to the net with a service that is only proven to give the client SPAM. Not professional by anyone's definition. I am strongly against this on every level.

[ihelpyou]

I must be a s l o w typer or something.
Ya got the one finger peck perfected there Alan. :p

I have to admit I was typing champ in high school. I also played the piano for 7 years so have very nimble fingers. :D

PLUS, I was an all-state baseball player and MVP two years in a row,.... not that this even pertains, just thought I'd throw that in. :cool: Man of many talents.

[Hope]

Doug you are multi-talented, I am impressed. I wonder what else you can do that you are hiding from us.

[ihelpyou]

LOL. Well, I played all four sports in high school. Yes, track season and baseball season was at the same time. I split practices half and half for each. Football and basketball were good for me as well. I was what you call a "jock" in high school.

Along with a piano player? Go figure. :thebomb:

[ihelpyou]

Looks like our friend Jeff might not respond to the question. Gee, wonder why?

Okay, so maybe we are a little harsh?

Naw, don't think so. These so-called services need to be abolished from the net.

[Alan Perkins]

Doug, one of your earlier replies said "these types of companies should be blown up..." - have you decided that mere abolishment will do?

I hope Jeff sticks around. I like a good debate. You don't learn by debating with people who agree with you. (Neither will Jeff).

Be nice to him if he comes back, you acid-tongued jock-ular pianist. :D

[ihelpyou]

Oh yes, as long as he does not promote his program, he is welcome to be here. Actually, he could learn a bunch from here that would benefit his company greatly. Then maybe he could wean his company from this type of service.

[Hope]

I would like him to come back also. I want the list of 250,000 search engines. I would love to see them.

[Kal]

[i]We never mis-lead anyone and go to great pains to insue that any service we promote is of the highest quality.
[/B]

Hi Jeff - putting aside the spam email question for now, your statement above is false, in my opinion. You are already misleading people by suggesting:

a) There are 250,000 search engines & directories
b) Web sites need to be submitted to all these engines
c) FFA sites are a good way to promote web sites

This means you are certainly not providing a service of "the highest quality". If you were really up to speed with effective web site promotion, you would be aware that there are only 10 (or 20 at a push!) search engines and directories that are important in terms of traffic delivery. That figure is reducing all the time.

You would also be aware that the use of FFA to promote web sites is often seen as "spamdexing" by engines and can cause a web site to suffer a ranking penalty or be dropped from a search engine altogether.

Our criticisms may seem a little harsh, but with good reason. This type of mis-information makes us very mad, because it feeds the already poor reputation of the SEO industry and makes it difficult for us to educate our target market in the "right" way to promote their sites via search engines. We feel services such as yours are irresponsible, because they will do the user (and the engines!) more harm than good.

I do appreciate your posting and I hope you stick around to share ideas with us. You may even change your mind about what constitutes successful web site promotion!

[Oh - and Doug, I play the piano too! Have played since I was five, but with a break between the ages of 20-30 as I had better things to do :rolleyes: Now I know better]

[jjj0923]

that's surprising coming from you taking into consideration that your site is mentioned on so many FFA....

:confused:

[jjj0923]

sorry I could not reply to many of your messages yesterday. I love a good debate, but we are very busy at work and I have limited time to psoting, but rest assured responses will be coming as time permits.

:) - jeff

[ihelpyou]

Well Jeff, many of us might still have links on FFA pages from a couple of years ago when it seemed to help link pop a little. You have to realize 2 years in internet time is like ten in real life. You simply have to keep up.

You have to roll with the times. Being that your firm is tech oriented only, there is no way you can keep up with the rules of the search engines. This forum can help you with that. Trust me. Your program is VERY bad right now. You can be assured of that. ALL programs like yours out there are bad. Myself and MAny others are doing our best to warn newbies to the net about those programs.

[jjj0923]

I would like to get back to my original post and ask Kal to respond to my original two questions.

1) Why did he label the email spam when clearly it was not?

2) Why did he choose not to post the entire message which clearly showed why he was receiving the message in the first place?

thank you...

- jeff

ps: ihelpyou - I truly take offense to your last remark. It was very unprofessional.

[Alan Perkins]

Look forward to the debate Jeff!

When you are ready, just start off with MazY's question:

What good do you see [submitting to 250000 FFAs] doing for the client?

Because most of us think it does more harm than good.

Here's our logic:

85% of Web users use search engines and directories
90% of that 85% use a top-branded search engine or directory
Being in 250000 FFAs can affect your positions in those top-branded search engines
Therefore, altough you are in more places, you are actually seen less

[Alan Perkins]

Sorry Jeff, you posted while I was writing that. Kal isn't online on present, but surely you can see she's a girl! (or do you have avatars switched off)

I think we all agreed that you sending the e-mail to Kal wasn't spam, and thanks for helping us to clear that up. The issue hinged on whether you had carefully screened the service. We could not believe you had, but you had (using your own screening criteria, which you do not publish).

[Mel]

Well Jeffery .....
You will pardon me if I am a bit skeptical, but as one of the older members here I really cannot understand your statement that you have been "in this business" for 27 years - by my math that would be 1974 and there were precious few computers around in those days outside of research labs and no internet any where.

But putting that aside for a minute, the good folks at your company must know something that the rest of us do not know, I am always willing to learn and thus I have a couple of questions for you:

1. Have you actual evidence that the 250,000 submissions were actually received and acknowledged? IF so please rent a couple of trucks and send it to Doug for verification.

2. IF so did you actually get more than 250,000 email replies ( I once submitted to an FFA site and got about ten emails for every entry) and file them away?

3. Do any of these FFA sites keep your URL on their pages long enough for a search engine to spider them?

4. IF all the above is true can you give us any idea why any sane person would want to submit to all these rather questionable sites?

5. Why do you think that submitting to FFA sites is the same a submitting to search engines?

In the likely event that none of the above can be answered in the affirmative, would you please be so kind as to tender a public apology to all those folks whose good money you have taken for rather dubious purposes and promise never to do it again?

[ihelpyou]

My remarks were VERY professional Jeff. I only speak the facts and the truth when it comes to programs that rip people off.

Your program and the many others out there are what are truly unprofessional. I really wish you would acknowledge that very well known fact.

[ihelpyou]

What does really boggle the mind is the very fact that you DO HAVE A VERY GOOD SERVICE that many people DO like and find Very useful. (your good monitoring service)

Why do you delute this by promoting and offering another so-called service that most EVERY single owner/webmaster that has any clue at all KNOWS is bogus? Why Jeff?

[Mel]

Hi Again Jeffery:
Originally posted by Jeffery
There are NO FALSE claims on the EnterURL website, NONE.

From the enterURL website
* EnterURL will submit your Web site
every month for an entire year!
A Proven way to maximize and
maintain your search engine
rankings!

I perceive the two statements above are in direct contradiction as submitting your site to 250,000 FFA sites every month is a proven way to ruin not only your search engine rankings but your peace of mind as you should receive about ten million spam emails in response to this program

[ihelpyou]

A Proven way to maximize and
maintain your search engine
rankings!
Proven? By who?

Have you heard about the search engine conferences that are held at various places about 3=4 times a year? If so, then you know that the top experts in the field attend this and many speak about the search engines.

I cannot recall any speaker talking about why it is good to submit to a gazzillion FFA pages. Maybe I am wrong and have missed this. Not sure, so maybe Jeff can help us out here.

JEFF. We are only trying to help you as it is painfully obvious that for whatever reason your firm is not up to snuff on the current rules and ethics of the search engines and the good ways to promote. Please understand this.

You have made a good start by posting and reading in here. I do suggest you read as much as you can in the forums as this will benefit you greatly.

[Advisor]

I don't have anything useful to add to this discussion. But I just really liked Alan's name for Dougie: acid-tongued jock-ular pianist

I think he should change his handle to that :D

Jill

[Hope]

Jeff,

I am still waiting for an answer to my question. Do you have a list of the 250,000 search engines and directories? Of course you don't, because these are FFA pages. These are not directories or search engines. I guess your site does lie.

[ihelpyou]

Well, one thing about it, as all can see on my main site quite clearly, I am not one to beat around the bush. I speak my thoughts openly, especially when it comes to my industry. I am brutally honest and NOT to a fault. My clients respect me for that. Some of them I have scolded on numerous occassions, but those "some" are still with me even after two years or more.

Most people respect the brutal truth. Even if it sometimes is very harsh.

[Alan Perkins]

Thanks Jill. The full quote wasBe nice to him if he comes back, you acid-tongued jock-ular pianist.Fat lot of notice he took of it!

Can I suggest we post no more until Jeff replies? There's more than enough for him to be getting on with here.

Jeff, if you're reading, please try to filter the emotions from the logic. People round here feel pretty strongly about spam, with good reason. But from here on, three things might happen

1) We might learn something
2) You might learn something
3) We both may learn nothing, and go away feeling self-righteous or offended

I would like either or both 1 and 2 to be the outcome.

[Kal]

I was sleeping while all these new posts were happening and I hope Alan will understand if I sneak a post in here responding to Jeff's latest direct questions to me:

Originally posted by jjj0923
that's surprising coming from you taking into consideration that your site is mentioned on so many FFA....


Jeff - you're scaring me - what are these FFA's where you claim my site is mentioned? I have NEVER submitted to FFA's as far as I'm aware. Could you please post a couple of links here (deliberately break the links so we can't click on them please).

Originally posted by jjj0923
I would like to get back to my original post and ask Kal to respond to my original two questions.

1) Why did he label the email spam when clearly it was not?

2) Why did he choose not to post the entire message which clearly showed why he was receiving the message in the first place?


I am, as my colleagues pointed out, female. :) In answer to these questions:

1) I thought it WAS spam because I don't remember opting in to receive any email from EnterURL/InternetSeer. In fact, I don't think the method you use to "inform" people they will receive email constitutes an opt-in. It should've been made clearer during the sign up, IMO.

2) The extra para you chose to include was in tiny little writing in the email I received and I assumed it was the usual copyright/trademark/virus free info. My main concern was the service itself, so I posted what I thought was the most relevant part of the email.

Let me make it clear that InternetSeer is a valuable service - check out the "Tip of the Day" forum where I actually praise it. It is only your EnterURL product that concerns me.

Now, can you please address some of the concerns I raised about EnterURL and post those FFA links please?

[MakeMeTop]

>...that would be 1974 and there were precious few computers around in those days outside of research labs...

I got my first computer to work from home with for me to write software on in 1976 (I used to have a software company). It had 48KB RAM and a 5MB fixed and 5MB removable hard drive the size of a small car and cost £17,000 - circa $40K - today's money much more (it was a really cheap mini-computer then). I was actually better equipped with hardware than my local college and it made the local newspapers! I can confirm that there wasn't much internet then - but I did get a 300 baud modem in 1979. That was REALLY cool when I eventually found someone to connect to!

Kal - watch those FFAs. I have people submit my site to them on a regular basis and have to keep my eye out for the 'welcome' messages. Usually done out of spite (I suppose) - certainly not to help my rankings.

Last one was by some guy in Australia who then sent an e-mail (via hotmail) telling me to enjoy dropping off the engines. Somehow I don't think this tallies with the benefits Jeff is talking about. Maybe that guy used his service :mad:

[Kal]

Thanks for the "heads up" Barry. I haven't received any of the traditional FFA welcome emails and I don't see any FFA links in my logs, so hopefully Jeff had my site confused with someone else's. But I'll keep an eye out. I'll await Jeff's reply to my previous post...

[Aliloophy]

I am also a subscriber to InternetSeer. The free service has been valuable. We have changed our hosting company because of the downtime that was accumilating each week.

We thank InternetSeer for this.

Regarding the search engine submissions we purchased the service several months ago when they advertised submitting to the top search engines and over 2,500 directories and FFA sites.

Since then they have "upgraded" their service for the same price, and now submit to over 250,000.

We have found that our traffic has increased but are not sure if Enterurl is the reason. IN our submission report they submitted us to 818,371 search engines, directories and FFA sites. We don't know what the FFA sites are but we have not seen any negitive effect.

Since our traffic is growing should we be conerned?

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums Aliloophy! :hi:

Oh yes. Very concerned. There are many of these types of sites on the net that only wish to take your money. Trust me. This program does you NO good and will harm you in the end. It may take awhile but eventually Google and other SE's will find out you are using this and penalize you in a heartbeat. Hope this helps.

[Mel]

Hi aliloophy:

FFA sites are Free for all sites that normally are sites that allow anyone to post your URL on their pages for free. In theory you might get some additional links because of this, except that:

1. Popular FFA sites normally only have a couple of hundred links active at any one time with the newest additions pushing the oldest off the pages. In practice this means your url will hardly ever be there when the spiders come by and thus you get no links.

2. Many search engines do not register links from known FFA sites.

The real reason FFA people are so nice as to allow you to post to their site for free is that they really want your email either to sell or to add to their spam email list.

Sorry but there are no free lunches left

Most people who have their sites submitted to FFA sites can expect to receive thousands of unsolicited commercial and scam emails for the next year or so. This is not by definition spam since you submitted your site to them and agreed to receive email from then and their affiliates as a condition of them posting your URL for a brief period.

It is well to remember that more than 85% of all internet searches are done on just four search engines, so submitting to thousands of search engines is at the very best only going to get some additional traffic from this 5 to 10% of searches on obscure search engines.

Even if you do manage to get some indexing in search engines you will still need to rank highly if you want to get covertible traffic. To do this you will need to optimize your site for higher rankings and develop links from relevant sites.

In your case if you had not previously submitted your site to any major search engines, then just submission to the major SEs might well generate more traffic, and that may be what you are seeing.

What you may want to do is check your ranking with major SEs, then see if you are really getting any benefit from submittal to thousands of search engines.

ONe of our moderators, savvy1, has the only site I have seen in my travels about the web that submits your site to many many real search engines.

There are several methods of geting better ranking and traffic to your site in various threads on these forums or you can visit
here (http://search-engine-optimization.ecommercehosts.com) for a fairly detailed discussion of how to go about it.