Search engine optimization software ant this forum

[I.M.Eminem]

Hello,
This is my first posting to this forum, as I only registered yesterday. Pay no attention to my nickname (and I'll kill you :D ). Just yesterday I first got hold of Eminem's CD so I am still under impression of it.

The point is that I am really new to search engine optimization and unfortunately can't afford hiring an SEO. Now I visit a few forums trying to get to know the black art of optimization and positioning.
Anyway it will take some time to learn main techniques and get to know the things better. For the time being I need a software program that'll help me submit, check my rankings and, of course, make some changes to my pages for purposes of optimization.
Why haven't you got a thread devoted to search engine optimization software (question to Doug or moderator)?
When I go to a site of WebPosition ****, for instance, they promise to take me to top-10's on buying the product, but my friend who bought a copy says it hasn't boosted his traffic at all. My friend competes on tough words and a newbie as well, but still they said it didn't require any special skills to reach the tops.
Do you know any sites, which tell the truth about search engine optimization software? Please post their URL's and you'll help me greatly.
Sorry for long message. Thanks in advance

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums I.M.Eminem! :hi:

No software is going to "take you to the top". None.

You have to learn, study, sweat, and spend along time reading. You came to a good place. Read all the info in here and put it to use.

Software out there is fine, IF you know a bit about optimization. This way you can check it and then tweak things when necessary.

You never need software to submit. It only takes seconds to submit to the 6 places or so. You pay for the two directories, yahoo and looksmart.
Why haven't you got a thread devoted to search engine optimization software (question to Doug or moderator)?
Because there really is no need as you can post questions in the forum that you did. :)

[Hope]

I have to agree completely with Doug. You do not need to spent your money on some software that will not help you. You are better off asking questions here and submitting by hand.

If you would like us to take a look at your site and give you some optimization suggestions, please let us know. We will be happy to do this. We will also be brutally honest, so please don't take offense.

Many of us are experts in the field, so please ask any questions you have.

Heidi

[I.M.Eminem]

Thank you for your replies, but I can only trust you partially. After all you earn your living by optimization services and WebPosition and WebAdd are decreasing your profits.

I looked for sites with comments on software products for search engine optimization and found out that there are no sites that reaveal backdoors of the software.

I found thousands of sites that sell WebPosition and Submission 2000, SubmitWolf, etc., and none of them told me that there was somthing wrong with these programs. On the contrary they assure me their product is the best traffic generator ever.

Why nobody writes about bad points of these programs. Why should I find out that WebPosition, which is claimed to be the best doesn't work thanks to my friend who had bought it before? I'm not so rich Silence is an answer. Not really silence but money.

If you know a site that tells about these programs straight from the shoulder, let me know.

Thanks again!

[Marina]

Hi I.M.Eminem,

Welcome to the forums! :hi:

Doug didn't overstate a bit when he said that you were in a good place. I have to admit that for the most of things I already know I must thank Doug, his moderators and his forums' members :o:.

Back to your problem. Yesterday morning, a guy who I know from the other SE forum asked how I liked his new site. Well, I'm not sure the info of his site is 100% ethical, but some facts are really funny. Just have a look at (url deleted)(Doug will certainly appreciate the domain name :) ).

I had to delele the Url because I do not like the bashing it gives. All software has it's own place in this business. Doug

[JuniorHarris]

Welcome I.M.Eminem!~:hi:

Well I'll tell you the way it is, straight from the shoulder!

First let me say that I DO NOT professionally perform search engine optimization, I simply got involved as part of a much larger technical project. But let me add, that it is possible to perform well on the engines (if not better) without any software at all!~

Sure they all promise top 10 results, but remember they *are* salespeople!~ And any excited salesperson would have you believe their product is the best thing since sliced bread...

Most of these software packages use templates in creation of their "optimized" doorway pages, and though you may be able to create a few customizations to the pages, you have to remember every one else using this software will have similar templates. These "doorway" pages are on the way out, and many engines are getter better at detecting them and excluding them from the index.

There have also been problems running some of the reporting features with some engines, who even will block ip addresses if a certain threshold is reached. There may be some good aspects to some of the software, but it should not be used as a silver bullet, but maybe in conjunction with other techniques.

Personally I would recommend you learn and implement the changes yourself. You have much more control over the coding and could perform equally well to any software with just a little knowledge, and for those that are seasoned, the results far exceed what any automation software could provide!~

If you post your link, I'm sure you will get plenty of starter tips!~;)

[Blue]

Hi I.M.Eminem and welcome to the forums! :hi:

I, too, am nowhere near to being a professional SEO. It was for that exact reason that I came to these forums. I needed to find out what all this SEO stuff was about.

Two points, that I think will help you are:

1.) I would liken the purchase of any of the software packages you mentioned to wanting to be a gardner (without any prior knowledge of gardening) and thinking that "well, if I just go out and buy some Miracle Grow my plants and flowers will sprout up and grow to their fullest potential".

In fact, unless you were very lucky or happened to have the gift of a green thumb, more than likely your plants and flowers will not do as well as you thought.

Why? Because until you take the time to gain specific gardening knowledge, the use of a "tool" like Miracle Grow won't do you any good. You need the foundational basics of gardening to actually grow anything. Further, you'll likely see that you may not need that "tool" at all, because it only works for you because of your newfound gardening knowledge.

2.) Take your own example of your friends experiences as some good advice. They bought the software, but it didn't do them any good. More than likely, this is due to the fact that they had not gained the knowledge to make the software (the "tool") work for them.

No doubt the software is a good product and can enhance your SEO experience, but only after you have the knowledge, the basic foundation, of knowing when and how to use it.

Most of the pro SEO's here probably have some brand of this kind of software and tout it's particular strengths, but they will ALL say that you need to learn SEO techniques before the "tools" of the trade will actually work to your advantage.

Hope this helps, and forgive the long post,

[JuniorHarris]

Very well put Blue!~ :thumb:

[trav]

Hello Eminem and all others

Also just joined the board today after leeching a while.

I think I tried out most available software for SEO and in my opinion they are all useless.

Perhaps in some cases they can offer u a few suggestions (like checking keyword density and such),
but they are not worth the dollars you spend.

Just search around on the net, read and learn.

The time u'd need to read and learn everything about those softwares u'll be better off doing it yourself.

Just my humble opinion

[ihelpyou]

Welcome to the forums trav! :hi:

Happy you came out of "lurk" mode! Stop by often, as you know there is quite a bit of info in here.

I also agree that software can serve it's purpose, but only when one has the basic knowledge.

[JuniorHarris]

Welcome trav!~ :hi:

Tools in the hand of any unskilled worker, is exactly that!~;)

[Blue]

Welcome trav!

:hi:

[trav]

Thanks for the very fast and friendly welcome !

Hope i can contribute some in the future - i am a fast learner and net has been my home for more than 10 years so watch out !

:)

[ihelpyou]

Very cool trav! That kind of experience is priceless.

[I.M.Eminem]

Thank you all, Guys!!! Your comments are helpful indeed. It's difficult to overstate your help.

My best regards go to Marina, as the URL she recommended - (url deleted by Doug) is great for 'freeing my mind'.

That beats everything I ever heard. Amazing and amuzing. Any potential user of these programs should read that. The author writes the way Doug would.

Thanks again. I've become your 'habitue' (I learn French so weird words like that shouldn't frighten you) and I'm going to come back very frequently. Great forum.

[Kal]

Originally posted by I.M.Eminem
Thank you for your replies, but I can only trust you partially. After all you earn your living by optimization services and WebPosition and WebAdd are decreasing your profits.

Hi I.M.Eminem and welcome!

You might like to take a look at this forum thread: http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=884&highlight=WPG
where some of us SEO talk about the benefits of using some features of Web Position ****.

Many of us find WPG to be a useful tool in the SEO toolbox and not "decreasing our profits" as you suggested. In fact, if it wasn't for WPG, I would spend hours per day running ranking checks on my client's sites, time that could be better spent earning $$.

Cheers

[I.M.Eminem]

That guy from (rul deleted by Doug) also says it's ok for submitting to SE's and checking your ranks as well.

However, I need HITS, not PROMISES. Now that I've got a table of SE partnerships by Jim Clay I've realized that submitting is very easy. They also say there is no need to submit to 100,000 SE's and directories.

Of course, you are pros and you are likely to have lots of clients, but me is a humble owner of a new web project, which may interest a limited circle of netizens. I target a few more or less tough words and paying attention to the fact that SE's renew their DB's once a month, I see no reason why I should spend $149 on a so-so application. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?

Thank you Kal, I'll go and read this thread. Buy-bye

;)

[Susan Goodson]

I agree with Blue, seo software should only be viewed as a tool, not a replacement for independent research and basic knowledge. No software, including WebPosition **** is going to place you automatically in the search engines. It takes patience, work, and research. All the software can do, and all ours claims to do is automate the processes that can be automated to save you time and effort in launching your site into the top ranks of the search engines.

[ihelpyou]

Reading that site again, i.m. emminent, I cannot agree with the bashing it is giving the software companies. While I do agree that software should maybe change their marketing hype a little bit, it is UP TO THE USER to check things out. It is very easy for anyone to do research on anything or anybody. The user has to take some responsibility. This goes for ANYTHING you are buying online.

Whether it is research on what SEO you might use to help you or research on any product,,.... the research SHOULD BE done.

WPG has it's place in this business. ALL software does. It does NOT compete with me in any way, shape or form. Anyone who thinks that they can achieve top ranks with little knowledge at all of the search engines is very niave. The software is only as good as the user. WPG can help anyone including any SEO who uses it. It can be used for checks and balances, for reporting, for the basics of SEO.

To achieve top ranks requires blood, sweat and tears. Until one has at least 2 to 3 years experience with the search engines, it is very difficult.

My view on that site has dimmed a bunch. I know that WPG could do better on the sales hype, but it certainly does not deserve any bashing. Software is just that...... SOFTWARE. A newbie who does not wish to learn on their own and desires good ranks immediately, should cough up a bunch more money and hire a professional.

Of course, this is in my opinion.

[Mel]

Hi I.M. Eminem:

As you can see by now most of us here agree that you will not get high rankings by using software alone.Having said that you will also find that most of the professional SEOs use one piece of software or another daily, usually to check rankings, since this is a job suited to automation. I also use WPGs page critic feature as a handy way to get an instant detailed comparasion of the top five competing pages for a particular keyword.

I find that the cost of WPG is well worth it to me for those features that I use even though I don't use all of them.